milutim 0 #1 July 8, 2004 I had my first jump (tandem) on Monday. My instructor had over 7000 jumps and about 9 malfunctions. Most of his jumps had been tandems, which I am told have higher malfunction rates (1 in 400). I concluded that this was a good sign, since an average tandem instructor should have-- based on this statistic-- twice as many malfunctions by 7000. I also felt it was a good sign that he had experienced 9, since he would therefore not panic if it happened again. is this correct logic? what can i do to maximize safety on tandems? it seems that everything is pretty much beyond my control. what sorts of questions should i be asking when searching for a competent, qualified instructor? what should i be looking for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malev 0 #2 July 8, 2004 Quotewhat can i do to maximize safety on tandems? it seems that everything is pretty much beyond my control. First of all - chill. The chances of having a malfunction on a tandem jump you do are slim - and in the extremely rare event that it does happen, the instructor is highly experienced and trained to handle the situation. Quotewhat can i do to maximize safety on tandems? it seems that everything is pretty much beyond my control. To maximise safety, simply do what your instructor tells you in the pre-tandem brief. And then, relax - and have fun! Its what it is all about! Quotewhat sorts of questions should i be asking when searching for a competent, qualified instructor? what should i be looking for? Why not consider doing an AFF course and learning to skydive yourself? Not only will you learn much more about the sport, the gear and how to handle yourself under various situations - you'll also get to jump without being strapped to someone, and start to progress in the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #3 July 8, 2004 QuoteI had my first jump (tandem) on Monday. My instructor had over 7000 jumps and about 9 malfunctions. Most of his jumps had been tandems, which I am told have higher malfunction rates (1 in 400). The tandem malfunction rate seems to vary between about 1:300 and 1:1,000. Some people do much better than others. Several of the manufacturers have found the malfunction rate is lowest for those instructors that pack their own main parachutes, and highest at very busy drop zones that use other people to pack their parachutes. My personal feeling is that one malfunction every 400 jumps is a bit too high, and although not beyond industry standards, could certainly be lower. I'll probably be slammed by others who will claim that "sh*t happens" and we shouldn't worry about malfunctions, but I always see those simple malfunctions as a part of an accident chain. Sh*t doesn't just happen, we invite it to happen. If we can reduce malfunctions, we can reduce injuries and fatalities. There are lots of things you can do when selecting a drop zone or instructor to improve your training and safety. Asking questions of several drop zones and then comparing answers is the first. Get a feel for each drop zone, and select the DZ that seems best by both measured parameters and vibe. Do some research. If you are in the United States, I actually wrote a book for beginners like you that explains how to find drop zones, and how to compare them. It offers tons of information to make the decision process simple. The book is called "JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy" and it available from many US domestic booksellers, including Amazon.com. Click on the link below my name for the Amazon listing. Another great book is called "Parachuting: The Skydiver's Handbook," also available from many booksellers and Amazon. Either book will help you understand the sport a bit better. You can also learn a bit from the USPA web site at: http://www.uspa.org/about/index.htm#learn Blue Skies,Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
milutim 0 #4 July 9, 2004 Tom, Thanks for the response. That's just the kind of info I was looking for. Regards, Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #5 July 9, 2004 Dude, get a, you dont go researching tandem masters and interviewing them. They are all licensed or would not be taking you up. Gett to an aff course and learn it yourself because the price of ten tandems in my country and you will be a licensed skydiver, then jumps will only cost you a tenth of the price of a tandem. If you have a malfunction, well you have a malfunction. It's good to be nevous, you will be more aware but also remember you are falling out of a plane at 120mph.......You dont want to have malfunctions stuck on your mind, you want to have the thought of a malfunction in the back of your mind but your emergency procedures grilled to your brain. On my 60th jump i had a mal....i remember being extremley calm because when i realised i was in trouble(wrapped up in my lines from being stuck on the door handle) I thought well now is the time to do the second part of what i was taught during my aff course. I am actually happy i have had a malfunction, because now i have experienced that. The reason i say dont have malfunctions on your mind full time is because i did after my first mal....This lead to my 68th jump when my end cells did not open, because i had mal's stuck on my mind i thought i had to cut away....boy was i wrong when the media and ambulances turned up to me getting a blasting from my cso. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #6 July 9, 2004 Sounds like you got a good tandem instructor, but he should fire his packer. First generation tandem main parachutes (made of F-111 fabric) had a poor malfunction rate. The malfunction rate got even worse when they were packed sloppily. Fortunately, modern tandem canopies (made of ZP fabric) are far more tolerant of sloppy packing. For example, I had 14 malfunctions (bad enough that I needed a reserve) on first generation tandems, but only minor problems with current generation tandems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
milutim 0 #7 July 9, 2004 skygod... i guess with your 100+ jumps you don't need to ask questions any more. and what's with "get a life"? i'm trying to keep mine. that's what i thought this website was for. wondering about the average rate of malfunctions for tandems seems to me to be reasonable and responsible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #8 July 9, 2004 no way, no skygod here mate...sorry about the get a life...i dont know where that came from. I ask questions all the time, i just dont think you should be asking a tandem master on your first jump about his malfunctions. I guess curious is good but dont get to excited about how often you should have a mal. learn about them but dman man if you go around asking people about how malfunctions occur it is going to be on your mind all the time. The one thing about skydiving that is extremley important is TO THINK POSITIVE. If you keep thinking about malfunctions and wondering how often they happen you are going to be having one. About the 100+ jumps comment, well that would be me saving my life 100+ times. That would be me pulling at my canopy 100+ times, That would be me paying about 15,000dollars towards a sport i love, that would be me showing a shit load of commitment. You think i dont ask questions? You have just done a tandem, i belive the best thing for you to do if you want to get into skydiving is to go to your local dz and start an aff course, not sitting in this forum asking questions about malfunctions when you probably wouldn't have a clue about the many different ways a mal can occur. I am happy you are interested, but here is a tip, I can not teach you anything but this. If you want to learn to skydive hold of on all the questions in the forums about the technical aspects of skydiving until you have a aff jumpmaster training you....the reason is, you WILL learn alot in these forums, i learn new things every day in here, but if you turn up to a dz and start telling your aff jumpmaster all that you have learnt in here brfore day 1 of the course it will piss him off. He is there teach you his way not the way you learnt on the internet. LOOK, you are probably going to take all of what i have said the wrong way but, i love skydiving and it is the best thing in the world, You need to stop paying for tandems and get yourself in a classroom with someone who gets paid to teach you and takes responsibility of you. You will notice in these forums it is all debates and opinions, it is knowhere for you to be leaning about malfunctions until you have at least been shown pics of mals and what sort they are and how they can happen. I am not a instrutor other than formation coach but i do live on a dropzone and have for the last 3 years. I have seen the way wuffos are treated when they turn up to learn already thinking they know everything. Learn the sport and always be nervous but always think positive! if your offended by this, i am sorry but i DO wish you all the best and blue skies with little clouds! BIGWAY. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #9 July 10, 2004 Quote You have just done a tandem, i belive the best thing for you to do if you want to get into skydiving is to go to your local dz and start an aff course, not sitting in this forum asking questions about malfunctions when you probably wouldn't have a clue about the many different ways a mal can occur. Relax dude - you'll give yourself a hernia! This is a forum for questions... don't bite the poor guy's head off! Peace. *************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #10 July 12, 2004 Quote i just dont think you should be asking a tandem master on your first jump about his malfunctions. I see people asking this all the time... none of the tandum masters I've been around seem to have a problem answering this sort of question. I inquired to one of the most senior people at my DZ about Malfunctions he pointed out that there were 2 kinds of skydivers (1) those that have had malfucntions and (2) those that will... and then told me that every time he throws his pilot chute arches then he looks up checks his main then proceeds to go through cutaway procedures find handles, pull, pull arch... check... so that its ingrained every time... don't worry about it... learn every thing you can... perhaps talk to a rigger about the packing of a reserve... the Tandum master certainly is... Tandum progression is a great way to get into the sport of skydiving it gives someone the chance to learn the mechanics of skydiving, basic freefall techniques, altitude awareness and such before jumping in feet first to the skydiving world (some people like to stick their toe in the water to check the temperature before jumping in...and there is nothing wrong with that.) Scott Most importantly have fun... oh, I did AFF but I've spoken to Tandum students too... and they have just as much fun... sorry for the long windedness...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rocketdog 0 #11 July 12, 2004 Quoteyou dont go researching tandem masters and interviewing them. They are all licensed or would not be taking you up. i TOTALLY disagree.... in fact, i give milutim props for looking into skydiving & becoming familiar with the obvious truth: accidents happen. yes, tandem instructors are licensed but that does not mean that EVERY tandem instructor has kept current with skydiving/safety issues. milutim, in my opinion the most important thing to do (as the student) in freefall is relax -- which will help with your body position. after the canopy is open, i think you would still want to relax & help flare .... that's about all i can think of off the top of my head *have fun!* ~hollywood see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
milutim 0 #12 July 13, 2004 bigway, thanks for the clarification. i'm kind of touchy about being conditioned into not asking questions, however silly or uptight they may seem. all questions are the right questions for me at this point. no such thing as a stupid question when a.) you don't know anything and b.) you're falling through space at 120 mph. n'est-ce pas? i saw a jumper on sunday with a t-shirt that said "invincible". you'll never catch me wearing a shirt like that, but that doesn't mean i'm not enjoying myself up there. i had my second jump on sunday and am working through a certification course so i will probably be going through this whole program soon enough. thanks everyone who responded for all of the positive reinforcement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
