sight_burner 0 #1 January 27, 2005 What do you guys think about the diploma course offered in new zealand good deal bad deal???. And are there any course graduates who might have something to say??. :} I don't care about fame I just want people to know my name qote ( Andrew Cebuhar) the thread is dead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nael 0 #2 January 27, 2005 Do a search of the forums, this has been discussed before a few times so I'm sure all the info you need is there. www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 January 27, 2005 If you've got that much money to spend I have a pen and a peice of paper.......er....a diploma for you I mean.......---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #4 January 27, 2005 Check out this link for similar package but better options that is designed for the international student wanting to learn in new zealand, here you are offered AFF and more coach jumps as well is it being NZ $5000 cheaper with free accomodation and everything one-on-one. international_students .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #5 January 27, 2005 So by the end of 170 jumps you are good enough a camera flyer to be a professional videographer? Didn't realise it was that easy. Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #6 January 27, 2005 Well in my opinion, not an opinion of an instructor, so please do not flame me for my opinion......I did the diploma course in christchurch, and at the end of it you are on your way to be a tandem videographer. Now what our course is doing is the same thing but we are doing an introduction into photography and not telling you that you are now a cameraman. Christchurch does not say you are either. But please with out just arguing for the sake of it please read what i am about to say with an open mind.... On our course what we are doing is getting you up to a standard of flying where you can fly with a camera on your head and produce a film that could be looked at as a good piece of work. In new zealand you must have 200 jumps before you can film or fly with a tandem, now those are the rules. So what we are doing is giving you some camera experience when our instructors feel you are ready, they way this works is when you reach a suitable standard you will then do some jumps with a empty sidewinder camera helmet to get use to the different weight in the helmet and progress to putting the video camera in the d-box. Once you are here and have gotten use to this you then may have the chance with us to progress to flying with a stills camera as well. Now our course goes to 170 jumps, in new zealand you only need 200 jumps to fly relative or film a tandem....now to your question, are you good enough to film tandems at theis level? well i guess it depends on what you are trained for and what the rules of your countries parachute federation is? I dont think everyone can get to this stage on 200 jumps but if this is what you are focusing on well maybe. Kind of goes with freeflying and 8-way formations, are you good enough to learn freeflying on 50 jumps? well i would think not but some people do. I hope this answers your question and i hope that you realise we do make this as safe as we can, and do progress you as we do make sure you get familiar with the extra weights and cameras before you fly with tandems. We do not let you gfy with tandems as you do not have enough jumps until you reach 200 jumps by our law and we only do the course to 170 jumps., we just let you get a camera on your head and practise filming a coach falling down the tube so to speak. I think it is carried out in a very safe manner and we abide by the regulations of our federation here in new zealand. I might add that alot of jumpers in new zealand are flying cameras at this stage and New Zealand has an extremley safe reputation in skydiving and it goes to show that in our incident report. I do nto think we have a tandem fatality, and the last fatality we had in skydiving to my knowledge was a student at a dz somewhere in NZ that did a low turn about 4 years ago. In short, Yes i think it is safe to fly camera with 170 jumps so long as you are trained for this disciplin, just like being trained for any other disciplin. Though i do not at all think it is right to be filming tandems at this level. This is why our course is called a "professional skydiver TRAINING course" and not a"Diploma in commercial skydiving" .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spencer 0 #7 January 29, 2005 How long has this course been going, is it government funded??. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #8 January 29, 2005 No it is not government funded as no more private institutes in new zealand can become. It has offically been running with our first students for three months. Though we were developing it with 4 students last year who are now employed at the dz as a packer and as a cameraman. It is not a 'school' such to speak, it is more a sport skydivers dropzone, these are quite rare in nz. What we are trying to do is give students theses packages for the price of what the jumps would usually cost plus we are trowing in some lectures from our DZO who is a Captain for air new zealand, he would lecture meteorology. One of our coaches in the new zealand 4-way team and he is our 'main' lecturer on ground training and AFF and coach jumps. We have a Freefly coach who owns the NZFreefly school who will give lectures on freeflying. People there at the moment are quite lucky as Wendy Smith has been there for the last month and will be there for a couple of more weeks. So it is more a dz where we are trying to appeal to students. There is another dropzone in new zealand doing the diploma, now this is government funded for new zealand students and is a good thing for the Kiwi students but they also have international jumpers that have to pay alot more than the kiwi. What we are doing is making this course to appeal to the overseas student as we offer the free accommodation along with making it $3000-$5000 cheaper than other options you have here. I would like to see UK students, the reason is because New Zealands main industry is tourism and everyone comes over and does a tandem and some learn AFF. Now in the UK to do AFF, i think it is £1800uk pounds. For that price you can fly to new zealand via thailand and oz return and do the AFF course(25 jumps) and accommodation. Now how can that be a bad thing? .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spencer 0 #9 January 29, 2005 The course your running seems to be a foot in door to maybe carrying on and one day getting payed to jump ie camera flying. I wonder what the chances of getting employment in Queenstown, christchurch, rotorua,Kaikoura, after doing your course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #10 January 29, 2005 I think their would not be any chance at all after coming straight off our course as Christchurch do a 'diploma in commercial skydiving' and they send their students off for three months unpaid work experience that can then lead to full time work. It is very funny you mention those dropzones as queenstown, christchurch, rotorua, kaikoura are all owned or part owned by Steve Smith and Kirsty Smith who are the directors of the Diploma course. I imagine you work for them. Anyhow, might i add that our course is a 'Package deal', that is designed for international students, who intend going back to their own country, it is not designed for you to get a job in new zealand, it is not designed for you to get work through us, it is a skydiving course that gives you an affordable start to get your jumps up and have some education into the work place of a dropzone.. International students do not get visas through us, nor do we help them get visas. QuoteI wonder what the chances of getting employment in Queenstown, christchurch, rotorua,Kaikoura, after doing your course. What are you trying to get at? .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spencer 0 #11 January 29, 2005 The course you are advertising is a Professional skydiving course. I thought a professional person was someone who gets paid, as apposed to an amatuer sports person. As your DZ's take free student labour from Christchurch parachute school, I was wondering (Visa's aside) what chance your 'professionals' would have of gaining employment at one of the bigger tandem operations in NZ such as Christchurch, Rotura, Queenstown etc ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #12 January 29, 2005 they would not have a great chance at other places unless they sort it out on their own and have the required visas, they would be just the same as anyone else with 170 jumps. Our course may be named wrong but it does say that it is a course that trains you to work as a proffessional. i will fix that name as soon as i get home. I must say to you that our DZ does not take free student Labour from the Christchurch Parachute School. Yes it use to, that has stopped. I must also add that i was free labour at the dropzone that i am now paid a yearly salary at, as was 2 other jumpers. One of those other jumpers has up until recently been a paid packer and a paid camera man. We had another student the next year but it seems that they were not right to continue at our dropzone with full time employment. I do not agree with the 3 months work experience'unpaid' from the diploma school but it seems to work well and most of the new zealanders get offered jobs at the end of it, though our package that we are talking abbout is for international students, these people can not get work in New Zealand unless they have visas and sort it out themselves. You are comparing us to the diploma in CHCH, we are not that. We are not a big tandemm operation as we focus mainly on AFF and freeflying. Sure we have tandems to keep us afloat but this is about getting more people in the sport and not Tandems. i note that the word Professional needs to and will be changed. I see it gives a false impression but anyone who enquires will not be lead astry as i am sure all my lengthy posts here have been in detail and am thinking that you are just trying to wind me up. The package we offer is listed under the title, that is all we offer apart from our other packages. If someone wants employment afterwards they need to do what anyonelse needs to do to get employment. We do not take free student labour we do not give jobs out, we do not give visas out. what you get is what you read on the package. It is a professional skydiving package to train people to the workings on a dropzone, how a dropzone operates, it is not a package that instantly makes you a professional. It is a training package to becoming a professional. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spencer 0 #13 January 29, 2005 Sorry if I have offended you in anyway. I'm not trying to wind you up. You sound like you've put alot of effort and time into what your doing. Have you been jumping in the UK, and how do you find our DZ's. Have you been able to enrole anyone from here on your course. Did you do the diploma course and how did you get on , did you get the diploma at the end. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #14 January 30, 2005 Cool... no i never got the diploma, i had 50jumps taken off me because i was sick for a month, was not in the right state of mind to jump after a big break up and on top of that had asthma problems. So i lost 4 jumps for everyday i was not there as you are only allowed 5 sick days off before they start deducting jumps from your course fees. Somtething like that anyway. On top of that, i was not happy with my work experience placement as it was a new dropzone that did only 10 tandems in 3 weeks i was there so i left and went and got paid to work where i work now. To me the 'Diploma' means nothing what soever in skydiving i feel it is a word that helps you to get the government support and student loans, that is a good thing. But the certificate at the end means nothing in the skydiving world as you would know. What we are doing if a similar thing to these people but in a more relaxed way where you have no risk of losing any money as we will refund what ever you do not do, you do the jumps at your own pace on your own time, and we are making it more affordable for the international people and giving you your own single room on the DZ with the entire course being a one-on-one programme. On top of this the instructors are people who just came first in nearly every single event at the new zealand nationals this year and last year. I have enrolled three people here from the UK last year and they are all currently there now and one is working as a packer for us at the moment while he gets his jumps done. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccurley 1 #15 January 30, 2005 Hi Bigway Just a point on the instructors you mention. Great guys and talented skydivers. And having been an instructor myself in the past I feel the whole team has not only the skills, but the personality and desire to to be able to pass those skills on to new or less experianced jumpers. I just wouldn't use winning the NZ Nationals as a referance since the event is so small in comparison to even monthly club meets elsewere. Our nationals are a great event for all the locals and ocasional travelling jumping, but on the internatioanl scale of competition we must have one of the smallest in the world.Watch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dangerboy66 0 #16 May 1, 2006 Hey Biggay how's it going Bro?Dude the course you were on was the first one and had teething problems as all new things do,but now Geoff Mundy has taken over things are alot different.If you cant learn off Geoff then you're not going to learn off anyone he's a legend and a top bloke too.So to put the record straight on this argument for and against the diploma course I'd say if you are starting out in skydiving and want to learn from the best then do it,it's well run and organised and you're going to learn a hell of a lot from Geoff.Of course it's not going to be for everyone but what is?So anyone who has scrapped the idea of doing this diploma because of the comments on here think again and find out some more about it before you say no.You have your own minds dont be sheep!Beers on you Geoff......mines a Heiny!only the good die young.....i'm gonna live forever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #17 May 1, 2006 Hey Shaun, I just did not like the way it is set up financially and the way that there is no way to get money back on missing jumps and how they will take jumps from you for any reason they can think of. I have been told a lot about Geoff Mundy and how the training he provides Is first class. This has got to be good for the course having him there. I hear he has come up with another way of teaching AFF, which from the videos i have seen of students seems to teach alot more before the student heads out 'to the big world' on their own. I jump alot with a uk jumper who was trained by Geoff and he praises him everytime the course is mentioned. I have seen first hand the quality of skydiving thast is coming out of this course, i feel the students on it come out knowing alot and have a lot of respect for safety. This was never an issue. The issue has always been the administrative way things are done and how they can deduct jumps from you for being late etc. As i said, they told me to get a medical certificate after the dzso said i should not be jumping. I got a medical certificate and then they said you are only allowed 5 days off in the contract so they took 30 jumps of me that were already paid for. That is unfair and wrong. Shaun, i would never put down the safety of any skydiving in new zealand as i think NZ is a fantastic place learn. Geoff is in charge of all AFF programmes through nz and i commend the job he does and the dedication he has and puts towards students in NZ. He has got to be a plus for the course. But i bet you were suprised on how many jumps you get are hop'n'pops and i bet you are also suprised that their turbine never seems to be running for you guys and alot of your jumps are from under 10,000 feet. The money you pay on that course is a rip off. For a kiwi doing it it is subsidised by the government by $5000 but for a foreigner it is $15,000NZD. That my friend is very expensive, any other dropzone will be $30 a slot to 13-14000 feet. you guys pay something around $50 a slot and hardly ever get to altitude. Any way Shaun, good luck see you when you get back, sorry to get you in trouble. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Acoisa 0 #18 May 3, 2006 Quote I have been told a lot about Geoff Mundy and how the training he provides Is first class. This has got to be good for the course having him there. I hear he has come up with another way of teaching AFF, which from the videos i have seen of students seems to teach alot more before the student heads out 'to the big world' on their own. I jump alot with a uk jumper who was trained by Geoff and he praises him everytime the course is mentioned. I have seen first hand the quality of skydiving thast is coming out of this course, i feel the students on it come out knowing alot and have a lot of respect for safety. Just wondering... What does Geoff do differently, why is his method better/safer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #19 May 3, 2006 I do not have first hand knowledge on this but from the students videos i have seen from his revamped AFF course is I think a 16 stage course. It also involves only one instructor, might be two instructors for the first level though. It is very different and am very suprised this has not been discussed on these forums yet. I am not one to comment on what is better and safer in regards to AFF For that I think you should maybe email the school and ask for a video of their AFF course as it is very interesting. As far as i know, Geoff is in charge of the student training in New Zealand and is a very respected man in the skydiving community from his experience. Sorry I can not say more but i was asked to apologise as someone took my differences with the administration of this course thinking that i was putting down Geoff and his training methods/safety of the course. My last post was to make it clear that in no way am i putting down the safety and instruction of the skydiving that is part of of this course. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dangerboy66 0 #20 July 8, 2006 I went on the course on 155 jumps and the money it cost in my opinion was well spent and the safety aspect of the course really opened my eyes,it's top class.I have also flown with alot of the Dudes from previous courses and they fooookin rock.Yes the course with Geoff Mundy's coaching is the best you can get and I'd recommend it to anyone and the job prospects at the end are just amazing with a choice of Dropzones in the world to suit anyone.The new AFF training in New Zealand is called ACCELER8(or something very similar!)and is superb.....so good I've got my 16 year old lad over here doing his as I think it's the best there is and teaches so much more than other AFF courses in other countries and the scenery you get to jump over is fuckin amazing......especially upside down.......not so good on your belly tho h he!! only the good die young.....i'm gonna live forever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #21 July 9, 2006 See you at the WFFC dude! One week to go. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meistwer 0 #22 July 10, 2006 QuoteWell in my opinion, not an opinion of an instructor, so please do not flame me for my opinion" We are always gona flame you for your opinion...get out of this forums!!! Btw, nice web site for the Krew, well done. Blue ones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #23 July 10, 2006 you coming to the dropzone this weekend? Have not seen you there for a few weekends. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meistwer 0 #24 July 11, 2006 Hi dude, How's it going? I wont go this weekend either, Ive benn jumping in France. Less headache than jumping here. Over there is more fun, I don't have the problems that I have in the UK about FF or jumping with other people. I'm actually going back on the Friday 18th next month and coming back on Sunday 20th by Eurostar if you fancy coming, jumps are for about 15 quid. It'd be cool to go together. The NZ offer for 200 jumps seems really good, I've read it from the links that you've posted. I think I gonna save the money and go over there the next year for 2 months. Blue ones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miss3sixty 0 #25 July 13, 2006 Hey danger!! I agree, the XLRB programme worked for me!! It was great to get that intro into free-flying and RW that nomal AFF courses dont usually offer. I will be at the DZ tomorrow so hopefully see you and meet your son before you go. Ive not jumped for a month but now have full thermal underwear and a balaclava so no excuses! bet you cannot wait for the gig one!! Rach x xMiss3sixty Skydiving- it has its ups and downs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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