a mark of disrespect??

[Mike111 0]

Something has struck and has rather incensed me- while browsing some skydiving websites they claim it to be safe as anything and that if someone dies its thewir fault - agreed pilot error is a huge cause of accidents.

Furthermore, eveyr DZ needs to attract customers and by appearing safe is a good way of doing so - no problem at all since many remind the customer that it is potentially dangerous.

But the big problem for me is that some say it is safe... which implies that all those who have died have been silly and made a mistake - something we are all capable of doing.

IMHO that is disrespectful when they blast it as safe as houses, since by saying it si risky, not only are you being fair to the customer.. btu achknowledging that mistakes were made in demanding circumstances.

Maybe its just me... i dunno.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Zig on Skydiving and the word "safe"...

Personally, I try to not use the word "safe" when talking about skydiving.

You can prove pretty much anything you want with statistics and one of the ones that is a favorite of a lot of DZOs / Student Checker-iners / Phone answering folk is, "The drive too and from the DZ is more dangerous."

The thing with skydiving is it can be pretty binary; it goes really well most of the time, but if it goes badly, it can get really bad really quick.

How does that saying about aviation go? Aviation isn't inheriently dangerous, its just that, even more so then the sea, it is unforgiving of any inattention, incapacity or neglect.

Having worked arround and tested miltary aircraft for most of my adult life AND been around skydiving for awhiles now... I've learned that any incident or mishap is comprised of a chain of events that can be shown in retrospect (mishap investigation). Usually that chain will consist of 3 or 4 events, maybe just 2... some would argue that in skydiving, the first link in that chain is stepping off the aircraft itself. The goal is to develop good habbits that keeps that chain from building on you where the outcome is "serious injury or DEATH!"

While I'll say that no one "deserves" to die skydiving, at the same time it is not un-real to point out in an incident a person's inattention, incapacity or neglect that contributed to building that chain that lead to their incident (serious injury or death). Someone doing everything right and still being killed is rare, I know of one myself, but its still rare.

... I'm not so sure its a sign of "disrespect" for DZs to use the word "safe" when it comes to promoting jumping... they ceratinly wouldn't attract as many customers if they were all "Black Deathy" about it on their websites and in advertisements, now would they?

[basejumper9 0]

I couldn't agree with you more! This has been an ongoing issue in my homestate. There are two dz's here in Hawaii. One of them states in all their ads to tourists "Impeccable safety record".

This is the DZ that had ALL 3 of their planes grounded in one week's time due to.... you figure it out:

Day 1: Hot section in Caravan blows at 6K
4 days later: 206 blows a rod at 2K
2 days later: 182 is gounded with a bad alternator

YES, the FAA was called. NO, nobody was injured.

BUT, would you call this "Impeccable"?

In January of this year, this is the same DZ that had a double tandem fatality. Our dear friend MM and his tandem passenger drowned just offshore the DZ. While the coronor's reports said the cause of death was drowning, those of us who knew MM KNOW that something must've happened to him (medically) which incapacitated him to the point he was not able to turn his fully functional canopy into the LZ.

I guess you could call this pilot error.... doesn't even matter. No, it isn't the drop zone's fault that a medical emergency incapacitated our friend. What bothers me is that this particular DZ STILL LIES stating that they have an "Impeccable safety record". They also lie stating that they are USPA DZ when in fact they are NOT.

WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THE BLATANT LIES THAT A DZ PUTS OUT THERE TO THE UNSUSPECTING COMMUNITY???

I thank my lucky stars that I survived my first few jumps, when I didn't know any better.... when I didn't know what questions to ask.

It's sad that drop zones can pretty much get away with saying whatever they want.

“Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down.”
~ Kobi Yamada

[bob.dino 0]

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WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THE BLATANT LIES THAT A DZ PUTS OUT THERE TO THE UNSUSPECTING COMMUNITY???

Does the USA have an equivalent of the UK's Advertising Standards Authority or Trading Standards? These are the bodies that regulate advertising and business conduct, and they're also the people you go to when you believe a business is lying to potential customers.

[Eule 0]

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Does the USA have an equivalent of the UK's Advertising Standards Authority or Trading Standards?

The Federal Trade Commission is most likely the equivalent body in the US. They do seem to do some good, or at least cause sellers of dodgy products to tone down their claims a bit. I'm not sure what their record is for service businesses like dropzones, though.

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

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[slug 1]

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Does the USA have an equivalent of the UK's Advertising Standards Authority or Trading Standards?

The Federal Trade Commission is most likely the equivalent body in the US. They do seem to do some good, or at least cause sellers of dodgy products to tone down their claims a bit. I'm not sure what their record is for service businesses like dropzones, though.

Eule

Most of these DZ's carry the USPA seal of approval on thie home page. So If USPA says so......

IMO The DZ's websight should contain a copy of their waiver. So there aren't any surprises when the package Tandem arrives at the DZ all excited to skydive and has to sign the waiver before they can get on the plane.

Think $$$$$, bait and switch, Santa clause and the easter rabbit.

Have A nice day.

R.I.P.

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