pilotdave 0 #27 November 30, 2006 There was a fatality the day of my first jump at a nearby DZ. (October 25, 1998) From skydivingfatalities.info: "The deceased intentionally stalled his canopy several times as he had planned to do (to give a good show). At around 1000', on his 3rd stall, he let the brakes up very quickly to end the stall, causing the canopy to dive radically while the re-inflation shock jerked him upward, and into the lines of the diving canopy. His feet became tangled with the line groups and a violent spin began. Around 500' his reserve pilot chute was deployed, but immediately entangled the main. He streamered (spiraled) in and impacted head first into an asphalt road. The reserve was found out, but never had time to fully inflate. The cutaway handle and reserve were both found nearby." Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #28 November 30, 2006 I have started flying sqare canopies in year 2000. My first and favorite canopy was a PTCH11, 9 cell 300+ sqft F111 canopy. I had lots of direct bag static line jumps from 1200-1500m I was told to play and stall my canopy all posible way over 600-800m, so in safe altitude. I had the same question about falling into the canopy. I was told that a full loop should not be possilbe with a skydiving canopy. If it is possible that canopy should be grounded and redesigned with shorter lines. BTW do you know if that can be done with a paraglider? I don't think that falling to our own canopy is a real issue with todays all around or highly loaded canopies. It is not ususal to play so abrupt with a canopy. So if you play hard and uload your canopy, lines you should not what you are doing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #29 November 30, 2006 Brian Germain directly contradicts you in his book, and really emphasizes the necessity of keeping good line tension for safe canopy piloting. If he thinks I can fall into my canopy and kill myself, I am going to take his word for it!!! I have tons of fun with my canopy up high, but I don't go around yanking the toggles mindlessly."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sraja 0 #30 November 30, 2006 QuoteJust kidding about the tight legstraps, but I'm guessing you can't picture this. Although very briefly upside down, I end upright, sitting on top the slider, with no weight in the harness. Anyway, I recommend you and Pops don't try this manuver... From skydivingfatalities.info QuoteDescription: This is updated information for the fatality on Sat. July 4 '98.The formal investigation was completed Wednesday July 8 '98 by the FAA,LaSalle County Sheriff, and an S&TA Equipment:Main Triathlon 170 (7 cell), Reserve Raven 2 with RSL in place and no AAD, Container Javelin J4, Chest mount Alt. and Jack knife (still in place), Collapsible slider. The jumper was found approximately 400 yards from where he had opened withboth brakes off and the slider had been collapsed.This indicates that the jumper was conscious, aware, and in control of his canopy after opening.From witness reports he had exited from 13,000 feet with 6 other jumpers onan organized dive.After a few failed attempts to dock with the others he tracked away andpulled at approx. 3,000 feet.An S&TA saw the jumper spiral for the last 200 feet before impact. He was found with his right foot entangled in the right risers.The main canopy was inspected and found in good condition.The jumper had over 500 jumps most of which were successful CReW jumps.From his experience, body position, and extreme spiraling action, it is believed that once he had flown back to the airport he had attempted to invert himself in the harness, perhaps attempting a handstand on top of his slider, while steering wit his foot in the cascades of the suspension lines. During this maneuver, he likely entangled his right foot in the risers/lines forcing a normally docile canopy into an extreme spiral.This radical of a spin under this type of canopy cannot be achieved with any kind of toggle action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #31 November 30, 2006 Quote Brian Germain directly contradicts you in his book, and really emphasizes the necessity of keeping good line tension for safe canopy piloting. So? Did he write that you have to fly all canopies exact same way? I have and read his great book anyway. There are some things I did and I still would do on a big, 260+ sqft canopy with a spring loaded PC, but would not try with any of mine with kill-line collapsible PC. QuoteI have tons of fun with my canopy up high, but I don't go around yanking the toggles mindlessly. That looks like a good point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #32 November 30, 2006 QuoteQuote Brian Germain directly contradicts you in his book, and really emphasizes the necessity of keeping good line tension for safe canopy piloting. So? Did he write that you have to fly all canopies exact same way? I have and read his great book anyway. There are some things I did and I still would do on a big, 260+ sqft canopy with a spring loaded PC, but would not try with any of mine with kill-line collapsible PC. While that is all well and good, you are making the statement that with a modern canopy you can't fall into it!!! I am not trying to give you a hard time, but I think it is dangerous to tell new jumpers, including myself that it isn't possible. You can fall into your canopy, it is something that modern canopys are capable of, and it is a direct result of how you pilot them."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #33 November 30, 2006 QuoteWhile that is all well and good, you are making the statement that with a modern canopy you can't fall into it!!! I am not trying to give you a hard time, but I think it is dangerous to tell new jumpers, including myself that it isn't possible. Oh, You should know that, because you read it in a book.... QuoteYou can fall into your canopy, it is something that modern canopys are capable of, and it is a direct result of how you pilot them. Are you going to demonstrate? Your chances are lot bigger to spun up or make a lineover on your canopy than fall into. You can not even stall most of the canopies with toggles without wrapping break lines on your fist. I could see the horizont over my canopy after an abrupt stall, but it is still far away from falling into it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #34 December 1, 2006 QuoteQuoteJust kidding about the tight legstraps, but I'm guessing you can't picture this. Although very briefly upside down, I end upright, sitting on top the slider, with no weight in the harness. Anyway, I recommend you and Pops don't try this manuver... From skydivingfatalities.info QuoteDescription: This is updated information for the fatality on Sat. July 4 '98.The formal investigation was completed Wednesday July 8 '98 by the FAA,LaSalle County Sheriff, and an S&TA Equipment:Main Triathlon 170 (7 cell), Reserve Raven 2 with RSL in place and no AAD, Container Javelin J4, Chest mount Alt. and Jack knife (still in place), Collapsible slider. The jumper was found approximately 400 yards from where he had opened withboth brakes off and the slider had been collapsed.This indicates that the jumper was conscious, aware, and in control of his canopy after opening.From witness reports he had exited from 13,000 feet with 6 other jumpers onan organized dive.After a few failed attempts to dock with the others he tracked away andpulled at approx. 3,000 feet.An S&TA saw the jumper spiral for the last 200 feet before impact. He was found with his right foot entangled in the right risers.The main canopy was inspected and found in good condition.The jumper had over 500 jumps most of which were successful CReW jumps.From his experience, body position, and extreme spiraling action, it is believed that once he had flown back to the airport he had attempted to invert himself in the harness, perhaps attempting a handstand on top of his slider, while steering wit his foot in the cascades of the suspension lines. During this maneuver, he likely entangled his right foot in the risers/lines forcing a normally docile canopy into an extreme spiral.This radical of a spin under this type of canopy cannot be achieved with any kind of toggle action. So, it looks like he ran out of altitude and ideas at about the same time. Like I said, the slider ride is not for the general population... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
