Skyball (or something close to it)

[Cashmanimal 0]

We spent a while making a number of skyballs on saturday. Nobody really knew an ideal weight or tail length, so we just kinda felt it out.

Our first one was far too light, and upon releasing it, shot straight up. This video is of our second attempt, in which the ball turned out to be far too heavy, for belly-flying at least.

The fun part about this one is right after I threw the ball (which I will admit, isn't a perfect toss to begin with) it shoots straight down. I initially wrote it off and assumed we just lost another ball, but then decided to try and chase it down, as did the fourth guy out of the plane. The other two turned their jump into a cross-country dive (pre-planned in case something exactly like this happened).

I went into a real steep track to go after it, as did the other guy. Just after passing him I put my best effort into what little knowledge I have of a head-down, just to try and get a little speed boost, which it turned out I didn't need. But as I passed the ball, my frantic effort to grab it actually caused me to kick it, and against all odds, it went right to the other guy!

It was all really fun. Despite learning many things from the video later (such as the fact that my bite-switch cable had come un-tapped in the plane, or that the last guy out needs to work on his dive-out a bit) it was really exciting to watch such a crazy occurrence on film.

Then,for some reason, he decided to throw it to me one more time, about 1000 feet before pull time... then it was gone for good. We'll have it right next weekend (as we now have access to the internet, and some guidelines!)

Sorry for no clicky (feel free to PM me on how to do it) http://youtube.com/watch?v=jiK5Zxz9pg4

It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

[airtwardo 6]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jiK5Zxz9pg4

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[DSE 3]

No worries about losing a tennis ball filled with BBs?

[ast4711 0]

No worries other than that?

alex

--
www.tandemmaster.net
www.skydivegear.de

[hookitt 0]

A few comments

That ball isn't terribly fast. It's not slow, but it's not overly fast either. The guy it was thrown towards was in a slow falling body position and the diving position was a good indicator of the speed as well.

Fall rate must be matched first. Tossing it without knowing fall rate is a mistake. Until you figure it out, no more than 2 people.

You must have enough skill and judgment to not let the ball go in. If the ball is inevitably going in, you need enough judgment to not follow it passed your hard deck. I’ve seen more than one AAD fire by someone following a ball.

That jump was over an area that seems void of obstacles and livestock (or so it appears). Are you certain that letting it land unattended is not going to damage anything?

Multiple people were chasing the ball during that jump. The ball is a center point where people chasing will meet. It’s a target.

Collisions come is varieties from mild bumping to bone breaking and even death causing. Yeah sounds obvious but when 2 people are diving towards something and the lower person stops diving, the fall rate change is drastic. Hitting each other at 40 miles per hour is bad. Think about just running towards each other until you hit each other. That’s probably 11 to 15 mph It would hurt. 40 plus closing speed is a lot worse.

If you are certain that letting the ball go in isn't going to harm anything then:

- Let the ball go and match fall rate.
- Fly relative to the ball.
- Learn to grab the ball and put it back in the air
- Repeat.
- At 5 grand you are finished. Catch the ball and don't let it go.

That's about all I'm going to get into for now. Don't run into each other and don't hit anything important on the ground. A ball traveling 120 and faster will cause havoc to whatever stops it.

Good luck. Have fun and don’t die.

Cheers

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Buy a Red Dot cue ball.

[DSE 3]

I guess you misunderstood what I was meaning.
"No worries about losing a tennis ball filled with BB's" means "no worries about putting a high-speed projectile" into the air. While the area looks fairly open, what about livestock, outbuildings, irrigation systems, people working their land, vehicles. asphalt roads...A 65mm bullet with velocity is going to have some serious impact value.
Yeah, I know, Vladiballs cost money but they're safe.
But this has been discussed to death here so I'll shut up.

[ast4711 0]

No, it was an ironic question.
I saw a number of potential problems in the Video. Dropping the skyball was my last concern....

But I am shure you did as well....

alex

--
www.tandemmaster.net
www.skydivegear.de

[freefli 2]

I see this thread being locked sometime in the future as people blast you.

Why is there somebody wearing camera and doing a skyball jump that can't even get stable on exit?

There are so many things wrong with this skydive, just thought I'd point out one observation and leave many for others to comment on. Nice Dolphin by the way.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I would be curious to know the experience level of all on the jump and if any of them had ever done a ball jump before. Who was the ball master?(person to have the ball at break off). Was there a hard deck for the ball to be in hand? Had anyone else on the jump ever done a ball jump before? Did the DZO know about this? I could go on but there is probably no point.

I will add that my first post was before I watched the video.I was trying to solve the problem before I knew what the problem was

[kkeenan 13]

Quote

I would be curious to know ...
- the experience level of all on the jump
- if any of them had ever done a ball jump before.
- Who was the ball master?(person to have the ball at break off).
- Was there a hard deck for the ball to be in hand?
- Had anyone else on the jump ever done a ball jump before?
- Did the DZO know about this?

I have a feeling that the answers to most of these questions would be "Uh...We never thought of that..."

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[Cashmanimal 0]

Quote

I would be curious to know the experience level of all on the jump and if any of them had ever done a ball jump before. Who was the ball master?(person to have the ball at break off). Was there a hard deck for the ball to be in hand? Had anyone else on the jump ever done a ball jump before? Did the DZO know about this? I could go on but there is probably no point.

I will add that my first post was before I watched the video.I was trying to solve the problem before I knew what the problem was

Experience level: First out- 800+ jumps with countless ball jumps, second out was me with 165 jumps, ~10 Ball jumps, third out has 250 jumps with 2 ball jumps, last out has 200 jumps with ~15 ball jumps.

I guess you would say the "ball master" would be me, as we decided if any chasing was necessary or possible, it would be me going after it. As far as who has it at break off, whoever has possession at 5500 or below keeps it. (the last throw was made between 6000 and 5500... I assumed having to chase the ball down was an obvious clue to NOT throw it again... he didn't)

Yes, the DZO and S&TA knew about it. Our landing zone is about a mile from the nearest sign of civilization, in addition to spotting well outside the landing zone. (Hence the high break-off for a bit of tracking or high pull if necessary). Our jump van usually parks in the landing zone, but waits a bit down the road on jumps with toys. The winds were between 5-10 all the way up, in the opposite direction of the nearest sign of life (a pool of irrigation water).

We established ahead of time if the ball was going to be chased down, who was going to do what. I as well as the last guy out would chase (yes, aware of the chance of collision) and the other two would track towards the landing zone, as we would obviously be at much different altitudes, and that would make their life a lot easier as far as getting back. As I am sure someone will ask why the most experienced jumper wasn't on the chase team, it is because he simply doesn't like to do anything outside of simple belly-work, due to previous injuries and laziness.

As far as the last guy's exit went, it was just funky. He is actually rather skilled and reliable as a skydiver and cameraman, he claims it was just funky how he exited. I think that's just an excuse . I agree it was rather disappointing.

Anyway, being a Cessna DZ, we have plenty of time to pre-plan these things while we wait to actually jump. The only real random part of this is building the ball, despite what the video may convey. I love these DZ.come grillings! They are inevitable.

It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

[packing_jarrett 0]

Quote

I love these DZ.come grillings! They are inevitable.

Your right on about inevitable. I'd say 1/3 of dz.com is just grillings. 2/3 of my dz.com career has been grillings.

but contrary to popular belief they actually piss me off.

The outcome of the situation would be much different if you were meeting these guys in person. (DSE)

Na' Cho' Cheese

[Cashmanimal 0]

Quote

Quote

I love these DZ.come grillings! They are inevitable.

Your right on about inevitable. I'd say 1/3 of dz.com is just grillings. 2/3 of my dz.com career has been grillings.

but contrary to popular belief they actually piss me off.

The outcome of the situation would be much different if you were meeting these guys in person. (DSE)

I agree. Although it is hard sometimes, I tend not to take anything that is said here personal. Although most people here are far more experienced than I am, they tend to use the ability to hide behind a username and play the odds of never meeting in person to stroll about on their high-horse.

That is not to say, by any means, that a lot of the people talking big couldn't fly circles blindfolded around me. I have taken much advice from the site, with many grains of salt. I have received a LOT of useful info. I have received many grilling as well, though!

Anyway, now that this thread was derailed... I basically posted it to accept about 10 flamings to every "Wow, what were the odds! Neat!"

It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

[hookitt 0]

Luckily I'm pretty sure I haven't grilled either of you. My suggestions about the ball are based upon one video showing a most definite problem. My suggestions are legitimate.

Let go, fly with the ball.
Learn to retake the ball and put it back in the air.

The ball didn't look all that fast. I've flown with BB filled balls and they are on the slower side.

The video clearly shows a ball that is tossed before reaching terminal. It has less surface area and will speed up to its terminal velocity much quicker than a human especially one that presents the whole front of the body.

Had the ball been released rather than throwing it, they may have stayed with it. Releasing it a few seconds later would have been more appropriate for testing the speed.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[DSE 3]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I love these DZ.come grillings! They are inevitable.

Your right on about inevitable. I'd say 1/3 of dz.com is just grillings. 2/3 of my dz.com career has been grillings.

but contrary to popular belief they actually piss me off.

The outcome of the situation would be much different if you were meeting these guys in person. (DSE)

I agree. Although it is hard sometimes, I tend not to take anything that is said here personal. Although most people here are far more experienced than I am, they tend to use the ability to hide behind a username and play the odds of never meeting in person to stroll about on their high-horse.

That is not to say, by any means, that a lot of the people talking big couldn't fly circles blindfolded around me. I have taken much advice from the site, with many grains of salt. I have received a LOT of useful info. I have received many grilling as well, though!

Anyway, now that this thread was derailed... I basically posted it to accept about 10 flamings to every "Wow, what were the odds! Neat!"

I don't think anyone is grilling you in this thread.
Skyball is a helluva lot of fun; I've been on several and enjoy them. However, the video you posted invites several comments, safety doesn't appear to be a big deal in that vid. Add to that the concern that you're jumping a tennis ball vs something safer.
Our DZ is very remote as well, with cattle sometimes beneath us or within half a mile of us. Additionally, there are other aircraft parked on the apron, outbuildings, etc. The rule at our DZ is that nothing but a Vladiball or other pressure-release device is used.
The terminal velocity of a tennis ball filled with shot is around 150-170mph, and it'll seriously ruin anyone/anything's day if it hits. It would go through top/bottom of a vehicle, easily.
I'm sure someone will think something ridiculous like "The lesson to be learned is don't let the ball burn in." Accidents happen to the best jumpers with the best intentions.
The one death we've had in 15 years at our DZ was a skyball jump; too many people in the same place going for the same target =broken neck. If asking questions about safety considerations is considered "grilling" then I guess I'm guilty.
Skyball is a lot of fun, but also can be more dangerous than the average skydive.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I don't feel like I gave you a grilling nor do I think this thread has been derailed. I would think with all of that ball jump experience that one of you would have know what a ball should weigh. Save youself some research and go back to my first post in this thread. Of course with all of that ball jump experience I would have thought you would know that too.

[Cashmanimal 0]

AH, I understand what you mean now.

I had done this on the previous jump, with this result:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MgyFbIX4-7c

Probably should have kept my other hand over it in anticipation....

I figured our second one would be a little closer... I guess a little anxiousness set in with the second ball. Until we get it dialed in, I will wait til we hit terminal to test it out.

I wasn't saying you were grillin me I thought what you said made sense... but it did happen, and I am, as usual, completely over it.

It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

[joewantaharley 0]

Use a Vladiball. I have lots of Vladiball Jumps. They're safe. I can give you the weights for belly & freefly. It took a few jumps to figure the weights out. But I have not KILLED ANYONE ON THE GROUND

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Use a Vladiball. I have lots of Vladiball Jumps. They're safe. I can give you the weights for belly & freefly. It took a few jumps to figure the weights out. But I have not KILLED ANYONE ON THE GROUND

Does it have some kind of safety? How does it differ from a filled tennis ball? I have the manual, but it has only one sentense:

Quote

3) To use the deployment system ONLY as a backup. To keep this product in a positive eye to all communities, every effort should be made to retrieve the ball before 4000ft (1200m).

So what kind of deployment system is there?

[DSE 3]

The Vladiball (for all intent/discussion) is an altimeter that pushes a small pin instead of a small needle/armature. You fill the ball on the ground, steel or lead shot are best used. The ball is held together with a rubber band/stoe until you hit altitude of around 3K.
Remove the rubber band (I wait until just before exit and slide it over my wrist).
If the ball hits around 1k or so, the pin that is holding it closed retracts due to pressure change. This causes the shot to fall out and because the shot is so light, it spreads out. At worse, it might pit the paint on a car below.
On our dives, the ballmaster gets the ball above 4k. Rubberband is slid back around the slender ball, and ball is placed in pocket or tossed down your shirt.
Everyone on the dive carries a rubber band on their wrist in case the ballmaster doesn't get the ball at breakoff.

[joewantaharley 0]

Vladiballs I found my to open up higher around 3000. I had one blowup at 10000. We throw it out of the plane & chased it. I think I came in TOO FAST. Glad I had my full face on. I quit my jumps at 6000ish & build a round. I am the ballmaster but I love sitting and waiting for someone new to get it. I try to let everyone get their hands on it. The fun part was getting the weight right for belly. Got it now

[BMFin 0]

You guys..I have asked this sometimes before here but I ask again... I would really apprechiate if you could come up with some video / still footage of a vladiball.

Also I would like to see some pics close up since I have never seen one..
Cannot find any pics online.

I have heard there has been some issues of balls blowing up accidentally and being very fragile... Also I have heard they are not so stable. Is this true ?

[joewantaharley 0]

I have lots of video But they are all on VHS.

[DSE 3]

Look at my post. There is a picture of a vladiball in flight attached to the post.
If they blow up, apparently it's because of a cracked bladder. Bladders can be overheated in a car, etc.
it's a small ball, split in half with a post and ribbon on the top. Two halves are put together once the shot is put in to them, held closed with a rubber band. On the ride to altitude, as pressure decreases, the bladder forces a pin into the bottom of the two halves of the ball. Once the pin is firmly seated in the two halves, the rubberband can be removed, and should be kept on the wrist of the ballmaster so when he retrieves it at breakoff, it can be closed and pocketed. As mentioned in previous posts, each person on our skyball jumps wears a rubber band on the wrist in case they end up with the ball at breakoff. I can post vid should you want. PM me.