Stalling yourself into a self-gift-wrap?

[damion75 0]

Quote

Well, I'd classify this as normal circumstances since it's something you may do unintentionally. Even though this was planned, you may do the same during final if you were scared or something made you reflexes initiate hard full flare up high(possible canopy collision).

Hope I cleared it out for you...

Not entirely, since you would classify this as normal flight, I would then suggest that it is possible to create a streamer effect from a canopy stall in this way. I guess it depends on your definition of streamer, but if we go along the:

Ball of shit with no flying characteristics, lift or wing shape and certainly no crossport venting going on

Which is unwieldy but I think says what I want it to, then with that definition I would argue that you can stall a modern sport canopy into a streamer.

Of course this doesn't answer the OP's question about gift wrapping from a stall, to which I would have to say not from the stall but possibly from the recovery...

PS - Just as a matter of interest, I really don't think I could do it accidentally as it was necessary to work pretty hard to achieve the stall - which was the point of Shannon's exercise: To prove that it was not that easy.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[AndyMan 7]

A real scenario where it's possible: The failed attempt at a canopy barrel roll.

Now this isn't really what the poster was asking, but it does fit the definition.

A canopy barrel roll is where you manage to essentially rotate around the center point between you and the canopy. It's a very risky maneuver, that some of the best canopy pilots have screwed up. It's certainly not recommended for most jumpers.

One possible outcome is that as the pilot reaches the peak of the barrel roll - essentially over the top of the canopy, his airspeed decreases such that his canopy stalls, and he falls down onto the underside of his canopy.

I've seen this happen, and it's a terrible situation to be in. The jumper was lucky to get his reserve out at about 500 feet.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[hackish 8]

As a point of curiosity is there an established procedure for unwrapping the gift? I tried the search feature as it's no doubt been discussed before but couldn't find any more than "gift suggestions"

Since I've never been wrapped and hope to never be I don't know what challenges there would be - ie how hard it would be to just try and brute force hand over hand the nylon until you're out. I don't even know how easy it would be tangled in your canopy to bend over so you could kiss you ass goodbye.

-Michael

[relyon 0]

Quote

One possible outcome is that as the pilot reaches the peak of the barrel roll - essentially over the top of the canopy, his airspeed decreases such that his canopy stalls, and he falls down onto the underside of his canopy.

Airfoils don't stall because of lack of airspeed, but rather exceeding the stall AOA. The result you describe is still a gift wrap (as is good CRW gone bad), but it isn't due to a stall.

Bob

[AndyMan 7]

Not so much a standard procedure, as much as simple steps you should already know: remain calm, use a hook knife if you've got it, and try to figure out how to extract the parachute while also flying your parachute and keeping yourself safe.

I've never been in a wrap, and I hope to continue to avoid it - probably unlikely since I've been doing a lot of Canopy formations lately, but I imagine it's a very stressful event. If I can go 1500 jumps without an accidental wrap, everyone can.

I think the nutshell here is that you should avoid the wrap in the first place. This thread should make it clear that it's virtually impossible to put yourself in a wrap on your own. Ignore the case about the barrel roll I posted above - although it's a real risk of this maneuver, even attempting this maneuver is so rare it's it's not worth considering. I mentioned it more out of curiosity than anything else.

Therefore, the only real risk of a wrap comes from the people around you. Avoiding canopy accidents is a relatively straight forward thing to do. Most jumpers go through their entire jumping career without seeing a canopy collision, never mind being in one.

The key here is two simple items:

1) Keep your head on a swivel to know where people are around you.
2) Fly a standard pattern, so that you're predictable to other jumpers.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[billvon 2,436]

>Airfoils don't stall because of lack of airspeed, but rather exceeding the stall AOA.

True for rigid wings, but not really true for ram-air canopies. One of the favorite thought-experiment questions for new pilots is pointing to a plane tied down on the ramp with a 5kt wind blowing past it, and asking "is that wing stalled?" Which is generally isn't, since it isn't seeing flow separation.

On ram-air canopies, of course, that doesn't work. If a canopy is lying there on the ground with a 5kt wind blowing over it, the question becomes rather meaningless because it's not a wing at that point.

Likewise, a canopy that experiences a net downward force (due to say a downdraft, or it being inverted and having the lines unloaded) may not be stalled in the traditional sense, but will collapse and cease flying just the same - and the aerodynamics of the situation will be far closer to a stall than anything else.

[relyon 0]

Quote

>Airfoils don't stall because of lack of airspeed, but rather exceeding the stall AOA.

True for rigid wings, but not really true for ram-air canopies. ...

While a stall does produce a loss of lift, not every loss of lift is due to a stall. While a canopy lying on the ground uninflated or one experiencing a net downward force in flight can produce insufficient lift (or no lift), there is no flow separation and it's not a stalled.

Bob

[FlyingBlueJay 0]

Have any of you seen Wally Gubbins? There's a scene when a guy wraps his toggles three or four times around and starts doing really dumb sh*t. Totally collapsed stalls in and out really fast, collapsing one side and spinning... If he didn't gift wrap himself, I don't know what would!

There is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Pick a nice day, and try it. - Douglas Adams

[shropshire 0]

Quote

If he didn't gift wrap himself, I don't know what would!

Try fucking up a tumble on a paraglider.... That will Gift wrap you .... and not in a nice way ... See Here OUCH

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[d123 1]

Wow .. that's scary & lucky.

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[shropshire 0]

Very lucky man indeed.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome