"The Decline in Skydiving in the 21st Century", a white paper

[Eule 0]

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My understanding is that jumping was shut down for one weekend in September 2001.

Even if DZs reopened the following weekend, the damage to the economy was significant.

I think that's true, but the original statement only seemed to me to be talking about the direct effect of the attacks on aviation:

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The "downturn" in skydiving (at least in the US) in the early 2000's was caused by a number of things, including the economy, the problems in aviation caused by the terrorist attack on the US, insurance prices, and fuel prices.

Emphasis mine. Again, I don't disagree that 9/11 affected many parts of the economy; I just don't like it when 9/11 is given as a reason without explanation.

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[rhys 0]

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Freeflying has also added an interesting dilemma to our sport. Back "in the day" there were boogies that you didn't want to miss because ALL the other kids would be there. 20 ways were the order of the day and you could meet all kinds of new people, because we were on the same jump together. Now the freeflying is breaking up the sport socially a bit, while advancing it tremendously skill wise. It's harder now for casual older belly flyers to show up on a weekend and get on a good load, or even know a lot of people at their own DZ!

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I blame Dale Stuart and head down flyers for the decline of skydiving as we know it.

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The exclusive nature of these 'highly skilled' free flyers is also a major turn off for most newbie’s who may not want to do 12 jumps a day and have 2 or 3 rigs with packers etc. let alone be able to afford it.

These sorts of comments are so stupid. It’s like hearing a grumpy old man on a rocking chair “Back in my day……”

'Dale Stuart and the head down flyers' (kind of a good name for a covers band eh?)

These people are no different to the guys that first started relative work! The relative work scene is very competitive and also puts people off skydiving as the fun falls away and the seriousness sets in.

I think a lot of the attitude given by certain free flyers, freestylers, atmonauts, trackers, sky surfers, swoopers, etc etc. is the same as the relative workers. Most people interested in 4 way would aspire to be sponsored have 2 rigs a packer and do 12 jumps a day also.

The situation is very similar to what has happened to skiing with the advent of snowboarding.

At first a few punk surfers tried it out; it was shunned but the ski resorts and skiers because it was different and unknown. Very rapidly the new discipline (snow boarding and free flying) became very popular and imposed new strains on equipment manufacturers that were all too pleased to supply this new demand and creating a new industry in itself. Also the new disciplines gained more media attention and were included in the major competitions of the associated sport (parachuting world meets for freestyle then skysurf and freefly and the Olympic Games for snowboarding)

It is funny(peculiar) that I entered the sport of snowboarding in it's relative infancy and also started skydiving when freeflying had only been around a few years. I have seen the same sort of tension between skiers and snowboarders that I have with flat flyers and freeflyers.

In the Snow sports industry things have settled down and changed somewhat. At some resorts there are more snowboarders than skiers and there are terrain parks (worth 100’s of 1000’s of $$) to attract them to come there.

The sooner the ‘Old Folk’ learn to accept new disciplines the participants in such activities will lose the attitude. Unfortunately this takes time and as time goes on those ‘Old Folk’ will move on and newcomers to the sport will be oblivious to any of the previous tension, because all the disciplines were there when they started.

Having said all that I take part in the following disciplines;

Flatfly (big ways, speed stars and fucking around, I find 4 way too serious), Freestyle (representing my country, camera), freefly, swooping, tandem, commercial video, AFF jumpmaster, ground launch (more a pragliding discipline than skydiving though), atmonauti or whatever I can get my hands on.

I mostly snowboard but I also ski when the snow is hard and Telemark when I’m feeling adventurous.

Why not give it all a go?

Sorry about the bleat but I can see in the future the attitudes of some people will calm down as the opposition to the activities they are taking part in dies down.

Lets all love one another?

We are all skydivers.

I have to add;

I learned by static line and I agree with what has been said about AFF graduates, Saying AFF is the best way to learn and Static line is old fashioned etc.

I simply reply to them “How could they possibly know when you havn’t experienced static line? I have pulled numerous 3 ways out. The first time I climbed out of the aircraft I was by myself, dependent only on myself. I essentially learned to ride the bike by myself and you had to have trainer wheels”

Static line jumps are a huge adventure, with the buzz being spread over more jumps while you learn each skill more intimately.

AFF you have to think about so much on your first jump that you don’t really get to enjoy it as much. Just my thoughts.

Rhys

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[peek 20]

An update. At the PIA Symposium I gave to a number of people a paper copy of the paper, but only a few had time to read it and comment at the Symposium.

An addition to the reasons for decline would probably be what I learned from a graph of USPA membership that Chris Needels, USPA's Executive Director, made for various presentations at the USPA BOD meeting and DZO Conference.

It showed that although the number of young members (expected?) and older members (retirement, empty nest?) is increasing ever so slightly, that the people in the middle age groups which contain the majority of members, are declining.

[GrabGrass 0]

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"Professional" skydivers:

>>>Stop trying to make a living on skydiving!
This is impossible to do in a professional manner...<<<

>>>Pursue business interests outside of skydiving. Consider getting a "real job". <<<

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HELL YES!

Spoken like a true middle-aged guy with a ponytail!!

Someone please tell Brian G. to stop all this nonsense he's doing!

How dare a young, intelligent, articulate person make living
on the fringes of parachute related technologies!

(Gary is is a co-founder of the Parks College Parachute Research Group)

An interesting editorial /opinion piece.

But you says some things in it kind of like they are hard researched fact, which I don't think you can actually "prove" with direct data.
You might not have meant for a negative slant, but that's how it reads.
Derogatory comments (like DZO's children shouldn't go into the business) make the actual points you seem to be trying to make a little obscure and confusing.

No one should question your intent, your contributions to the sport speak for themselves.
But a "White Paper" in my experience, lists facts and sources,
the authors opnions on the relavence of those facts, and a path to alter an expected outcome.

~ "Pack Fast, Pull Low... and Date Your Riggers WIFE!" ~

[rehmwa 2]

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I have seen the same sort of tension between skiers and snowboarders that I have with flat flyers and freeflyers.

I have no issue with disciplines, I have issues with attitudes.

I know a ton of snowboarders that: Don't hog an entire lift chair, board safely, that DON'T sit down in the middle of a run behind mounds, that are friendly and courteous to everyone.

I know a ton of snowboarders that: will "try" to take an entire quad chair when the line is full, cut off other boarders and skiers, sit down in the middle of a run and block the run, that sit and swear and smoke in front of little kids, that slide to the front of the lift line and push their way into it.

The discipline choice isn't the problem. Mostly just attitude, sometimes just age.

Same can be said for skydiving any tension is usually do to one or both parties being jerks about it.

Also, it's not an issue with 'skydivers' that jump multiple disciplines.

And, I believe it's less of an issue with very good skydivers in their disciplines, they honestly respect the other disciplines. Only the hacks seem to have the ego. At least in our area.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[peek 20]

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An interesting editorial /opinion piece.

That's correct. The reasons for the decline are well known and have been discussed by many people during the last few years, but the suggestions are mine.

I have not presented anything in this writing as a researched fact, else I would have supplied data.

One of the definitions of a "white paper" that I found was a writing describing particular issues in an industry and suggestions for dealing with them. I think that is what this paper has done.

And as I replied to someone earlier in this thread, perhaps the "research group" in my bio is confusing. This paper is not related to the technical research I do on parachutes. My apologies to all if that is how you interpreted it.

As far as professionalism, well, if you can make a professional living doing it, great! But the industry of skydiving does not owe a living to anyone. They must work at it, and for those not willing to do that, perhaps another career is in order.

[peek 20]

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The article may be met with good reactions from folks who are like-minded with you, but to the majority of the skydiving population and outsiders, the article is nothing but a pessimistic account from a bitter veteran and not a well thought out thesis.

Oh, my, I certainly did not intend it to be considered a "thesis", and that is why I called it a "white paper".

I'm not bitter, I jump every weekend, and have a lot of fun! It's the whining I hear so often that makes me comment in this manner.

I adapted quite well to the decline, but it is a lot of work.

Thanks for the comments.

[airtwardo 6]

That's correct. The reasons for the decline are well known and have been discussed by many people during the last few years, but the suggestions are mine.

I have not presented anything in this writing as a researched fact, else I would have supplied data.

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Hi Gary, good to see you again after 25 years!

I found your piece interesting and thought provoking, wish you would have given me a copy at PIA...I was in similar discussion with a few others there that you may have been interested in listening to...Tony Thacker's view on training methods / marketing / student retention etc. ...for one.

I wonder...maybe we 'should' do some in-depth research to get a more definitive handle on the possible cause and obvious effect the changes in society over the last 20 years has had on the sport.

A few of us could each take a chunk of the pie and collate data in various significant areas, allowing a clearer grasp as to the the why.
...and more importantly to assist in charting what's coming ahead.

Robin Heid made some good points in his recent editorial in regard to other sports and their assessment of, and approach to, the similar problem.

I've thought of a few variables but certainly there are many others we might want to look at...things like you mention, the media's effect.

*Some ideas we might look at~figures going back 20 years.

*Total population & age ranges

*Disposable Income and time

*Influx and migration trends with regard to 'other' similar activities

*USPA yearly membership & age ranges

*Number of dropzones and locations

*Time line of media 'events' like movies, positive & negative news coverage of major national events/incidents.

*Effects of war, terrorism and the like on other sports membership numbers, both aviation related and not.

*Economy in general and specifically, gas prices, gear prices, insurance prices, training costs, etc.

*Education levels & income ranges of students, 'tourists', old timers, instructors, DZO's....

I'm sure there are many other things we should look at in the 'mix' that when graphed out might show 'exactly' where we stand and why.


I believe that until research utilizing 'hard data' can be brought together and analyzed, we have only a semi-skewed-
personal / regional 'opinion' (as you stated) of what REALLY happened and why.


Any volunteers?!





...And next time Gary, I promise to clear the room ON TIME!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[MikeTJumps 4]

Nice article, Gary.
Do you remember my article in Parachutist titled "Staff Longevity"? It is a parallel to several of your points.

I'm heading home from the PIA Symposium today.

Mike Turoff
Instructor Examiner, USPA
Co-author of Parachuting, The Skydiver's Handbook

[peek 20]

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Nice article, Gary.
Do you remember my article in Parachutist titled "Staff Longevity"? It is a parallel to several of your points.

Yes I do, and I am also seeing this decline increase. In 2007 USPA membership increased a bit (back to where it was before the drop in 2006) but I don't think membership in organizations is an accurate reflection of skydiving "activity".

[Andrewwhyte 1]

In this part of the world (Alberta) staff is as big a problem or bigger than market.

[peek 20]

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In this part of the world (Alberta) staff is as big a problem or bigger than market.

Yes, in many cases we have found this to be an issue. What is everyone's feelings on why this has happened?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

One word- WAGES

[virgin-burner 1]

i really dont wonder with the attitudes of some experienced skydivers. be them instructors or not.

go figure!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[buster44 0]

I thought what peek wrote is very interesting. I started in the sport in 1984, and bad weather in the UK as well as starting my own business in '86 brought it all to an end. I always wanted to get back into skydiving and at last in 2005 I had the time and money to start again, and did AFF in the USA. I still only have a low jump total due to a biking injury but I hope to be jumping again soon.

Anyway, my experience of the sport is that the people I have met in the UK and USA have, on the whole, been a pretty friendly bunch who are keen to help. As with any sport, there is an element of poseurs/know alls/snobs/legends, but they are to be found in all walks of life, and they're best ignored. Compared to a sport like dirt biking, which is another sport I love, I think the factors in attracting and retaining new participants are the same - time, money and maintaining the thrill. (And in the UK, our weather is a problem)

Without wanting to sound negative, I think that once a 'natural' level of participants is reached in any sport, there is very little that can be done to attract thousands of newcomers without spending a fortune. And also, the very exclusivity of these sports is perhaps what makes them attractive to the relative few who do them.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Without wanting to sound negative, I think that once a 'natural' level of participants is reached in any sport, there is very little that can be done to attract thousands of newcomers without spending a fortune. And also, the very exclusivity of these sports is perhaps what makes them attractive to the relative few who do them.

I think you make a very good point. The attitudes people complain about on the DZ may well be an unavoidable consequence of widening the base. You cannot help but lessen the "this is our little intimate thing" feel. This becomes a negative feedback loop and will limit the amount of participation unless and until the culture changes so that is not what is expected. This is why we see so many threads on here about how the culture was so much better x many years ago. Inevitably X is directly related to how long the speaker has been jumping.

[steveorino 7]

Retention of students aside, my guess the reason for the lack of retention for DZ staff can be summed up in one word ... DRAMA.

Who needs it? Too many other fun activities where the "drama" is kept to a minimum or doesn't exist at all. It appears skydiving and DZ staffs have a large proportion of drama. JMHO

steveOrino

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Retention of students aside, my guess the reason for the lack of retention for DZ staff can be summed up in one word ... DRAMA.

Who needs it? Too many other fun activities where the "drama" is kept to a minimum or doesn't exist at all. It appears skydiving and DZ staffs have a large proportion of drama. JMHO

That is true, no doubt. What I have noticed over the years though is that the drama increases as average income falls; bad weather, over-supply of staff, aircraft issues all tend to make the staff tense. During peak season the staff are usually to busy to be at each other.