Designated Landing Areas (not swooping related)

[freeflymickey 0]

I am referring to dz's that have a specific landing area for specific license holders (not specifically for swoopers).

I think it is better not to designate. I have witnessed low jumpers risk low turns in order to not land in the designated d license holder landing area out of fear of being yelled at by others.

I understand an area being designated if it is perhaps near some trees that commonly have turbulence coming off them, etc.. in that case I believe it is best just to warn versus eliminate that landing area for a student or low jumper all together.

Sometimes shit just happens, being concerned about landing where you have been told not to does not seem like a good thing in the case of an emergency or other unforseen event.

What are your thoughts?

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

I think it is better not to designate. I have witnessed low jumpers risk low turns in order to not land in the designated d license holder landing area out of fear of being yelled at by others.

The problem is not that you have designated landing areas. The problem is in how you enforce them.

If a low-time jumper lands in the "wrong" landing area, yes, someone should speak to the jumper, but I would hope it would be handled in a constructive manner "what happened that you ended up landing in this area?" not a "hey dumbass, you're not allowed over here."

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[freeflymickey 0]

Quote

If a low-time jumper lands in the "wrong" landing area, yes, someone should speak to the jumper, but I would hope it would be handled in a constructive manner "what happened that you ended up landing in this area?" not a "hey dumbass, you're not allowed over here

I guess maybe thats my question. Why should a dz even have right or wrong landing areas?

[billvon 2,400]

>Why should a dz even have right or wrong landing areas?

1) Some areas may be too tight for newer jumpers to land in safely.
2) It is wise to separate standard patterns from nonstandard patterns (swoop, accuracy.)
3) Some areas may have hazards (turbulence etc) that are best avoided by newer jumpers.

>I have witnessed low jumpers risk low turns in order to not land in
>the designated d license holder landing area out of fear of being yelled at
>by others.

Why is that more of a problem than lowtime jumpers who risk low turns in order to not land in a pond or in trees? It is far easier to avoid a landing area than a forest.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

I am referring to dz's that have a specific landing area for specific license holders (not specifically for swoopers).

I think it is better not to designate. I have witnessed low jumpers risk low turns in order to not land in the designated d license having to climb down from a hanger roof holder landing area out of fear of being yelled at by others.

Inexperienced people don't have experience landing in a variety of wind conditions and often make the wrong call on where to hold. It's a lot better when that wrong call means a longer walk or paying a farmer for crop damage instead of an ambulance ride because they flew into a building.

When you don't designate, the jumpers who lack the experience to know what they can and can't do try for the tighter landing area close to packing and screw up leading to nicknames like "34B" (as in the hanger, not bust size) and "Ram Tough" (like the pickup truck).

When you do designate, they screw up and have time to contemplate staying farther up wind during their long walk back.

Here's a C license or better landing area. The prevailing winds are usually out of the east or west. Note the hangers, helipads, and runway surrounding it.

This disregards the increased potential for conflicts with the unpredictable S-turnings used by less experienced jumpers to land where they want. An S-turning low jumper "having the right of way" isn't going to get them out of the morgue/hospital sooner when some one swoops into them.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Here's a C license or better landing area. The prevailing winds are usually out of the east or west. Note the hangers, helipads, and runway surrounding it. Going long can lead to conflicts with planes using the runway.

True, definitely a good example of a landing area that's not for the inexperienced. But it's also not a DZ where the student/A/B license jumpers can mistakenly land on the C and above landing area, since the landing areas are separated by several miles.

But there are DZs where the "main" landing areas are limited to B and above, and yet are co-located with the A/student landing area (Perris and Elsinore are two I can think of off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more).

Elsinore's rules for the two landing areas (leaving aside the third high-performance landing area for now) are listed right on the web site, and covers some of the reasons you listed. Emphasis added is mine, and points to other reasons for separation of the two groups of jumpers.

Quote

• MAIN / EXPERIENCED LANDING AREA - directly in front of the packing area. You must have 50 Jumps / B License Minimum. First person down sets the pattern - follow the tetrahedron. No more than a 90 degree turn on approach is allowed. No holding breaks, spiraling or carving over this landing area. Watch for heavy traffic.

• STUDENT LANDING AREA - to the right of the main landing area. Use student windsock for directional control. Follow the first person to land. Students have the right of way. In light/no winds, land toward the lake.

The student area at Elsinore is much larger, and the rules are essentially telling all of us with a B or higher who choose to land over there - the students rule, and if they make mistakes, it's our responsibility to be aware. Landing toward the lake in L&V winds gives room to run out away from the buildings.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[dragon2 0]

The first jump I made at one of our other DZ's I landed in the student area. I had 350 jumps or so but wasn't comfy in between all the hotrods and landing in a to my view not so big landing area. Now this student landing area requires someone to come get you, now I knew there was a student on the same load landing there too so I didn't make someone come over just for me. Still got yelled at, but didn't care

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[TrickyDicky 0]

At my DZ there is the 500+ jumps landing area which is just infront of the flight light, and is shown by the cut grass, and is adjacent to one of the 3 grass strips.

The <500 jumps landing area is anywhere in the longer grass, to the east of the NS runway. That is about half a mile square, so I dont think low experienced jumps are ever going to do a low turn to avoid the experienced landing area.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=weston-on-the-green&ie=UTF8&ll=51.878677,-1.220942&spn=0.011273,0.025663&t=h&z=16

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[iluvtofly 0]

My DZ's landing area is actually pretty small compared to most. Mostly due to obstacles. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=496+old+ash+rd,+mercer,+pa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=61.153041,108.28125&ie=UTF8&ll=41.147678,-80.173877&spn=0.003611,0.006609&t=h&z=17
It's kinda hard to see but just behind the tail of the airplane is a fence that runs the entire length. So that kinda divides the landing area. Because our landing area is so small it would be pretty impossible to have designated landing areas. Even if you zoom out the picture you'd see that there isn't a whole lot of landing area at the airport itself.