Life Insurance?

[InfiniteLevels 0]

Hey everybody, i am extremely new to the sport and the boards...planning on starting AFF in the near future.

However, a lot of people have told me that if you skydive, it will be near impossible to get a reasonable deal on life insurance, and a lot of companies wont even give you any.

What are your experiences with this??

[Skwrl 56]

I got an absurdly large policy, but I got it before I started. Once you start, you will need to (on most policies) disclose it - which will put you in a very expensive category, if they will insure you at all.

My suggestion is buy before you start, and make sure the policy doesn't exclude death from sports (including "extreme sports" and "inherently risky activities") or from aviation accidents.

I defer to the insurance brokers on the board, though.

(Also, I assumed you are in the US.)

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[jsaxton 0]

I got mint through work (MetLife) it has no restrictions for skydiving, free climbing or any other "extreme" sports.

The best thing to do is to purchase through a group plan.

[pirana 0]

Insurance is mostly regulated at the state level, so check with the local experts to confirm anything. Usually the regulatory body is the state's Dept of Commerce.

Some general advice that is true in most places most of the time:

<> Buy before you start skydiving. Rarely are policies cancelled once they are active, and in most places it is not allowed.

<> Rates are better with a group; though they often have a base amount you get no questions asked, and additional coverage that you have to qualify for. You most likely will not qualify if you are already a skydiver. Also, you may be rated up severely or dropped once you are no longer employed. Check the rules for "conversion" if you leave employment.

<> Once you start skydiving, IF you can buy as an individual it might well be rated up or include a rider excluding skydiving.

<> Same rules are in effect in most places for activities like being a pilot, rodeo, cave exploring, scuba, any competitive motorsports, hang gliding, and a couple others.

<> Beware of absolute statements (which is why I used so many vague terms); the rules can differ state to state and policies differ carrier to carrier.

Best bet is to buy the biggest term policy you can afford before you take up skydiving. The last time I checked around there were no rules requiring you to report changes in activity once the policy is in place.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[catfishhunter 1]

I went with Zander Ins.
My Stats:

42 Male
Divorced once/re-Married
2 kids
Just quit smoking in Jan,
Drug Addict 6 years clean
Skydiver 700+ Jumps
None of the men on my fathers side have lived past 60. All have died of cancer by age 59

What I got:
20 Fixed Term Life 500k with the abillty to cash it out if I was Terminal and given 12months or less to live and even pays out for suicide as long as I off myself after 2 years of paying (Not that I am going to but it is written in there)

Cost 2567 per year.

Sounds like alot doesn't it? Well I look at it like they are gambling 500k for a 50k return. thats a HUGE gamble on someone with my history.

I do have one advatange so to speak. Our company is paying the cost as it is considered Key Man Insurance. My wife who is also a Jumper and has High Blood Pressure and type 2 diabetes(sp) got the same policy for half of cost of mine.

We had someone come in the our employee leasing company we use for our buisness and the cost where astronomical. I am so glad someone on here recommended Zander.

So if you are looking for Life insurance go to zanderins.com and see what they can do for you.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[airdvr 197]

There's a ton of mis-information.

Rule #1 Don't believe the salesperson. See it in writing because that's all that matters. Look hard at the Exclusions section. I've yet to see a policy that doesn't include jumping in the exclusions. It might not even say "parachuting" or "Skydiving".

Rule #2 I'd be surprised if an underwriter cares whether you got the policy before or after you started jumping. If the policy had an exclusion for jumping it doesn't state anything along the lines of "as long as you started after you bought the policy."

Rule #3 If you choose not to disclose your jumping and you die doing something else, the insurer could concievably refuse to pay if they discover that you were jumping because you didn't disclose it.

Rule #4 Life insurance that covers jumping is NOT CHEAP!

Rule #5 If you disclose your jumping, you will get an addendum or rider to the policy. It will be seperate page that discloses your jumping. Make sure you get it.

Rule #6 If you can get the policy through your employer. The rules are very different than and individual policy.

Get ready for people to tell you what I'm saying is BS.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

even pays out for suicide as long as I off myself after 2 years of paying

In some states this would not be permitted. Some states have laws that expressly forbid insurance coverage for intentional acts by the insured. Other states don't have this prohibition in codified into their statutes, but court decisions have produced the same result (it's forbidden). In those states, the language of the statute and/or court decision generally trumps the language in the policy. So: check your particular state's law if this is a concern.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Get ready for people to tell you what I'm saying is BS.

Looks fine to me.

[catfishhunter 1]

I'm not concerned as I am not gonna off myself but it is in there.

As for Jumping yes I am covered no exclusion but I discloed my USPA# License Number of Jumps, Number of Jumps in the last 30 days, 6 months and year. They did ask me if I participated in Baton Passing which I said no casue I have never passed a Baton in freefall. Seemed like a really dated question.

And as was stated my insurance ain't cheap but it isn't all becuase i'm a skydiver. It is because I am old, former smoker and junkie with a history of cancer in my family.

Seriously though if you want a good qoute call Zander. Or if you just want to know if you have any problems call them. They come out take your blood and urine and test the hell out of it. If you have ANY problem you know and it won't cost you a DIME.

I am actually thinking I am going to get a new qoute every 3 years just to make sure things are still working properly and I won't have to go to a Dr's office and wait hours. they come right to my Store and take care of it in my office on MY time frame.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

I am actually thinking I am going to get a new qoute every 3 years just to make sure things are still working properly and I won't have to go to a Dr's office and wait hours. they come right to my Store and take care of it in my office on MY time frame.

You don't want to do that. Anything they find will go on your permanent record.

Anything you disclose to a life insurance company or which gets found in a health screen ends up in the MIB (http://www.mib.com) database which is checked by other insurance companies.

Health insurance companies also feed into it.

A doctor friend of a friend suggested getting a big term life insurance policy before any tests that MIGHT find something and cancelling in the rescission period when it works out OK, because after your health insurance finds out about anything major there will be no way you'll ever get a cheap policy again.

OTOH, 80-85% of insurance applications don't result in a negative database entry.

"The only time an insurance company would report information about you to MIB would be if a medical condition, test result or other information that would affect your health or longevity were found during the underwriting of your application. Most people do not have an MIB record. Out of every 100 insurance applications, only about 15-20 result in an MIB record."

You could just take your chances.

[firstime 0]

I have seen these posts and replied. If you live in NY you cannot be denied coverage because you skydive,scuba dive,rock climb,, fly a plane blah blah blah. The ONLY thing that will do is charge you an extra $3.50 per $1000
of coverage. If you do NOT disclose that you skydive on your application that you DO skydive and you die within 2 years of the date of the application FROM SKYDIVING then they will deny the coverage to your next of kin or whom ever you left it to. They (ins co) will search every data base if you die within 2 yrs of the inception date of the policy just to find a lie or misrepresentation. If you die from ANYTHING AFTER the 2 year anniversary date of that policy that HAVE to pay regardless of what you die of, you can even do the pussy thing & commit suicide and they still have to pay....

[airdvr 197]

$3.50 per month or year? Makes a big difference. Where are you getting this flat rate of $3.50?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[dieseldogpi 0]

Someone said that if you get the coverage before you skydive, what about if you get insurance before you actually get your skydive license, but not before you do AFF's?

[catfishhunter 1]

Thanks Drew. Thats a cool site. Great information.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[Skwrl 56]

It's not the license that matters - it's the way the policy questionnaires ask questions. In other words, they will ask "do you skydive/scuba, etc.?" They don't say "do you have your skydiving license?" or "are you one of those wacky free-fliers or a boring RW person?” (I kid, I kid…)

If you are mid AFF, you skydive. Period. If you say no, you risk cancellation of your policy and/or denial of payment to your beneficiaries.

Same is true for a tandem. You skydive if it asks the question "have you skydived?". You don't need to be driving the bus for that one... (As an aside, you might be able to get a policy rider that says that you won't skydive again and/or if you die from skydiving or aviation accidents, your beneficiaries will not recover under the policy. But that's not your goal, I am guessing.)

If you have taken an FJC (pretty much indicating you're going to skydive), and you say "no", I suspect that a smart insurance defense lawyer will argue that you materially mis-stated information (or failed to include material information in your application), and you end up in the same result - no recovery for your beneficiaries.

In short - don't play games. Play it straight and consider the costs of insurance to be part of the cost of skydiving.

Personally, I got my plan long before (I mean 5 years) I started to skydive. I got a decent rate - but actually not the best rate possible, because I was heavier back then (never exercised) and smoked cigars from time to time. I'm in much better shape now and don't smoke, so all things being equal I could have my rate revisited, but then I would have to disclose that I, you know, jump out of aeroplanes. So I stick with the policy I got as a fatty semi-smoker.

/a lawyer
//not an insurance lawyer
///definitely not your lawyer.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

I could have my rate revisited, but then I would have to disclose that I, you know, jump out of aeroplanes.

You could always spell "airplanes" the way God meant it to be; maybe that would fool them.

[Skwrl 56]

That was sort of an inside joke.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[Andy9o8 0]

Oops. Mum's the word.

[pirana 0]

Quote

There's a ton of mis-information.

Rule #1 Don't believe the salesperson. See it in writing because that's all that matters. Look hard at the Exclusions section. I've yet to see a policy that doesn't include jumping in the exclusions. It might not even say "parachuting" or "Skydiving".

Rule #2 I'd be surprised if an underwriter cares whether you got the policy before or after you started jumping. If the policy had an exclusion for jumping it doesn't state anything along the lines of "as long as you started after you bought the policy."

Rule #3 If you choose not to disclose your jumping and you die doing something else, the insurer could concievably refuse to pay if they discover that you were jumping because you didn't disclose it.

Rule #4 Life insurance that covers jumping is NOT CHEAP!

Rule #5 If you disclose your jumping, you will get an addendum or rider to the policy. It will be seperate page that discloses your jumping. Make sure you get it.

Rule #6 If you can get the policy through your employer. The rules are very different than and individual policy.

Get ready for people to tell you what I'm saying is BS.

Again, blanket statements should be avoided; or at least checked with a local expert. If you meant "In Ohio" then that should be stated before giving advice.

For example, my policy, the max I could buy without having to qualify ($360K) does not exclude skydiving, or any extreme sports, and has no exclusions which could be used to do so.

Also, the statement about an underwriter not caring is true, but the detail left out is that they are only involved in assessing the risk beforehand in order to determine if a policy should be issued. They are not typically involved with determining whether or not fraud took place after the fact. (Some companies do use an underwriter to review the initial application to see if material misrepresentation took place, but once they get past that point, a fraud investigator takes over).

For #5, it depends on where you live and from whom you buy. Some states do not allow exclusionary riders.

HIPAA has all but eliminated the routine reporting of identifiable personal health information (PHI) to data clearinghouses. (And it was never anywhere close to a universal practice to begin with). Information like that can only be shared if it is de-identified, or if it is established that fraud has taken place and the sharing of information is necessary to the completion of a specific case. Health insurance companies do not share PHI outside their organization where it can be gleened by anyone willing to buy it. Heck, in the places I've worked, it can not even be shared across departments without a well documented business need.

Consider the information in this thread as issues to investigate; with a local expert you can trust.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[airdvr 197]

Absolutley correct. I am talking about the laws in Ohio.

I haven't come across any Life policy that doesn't address extreme sports in some way, and provide an exclusion for those activities. I'm surprised that a carrier could be "forced" to issue a 360K policy without addressing extreme sports. You sure about that?

My point about a skydiving exclusion: If your Life policy has an exclusion and you die skydiving it will not pay out, regardless of when you purchased it or when you started jumping. And if you die some other way and didn't diclose you were jumping...well, insurance companies have great big departments full of people whose job is to determine whether they should pay a claim.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Absolutley correct. I am talking about the laws in Ohio.

I haven't come across any Life policy that doesn't address extreme sports in some way, and provide an exclusion for those activities. I'm surprised that a carrier could be "forced" to issue a 360K policy without addressing extreme sports. You sure about that?

Group plans work that way. There's a guaranteed issue amount and/or salary multiple. Underwriting questions only get asked and considered for policy values beyond the cap.

With my current group plan the number is a flat $100K. The last job was 4X salary on life insurance.

I've yet to see an extreme sports exclusion on a group plan. All of them since 9/11 have excluded acts of war and terrorism.

[airdvr 197]

Quote

Quote

Absolutley correct. I am talking about the laws in Ohio.

I haven't come across any Life policy that doesn't address extreme sports in some way, and provide an exclusion for those activities. I'm surprised that a carrier could be "forced" to issue a 360K policy without addressing extreme sports. You sure about that?

Group plans work that way. There's a guaranteed issue amount and/or salary multiple. Underwriting questions only get asked and considered for policy values beyond the cap.

With my current group plan the number is a flat $100K. The last job was 4X salary on life insurance.

I've yet to see an extreme sports exclusion on a group plan. All of them since 9/11 have excluded acts of war and terrorism.

I understand groups have a different set of rules.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne