wolfriverjoe 1,351 #26 August 23, 2009 QuoteI'm not sure it's so cut and dry that observers are not engaging in sport parachuting. It's an opinion, unless the FAA has made that determination. Dave To take this a little bit further... What about checking out a new pilot in a 182/206? My experience was that the trainee pilot flew the plane (and sat in the only seat) while the experienced pilot sat against the rear bulkhead for takeoff and was on his knees behind the pilot seat on jumprun. This is different from a normal "observer". Clearly he was not jumping, but he was participating in the skydive operation. Anyone with a legal opinion?"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_turner 0 #27 August 24, 2009 Quote Quote Quote For the record, I believe the decision whether or not to do them should be the DZO's. That is an interesting stance to take. Observers on planes that do not have seats is clearly a FAR violation. You think it should be up to the DZO to decide if he should follow the FARs? Do you feel the same way about airplane maintenance issues? Ryan Slow down, Sparky. I made the mistake of assuming people following this thread knew my stance when I made that post. If you look back, I'm the one that (in the original thread on "incidents") first mentioned that the incident appeared to violate FAR's. Any opinion I issue is predicated on following FAR's and - if the DZ is USPA - BSR's. However, there are legal observer rides too, ya know. When I say the decision should be the DZO's, I mean within existing laws. Now drink. Didn't mean for that last post to be as confrontational as it came out. I think we are both on the same page on this incident. Ryan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #28 August 25, 2009 QuoteI'm not sure it's so cut and dry that observers are not engaging in sport parachuting. It's an opinion, unless the FAA has made that determination. Dave Some info I've received is that the FAA is pretty pissed about this.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,148 #29 August 25, 2009 QuoteSome info I've received is that the FAA is pretty pissed about thisAre they pissed that observers are going, or that there is so much "interpretation" going on? BTW, I think in the scratching-the-lion's-balls department, I'd much rather piss of Sangiro than the FAA. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #30 August 25, 2009 Quote Some info I've received is that the FAA is pretty pissed about this. All of them? Wow, this must be big if everyone in the FAA is pissed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #31 August 25, 2009 Quote Quote Some info I've received is that the FAA is pretty pissed about this. All of them? Wow, this must be big if everyone in the FAA is pissed. Yes, all of them. I've been making a lot of phone calls asking. My bill is crazy big.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #32 August 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteI'm not sure it's so cut and dry that observers are not engaging in sport parachuting. It's an opinion, unless the FAA has made that determination. Dave To take this a little bit further... What about checking out a new pilot in a 182/206? My experience was that the trainee pilot flew the plane (and sat in the only seat) while the experienced pilot sat against the rear bulkhead for takeoff and was on his knees behind the pilot seat on jumprun. This is different from a normal "observer". Clearly he was not jumping, but he was participating in the skydive operation. Anyone with a legal opinion? OK. The exact language of the FAR refers to "for the purpose of engaging in sport parachuting". Someone interpreting it broadly would say it fits. A hardass would say it doesn't. Pay the girl on your way out, please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeJD 0 #33 August 26, 2009 Quote I REITERATE the importance of NOT walking into the prop more than once God, if they're going to do it twice then they really are starting to look careless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #34 August 27, 2009 QuoteI'm not sure it's so cut and dry that observers are not engaging in sport parachuting. It's an opinion, unless the FAA has made that determination. Dave That's a stretch. I'd bet a beer that if you ask an FAA type, they would say you aren't participating in "sport parachuting" if you're not planning on making a "sport parachute" jump.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudtramp 0 #35 August 27, 2009 Quote That's a stretch. I'd bet a beer that if you ask an FAA type, they would say you aren't participating in "sport parachuting" if you're not planning on making a "sport parachute" jump. what if the "observer" pushed the "sport parachutist" from the door? What if the "observer" was there as emotional support for a certain jumper? Would yelling positive encouragement in the airplane be considered participation??? might be.... what kind of beer are we talking about here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #36 August 28, 2009 If you need that much positive reinforcement,,,you should probably go the bowling route,,,if youre not digging it from the first time you probably never will,,,smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudtramp 0 #37 August 28, 2009 Quote If you need that much positive reinforcement,,,you should probably go the bowling route,,,if youre not digging it from the first time you probably never will joke. sarcasm. pointless post to add nothing to an inane internet "discussion" going on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
