swoopfly 5 #26 October 2, 2009 ahh i see now things are making more since. thanks for clarifying. yeah i have seen a diagram drawing which shows the plane and a line of belly flyer to ff. and how they drift more this is what made me think of the scenario how i did, but 20 or 30 seconds extra freefall i can see that would make a big difference in drift now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strop45 0 #27 October 2, 2009 QuoteYou are incorrect. Time/distance between exit and time in freefall drifting with the winds aloft determines separation...... time between exits will differ with winds alotTo be precise, its not the winds aloft that determine the required separation, its the difference between the wind at exit altitude and the winds at opening altitude that determines separation.The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #28 October 2, 2009 QuoteQuotewe exit freefliers before bellyflyers.. how many close calls have you guys had? none“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #29 October 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteYou are incorrect. Time/distance between exit and time in freefall drifting with the winds aloft determines separation...... time between exits will differ with winds alotTo be precise, its not the winds aloft that determine the required separation, its the difference between the wind at exit altitude and the winds at opening altitude that determines separation. Umm..no..it doesn't. After the exit seperation, the difference in freefall times and the distance covered because of wind drift during that time determaines separation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #30 October 2, 2009 Quote Quote Quote we exit freefliers before bellyflyers.. how many close calls have you guys had? none small airplane? but when i think of it, you could actually use it as benefit. freeflyers can exit sooner (before the LZ) and not drift as much as belly flyers. so if only belly flyers give enough seperation the last jumper wont be as far from the LZ. smart but very risky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #31 October 2, 2009 Quote fallrate shouldnt determine horizontal seperation. when everyone comes off the hill they settle into a straight down fall.( dosent matter if your belly or FF your going down in the same direction just different speeds).therfore the hill is what causes the horizontal seperation. following posts show you getting the wind drift contribution as the main cause. so I'll edit for the throw only scenario now - what about 'throw' (example) --- a no wind day.... in this case throwdoes affect separation - if you think about it - the FF get more throw than belly (belly decelerates more effective in the horizontal direction as they present more surface area) so you still want belly out first as the reduced throw increases separation from the faster falling groups however, on a no wind day, I think there's likely plenty of time between groups that it wouldn't matter anyway And - if there is a newbie (self proclaimed) "freeflyer" on the load. I also don't trust his flailing about either and might send him out first. I can add enough delay to still stay safe. and - people that obsess on tracking perpendicular to jump run (not a tracking dive, just separation tracking) are an annoyance - separation between groups should be sufficient for any track direction (even up and down flight lines) - but, on a 1 or 2 way it's an extra safety margin that (that we shouldn't need) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #32 October 2, 2009 Quote heres the stuff you are talking about: http://mypages.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive/ its the Downloadable freefall modeling program for Windows that can simulate a jump. look at the attached picture and you will see the result. i also suggest reading the powerpoint presentation. by the time i found out you guys were jumping it was too late to drive out there. i had a feeling there was jumping going on when i was driving home from work since the weather was... almost good That looks familiar.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brucet7 0 #33 October 2, 2009 The best way I got to understanding this is watching some army guys with smoke exit. I was several miles away and got to see the arch. It really helped understand the "real" throw versus what it "feels" like as we are exiting and come off the hill.POPS #10623; SOS #1672 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
