canopy advice

[kasch 0]

I'm still a student but I figured I'd start looking around because I know I'm going to be sticking with this sport for quite some time, God willing.

I have a torn labrum in my left shoulder which I'm in the process of taking care of (going to see the doctor about my options this Friday). Because of this I need, or will be needing, something with reliable soft openings that isn't fully elliptical. Last thing I want is to completely destory my shoulder.

I did some searches on canopies and ones with soft openings and read a lot of really great advice, but most of the posts were from 2002-2005.

So I'm posting this hoping to get some more current opinions on canopies that will give soft openings but also are accurate since I still need to hit near the peas a bunch of times for licenses.

I'm going to pick people's brains at The Ranch this weekend, but I figured I'd get what info I could here so I have a better idea what of questions to ask and whatnot.

Thanks!

Sex with sith is like sex with a stripper. A lot of flashing lights and waving of glowing sabers, but in the end you end up with something dark and wrinkely.

DPH# "-13"
TSK# "-13"

[DocPop 1]

There are a lot of factors to consider when choosing a canopy (without even going into what size you want). The best advice I can give is to demo some and find out what fits your needs.

Without knowing what qualities you are looking for in a wing (and you probably don't know yet yourself) here is a list of models you might want to consider when you are ready for your first canopy.

Navigator
Safire2
Sabre2
Pilot
Pulse
Spectre

There are probably others to consider.

With regards to openings, learn to be consistent with your packing - specifically ensuring the slider is right up to the stops and maintaining line tension.

Finally, for your shoulder - consider using one of these - http://www.painreliever.com/bauerfeind_omotrain.html.

Whatever you decide, speak to a number of different experienced jumpers and instructors to gather a range of opinions.

Good luck.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[davelepka 4]

Quote

something with reliable soft openings that isn't fully elliptical. Last thing I want is to completely destory my shoulder

How about something that's not fully eliptical so you don't destroy your whole body?

I don't care if you have 3 good shoulders, a fully eliptical canopy is not appropraite for anyone with less than a few hundred jumps.

Beyond that, the Spectre is known as the king of the soft openings, and is popular with the camera flyer crowd for just that reason.

Something to keep in mind - any canopy can, and will, open hard at one point or another (even the Spectre). Even if the Spectre behaves itself, your resereve is likely to open hard in the event of a high speed or total malfunction. Be aware of this when jumping with an injury or chronic condition, it becomes an added risk factor.

[kasch 0]

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll read up on them and definitely ask around my DZ.

I picked up a shoulder brace a few weeks ago, not that one, but it gets the job done
I was reading in some older posts about using brass grommets in the slider instead of steel and dacron lines for some give on opening. Worthwhile for when I get my own rig?

Sex with sith is like sex with a stripper. A lot of flashing lights and waving of glowing sabers, but in the end you end up with something dark and wrinkely.

DPH# "-13"
TSK# "-13"

[kasch 0]

Quote

Quote

something with reliable soft openings that isn't fully elliptical. Last thing I want is to completely destory my shoulder

How about something that's not fully eliptical so you don't destroy your whole body?

Read that a bit fast?

Sex with sith is like sex with a stripper. A lot of flashing lights and waving of glowing sabers, but in the end you end up with something dark and wrinkely.

DPH# "-13"
TSK# "-13"

[davelepka 4]

No, I didn't read it fast, you stated your needs in terms of your shoulder condition as being 'reliable soft openings and not fully eliptical'.

I'm not sre what your impression of eliptical canopies is, but the only problem with them (in your case) is their control sensitivity. Without a few hundered jumps of experiecne to fall back on, that sensitivity can bite you in the ass.

Apart from that, there is no added risk to jumping an eliptical canopy. In truth, the Stiletto and the Crossfire, both eliptical, have great soft openings and are a pleasure to fly.

[kasch 0]

Oh I see. I thought they had harder openings :) thats good to know then for the future if/when I'm ever ready for them.

Would a tapered be alright for a novice to handle do you think or should I stick with rectangle for awhile?

Sex with sith is like sex with a stripper. A lot of flashing lights and waving of glowing sabers, but in the end you end up with something dark and wrinkely.

DPH# "-13"
TSK# "-13"

[DocPop 1]

Quote

Would a tapered be alright for a novice to handle do you think or should I stick with rectangle for awhile?

Lightly tapered canopies can be fine for newer jumpers if appropriately loaded. Have a look at http://www.performancedesigns.com/pd.asp, the Spectre, Pulse and Sabre2 are all lightly tapered and are recommended in the "Novice" category.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[davelepka 4]

The Spectre has a taper, so does the Sabre2 and the Pilot. Those are probably the top three 'first' canopies on the market. Like I said above, the Spectre probably has the best openings out of all of them. The others are good, but just not as good as the Spectre.

In general, the performance or size of a canopy has nothing to do with the quality of the openings. Most of the X-braced canopies, the highest perofrmance wings available, have extra slow openings. In today's market, a hard opening canopy would just never sell, nobody would want that.

Any of the three listed above would work. Avoid any original Sabre or Monarch canopies if you're looking to buy used. Some of them were OK, and some not so OK, and you never know which is which.

An RSl or Skyhook is a great idea as well. They are an obvious safety benefit, but in your case could prove extra useful. In the event of a cutaway, any delay between cutting away and pulling the reserve will only increase your airpseed and possibility for having a hard opening on your reserve. The RSL or Skyhook will get the reserve out ASAP after the cutaway, keep the airpseed to a minimum.

[virgin-burner 1]

dont forget about the safire2, known for it's super-soft, consistent openings.. something the sabre2 is not known for..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[kasch 0]

I was reading some descriptions from DZ.com and the manufactuers websites on the canopies Doc listed.

Based off what I read I'm toward the Safire2 or the Pilot, Spectre looks good also.

Guess I'll take what you've all suggested, plus what I've read and ask around at my DZ this weekend. And of course I'll test some out once I'm licensed :)

Thank you all for the input! if you think of anything else I'm all ears

edit: oh and i liked the descriptuion of the pulse too. i'll check out Silhouette as well

Sex with sith is like sex with a stripper. A lot of flashing lights and waving of glowing sabers, but in the end you end up with something dark and wrinkely.

DPH# "-13"
TSK# "-13"

[fasted3 0]

Quote

Navigator
Safire2
Sabre2
Pilot
Pulse
Spectre

There are probably others to consider.

Silhouette

But what do I know?

[virgin-burner 1]

if i were you, i'd go safire2 or pilot.. your mileage may vary!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Sangi 0]

All sail JVX with full RDS and nothing bigger than 70 sqft.

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[billvon 2,406]

In skydiving, your shoulder gets far more abuse in freefall and under canopy than during openings.

For soft openings at moderate wingloadings I'd recommend a Pilot or Safire2. The Spectre is about as soft as you can get but you have to give up a bit of flare and glide.

All modern parachutes are as accurate as their pilot is. For true (i.e. steep) accuracy approaches, you can get canopies designed for that (i.e. a Parafoil) but they're not very good for general skydiving (big and do not land like modern canopies.)

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

In skydiving, your shoulder gets far more abuse in freefall and under canopy than during openings.

Not to mention on exits - that seems to be where my shoulders (both of 'em now!) get jacked up ...

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[DocPop 1]

Quote

All sail JVX with full RDS and nothing bigger than 70 sqft.

Says the guy jumping a Falcon 195!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[kasch 0]

Quote

Not to mention on exits - that seems to be where my shoulders (both of 'em now!) get jacked up ...

Mine seems to not like docking. Pressure straight on I'm fine with, its when my arm does anything like an over head activity that it seems to want to slide around in the joint. But that will be taken care of soon I hope.

Anyway, seems like I got some really good advice here, thank you all. Just going to have to test them in a few weeks for myself and see which I'm most comfortable with, but I have a good idea of what I'm after now at least! Thank you all!

Sex with sith is like sex with a stripper. A lot of flashing lights and waving of glowing sabers, but in the end you end up with something dark and wrinkely.

DPH# "-13"
TSK# "-13"

[DocPop 1]

One more thing - make sure you think about how you are going to do the following things with one shoulder dislocated:

1. Deploy your parachute
2. Perform EPs
3. Flare for landing.

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[kasch 0]

I'm going to practice this weekend using only my right hand a few times to see how it works out. Haven't jumpes since it subluxed on me a couple weeks ago, but it feels stronger again despite the tear. So I'll wear the brace and give it a whirl, if it goes well I'll do a few jumps and practice with the right til I feel reasonabally comfortable with it. :)

(unless of course the doctor gives me a flat out no Friday when I go see him.) *fingers crossed!!*

Sex with sith is like sex with a stripper. A lot of flashing lights and waving of glowing sabers, but in the end you end up with something dark and wrinkely.

DPH# "-13"
TSK# "-13"

[virgin-burner 1]

be careful, we had a guy that got his shoulder out in freefall, no collision occured.. he wore a brace, came back a couple months later, did a jump and had the same thing happening again; he doesnt jump anymore..

maybe go to the gym and build up some muscles, despite what the doctor says, and not rush it!? this could be very helpful..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[kasch 0]

i did the gym thing :) the muscle is well built, which is why i went to the doctor becuase it was still happening. actually i was a-ok through most of AFF until a couple weeks ago on a coach jump. i remained calm and my shoulder went back in place but has been sore ever since...so i finally went and had an MRI. this was all in another thread actually but anyway, we'll see what the doctor says. worst comes to worse i'll just have surgery, let it heal, and do the necessary PT.

i will not give up skydiving! i just fell in love with it, its too soon to part ways

Sex with sith is like sex with a stripper. A lot of flashing lights and waving of glowing sabers, but in the end you end up with something dark and wrinkely.

DPH# "-13"
TSK# "-13"

[virgin-burner 1]

you did that and it's still happening!?

it's not enough and you keep going!?

u risk a loose shoulder on you pull-hand, another time!?

good luck with all that..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[kasch 0]

it did get A LOT better after the gym. use to happen all the time, now its not as frequent. but i guess when it happened in freefall it really messed it up...so thats where i'm at now. i'm anxious to hear what the doctor says friday though. i'll make a post after just in case anyone is inerested :)

Sex with sith is like sex with a stripper. A lot of flashing lights and waving of glowing sabers, but in the end you end up with something dark and wrinkely.

DPH# "-13"
TSK# "-13"

[virgin-burner 1]

i'd hate to break the news to you, but skydiving wont make it better..

another guy at the dz even had surgery, he's our manifest-bitch now when he visits..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda