Crabbing and Cross Wind Long Spot

[chbrook 0]

What is the proper way to "crab" under canopy? I know I was taught this but I don't think I'm doing it correctly. I'm basically looking for the correct basic body position in harness and the correct riser/toggle inputs?

Also, any opinions on the best way to get back from a long spot when you have to fly cross wind i.e. rear risers/brakes etc. This would be a jump with no alternate landing area i.e. a water jump into the ocean trying to land close to a set of boats.

Tks in adv for the ideas and input.

Chuck

[JohnRich 4]

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What is the proper way to "crab" under canopy? I know I was taught this but I don't think I'm doing it correctly. I'm basically looking for the correct basic body position in harness and the correct riser/toggle inputs?

Turn 90-degrees to the wind.

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Also, any opinions on the best way to get back from a long spot when you have to fly cross wind i.e. rear risers/brakes etc. This would be a jump with no alternate landing area i.e. a water jump into the ocean trying to land close to a set of boats.

Same as any other orientation in the wind.

[davelepka 4]

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Tks in adv for the ideas and input.

Here's an idea, don't jump over the ocean unless you are 100% sure in your ability to handle and type of spot or wind shift.

Get some live coaching from a real person, and include dedicated jumps with a long cross-wind spot, but with plenty of outs between exit and the LZ. Avoid jumping over open water unless you can make it to the LZ and accurately land in a 5m circle 10 times of out 10.

[chbrook 0]

Thanks for the input, but these aren't sport jumps these are work jumps (military). Obviously we get a lot of training but I was just looking for ideas etc from the sport jumping community.

[JohnMitchell 14]

I'm guessing you're a novice jumping a larger canopy. Crabbing is flying the canopy almost into a strong wind, but turned slightly off the direct wind line, left or right, so that your ground track, or path across the surface, is moving sideways. This is your motion relative to the ground. The canopy is not really flying sideways. It is still flying straight through the air at its normal gliding speed. Therefore, once you have turned the canopy to the right heading for the crab direction you want, the correct toggle inputs are up and neutral for straight flight. As always, most canopies require gentle steering corrections from time to time to keep them pointed in the right direction.

How to get back from a long spot? Wow, that's a question with more variables than I can cover here. You asked about body position. Putting your knees together and pulling them up to your chest will reduce your drag, which will always improve your range and speed.

Rule of thumb is, if the wind is helping you back to the DZ, use 1/4 brakes or a few inches rear risers. This will make your canopy "float", or come down more slowly. You'll stay in the tail wind longer, and make more progress back to the DZ.

If you're driving into the wind, you should have both toggles all the way up for full flight. In extreme cases, where you're flying into a strong wind and coming straight down or even backing up, pull down some on the front risers. You will trade off a lot of altitude for an increase in forward speed, dramatically shortening your time under canopy, but it may get you enough forward progress to make the DZ, or at least clear the powerlines.

There are some excellent books by great canopy pilots out there. Brian Germain comes to mind readily. Also there are some very good canopy courses taught. Seeing as how open canopies are one of the most dangerous things in our sport, I'm glad to see you working on your flying skills.

[pilotdave 0]

Crabbing doesn't require any (constant) input. Just aim a little into the wind until you have the desired path over the ground.

As for getting back from a long spot, nothing changes. All that matters is the tailwind or headwind component. Crabbing will probably decrease the tailwind component, so it will be equivalent to flying back from a long spot with less wind helping. If it's a pure crosswind you're correcting for, you'll crab into it causing a headwind component. Chances are you won't want any input that'll slow your canopy down in that case.

Dave

[JohnMitchell 14]

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What is the proper way to "crab" under canopy? I know I was taught this but I don't think I'm doing it correctly. I'm basically looking for the correct basic body position in harness and the correct riser/toggle inputs?

Turn 90-degrees to the wind.

Naw, 90's too much for a true crab, sideways across the ground. Depending on the wind strength, it's a smaller angle. Only under no-wind conditions would 90 degrees to the "wind" take you on a perpendicular path.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Thanks for the input, but these aren't sport jumps these are work jumps (military). Obviously we get a lot of training but I was just looking for ideas etc from the sport jumping community.

Well now I see this after I wrote an epic tome.

Are you on round chutes or squares? I've jumped both.

[airtwardo 6]

I think of it as swimming across a strong current in a river, & you can only swim just so long and so fast...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[billvon 2,406]

>What is the proper way to "crab" under canopy?

Open your parachute. Point it towards your target. Draw an imaginary line on the ground from you to your target. If you are drifting downwind of that line, turn into the wind, and keep turning until you are back on the line and going straight. Then keep the canopy pointed in that direction and fly to the target.

> I'm basically looking for the correct basic body position in harness

Whatever you do normally.

>and the correct riser/toggle inputs?

Whatever you do normally to fly straight.

>Also, any opinions on the best way to get back from a long spot when you
>have to fly cross wind i.e. rear risers/brakes etc.

Generally if you have a downwind component full flight works best. If you're upwind at all brakes help.

[LouDiamond 1]

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Thanks for the input, but these aren't sport jumps these are work jumps (military). Obviously we get a lot of training but I was just looking for ideas etc from the sport jumping community.

Are you jumping round(static line) canopies or RAM/MC-4 systems?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[chbrook 0]

Thanks for the input, I think I understand what I was doing wrong.

There was no choice in gear, the canopies are old F-111 260's used only on water jumps, the large size is for carrying a ton of equipment. My weight 190 + 30 lbs rig + 40 lbs pack.

[davelepka 4]

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Thanks for the input, but these aren't sport jumps these are work jumps (military)

Oh, military jump, that changes everything.

In that case, I would get live training from a real person, to include dedicated jumps with a long crosswind spot with plenty of outs between the exit point and the LZ. Then, I would avoid jumping over open water until you can land accrately on the LZ within a 5m circle 10 times out of ten.

I don't care why you're making these jumps, the techniques used are all the same for any square parachute. Working with the wind is a double edged sword, as sometimes it helps you and sometimes it hurts you, and the same goes for canopy inputs. In some cases they help, and in others they hurt.

Learning the in's and out's of canopy flight is essential for knowing how to deal with any situation you might encoutner. Learning how to do one thing, and expecting that the conditions will always prevail making that one thing the right thing is asking for trouble. Doing that over open water is asking to drown.

I'll repeat, get live coaching, and learn how to work a canopy in every direction, with every input, and in every wind condition. This way no matter what 'shit happens', you are preparred to fly your canopy to the best of it's abilities.

[chbrook 0]

Lou,

No static line, RAM Air canopy but really outdated F-111's only used for salt water jumps. They are very old.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Thanks for the input, I think I understand what I was doing wrong.

There was no choice in gear, the canopies are old F-111 260's used only on water jumps, the large size is for carrying a ton of equipment. My weight 190 + 30 lbs rig + 40 lbs pack.

Ah, square canopies, but very low performance. Yep, all the stuff we wrote above applies. Those older canopies, especially after being drug through the water a few times, are very porous, and therefore lower performance. You only have X amount of range for Y amount of altitude. Some days you just can't get there from here. Aim for a pick up boat.