Total Newb Q: Landing Angles

[KollegeKay 0]

Greetings!

So I get confused when it comes to the angles and landing. Could someone please explain it to me... Is the angle from me in the air down to the ground, or the angle from the ground up to me???

More importantly, is there an easy way to remember this? The easy one to remember is medium wind is 45 degrees, but how do you really use angles to land? *confused*

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
---Kollege Kay--,--'-@
Newbie Skydiver

[theonlyski 3]

Quote

More importantly, is there an easy way to remember this? The easy one to remember is medium wind is 45 degrees, but how do you really use angles to land? *confused*

It's not so much about defined angles, as it is a dynamic sight picture, one that takes a little while to get dialed in.

Eventually you'll 'see' it and it clicks in your mind, then it becomes less about setting angles and more about determining your glide slope for a given set of conditions and adjusting it so you land where you want to (while keeping an eye out for the people trying to kill you)

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[pchapman 261]

Sounds like there's a lot you need to learn so a few words isn't going to clear it all up.

There's no set way to talk about angles; one could talk about a flight path that's 60 degrees from the vertical or 30 from the horizontal; same thing. One might commonly talk about a descent angle, which is from the horizontal. (30 degrees in this example)

The angle of one's flightpath will depend on the wind and the canopy you fly and whether you are in brakes. There are therefore no set angles to use; you'll just get a visual estimate for your own canopy over time.

But very roughly, if you want to think of medium wind as 45 degrees under a typical student canopy, then think of 20 - 25 degrees descent angle in very light wind, and if the descent angle is almost 90 degrees, it is too windy for you.

How do you use it? Well, if you are trying to land at a particular spot, work your way backwards from the target, back into the air: If the winds are light and you want to hit that spot, you need to be on final somewhere along a line extending up 25 degrees from that target. If you are expecting to turn final at about 300 ft, that means you'll need to be (let me calculate) about 650 ft from the target horizontally when you start that final approach.

Of course in the air you don't start doing trig and repeating SOHCAHTOA to yourself -- it's all visual estimation of angles.

You may end up being wrong about the wind on any particular jump, but if you have some idea of the wind, you'll be able to make some plan about the path you'll have to take to get to the target landing area.

[skr 1]

> Is the angle from me in the air down to the ground, or the angle from the ground up to me???

They're both the same size so you think in terms of
whichever helps you the most.

It's hard to come up with a simple rule so instead
you have to take advantage of your brain's amazing
ability to see patterns as you accumulate landing
experiences, so try approaching each jump like this:

Before the jump watch the wind socks and what other
jumpers are doing and make a plan. Use an aerial photo
if you need to.

The plan is something like this: In these conditions
I'll start my downwind leg here and go to here, turn
90 and fly my cross wind leg to here, turn 90 and fly
my upwind leg from here to the target.

Of course when you're starting there's a lot of guess
work, plus other jumpers get in the way, the wind
changes and so on.

But the point is that having a concrete plan and trying
to fly it really helps you see all the stuff that comes up
that pushes you off of your planned path, and that helps
your pattern detecting brain to start sorting out what's
causing what.

So basically this is the universe telling you to make
as many jumps as you can right away :-) :-)

Besides paying attention another thing that really helps
is to find some good role models to hang out with.

Skr

[nickfrey 0]

Forget about the angles... In the end its just like throwing a baseball, you figure it out with experiance and some do it better then others. Nobody thinks about the math behind it, they just throw the ball.

[KollegeKay 0]

Well, I only ask because my instructor keeps emphasizing the angle I should come in at. In my head I'm going, "what angles, I don't get it." Before I go up, I have to explain my landing pattern anyways, I always just say if it will be a longer final leg or a short one based on the wind. Even if I land on my feet and in the landing area, the one instructor/examiner asks me, "what angle were you suppose to come in at? Work on that."

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
---Kollege Kay--,--'-@
Newbie Skydiver

[pchapman 261]

Quote

the one instructor/examiner asks me, "what angle were you suppose to come in at? Work on that."

Maybe he's the one overthinking it. There's no angle you are "supposed to " come in at. There will be an angle that you WILL descend at due to the physics of weight, parachute, and winds. But you'll never know ahead of time exactly what will happen.

Still, as as student you are expected to have recall of your jump, and if you can articulate how you ended up in the right landing area, you can better analyze and repeat that. Even if in the end things become "instinctive", when learning one often has to break things down into specific tasks and knowledge.

EDIT:
As Shropshire says in the post after this one, don't get hung up on exact angles. Nobody cares if you descended at 34.5 degrees. All you care about is that you recognize that your descent path seems to be what you get when the winds are for example a little above light and into the moderate range.

You try to predict what angle you'll descend, by looking at a wind meter and forecasts and windsock and other jumpers before the jump, and by looking at the windsock when flying your canopy close to the DZ and also by looking at your forward speed under canopy when doing wind checks, and by using the accuracy trick to estimate your glide angle when doing wind checks when lower down. All that is used to predict where you should start your final approach in terms of angle from the target area.

[shropshire 0]

The only time that I've 'thought' about angles (and then not that much to get all bent out of shape about it) is in a Constant Aspect Approach and the Accuracy 'trick' - but those are all about relative angles not exact Numeric Values (could be someone has the wrong end of the stick. perhaps?)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[TEB6363 0]

Quote

In my head I'm going, "what angles, I don't get it."... Even if I land on my feet and in the landing area, the one instructor/examiner asks me, "what angle were you suppose to come in at? Work on that."

This would be a great thing to ASK your instructor before the next jump - heck, I don't even know what angles you (or he) are talking about.. Maybe an "angle" into the wind, maybe the "angle" you turned onto final (such as cutting the base leg short) and maybe it is the vertical angle of your approach...

Ask for a "chalk talk" and see if he can draw on the board what you flew last jump and then to draw what he expects you to do...

Hey, I'm a visual learner

edited for my sucky spelling

Once the plane takes off, you're gonna have to land - Might as well jump out!!

[KollegeKay 0]

I feel like I have asked for an explanation too many times because it is like they speak a foreign language to me about ANGLES. I get that low wing will have a longer final leg, I say that to my main instructor, but after I land, he always asks, "What angle did you come in at? Work on your angle."

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
---Kollege Kay--,--'-@
Newbie Skydiver

[shropshire 0]

I still can not work out what he is asking you - so I see no reason why you should be embarrassed to ask him to make himself VERY clear again.

He could even come on here and explain it to all of us too.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jrmrangers 0]

This is not a knock on you so dont get mad, but continuing to jump even though your not understanding the instuctions can lead to bad things. In this case you are surviving it so far but its a bad way to learn. I like the idea of maybe having an instructor draw it out on paper for you, maybe that will make it click. Even though you may think your doing well your instructors may be seeing something thats putting you at risk in the pattern. Instructors are there to answer questions and make sure you learn correctly so dont feel bad about trying to get this straitened out. Good luck and Blue Skies!!

Wait , I pull what first?

[KollegeKay 0]

This past weekend I had my coach draw it out and told him straight out, I don't get the angles that my instructor had emphasized, however, I understood that low winds means longer final etc. I always understood how I would come in on the final, but to actually make it match an angle is where it confuses me. (I struggle in little-to-no wind)

My coach gave me a different way to look at it instead of thinking angles, he said look to the horizon and look for the spot that is consistent, not the tree line that moves up as you come down. That has helped.

Overall, I have good timing with flare, but in low winds it is bring it all the way down on time to stay on my feet. Another instructor had said try bringing it down in front of me (like I would do for a PLF). I had an awesome landing this weekend after working through it with my coach and performing the picnic table exercise.

Picnic table exercise: Practice walking over the table while keeping my eyes on the horizon (repeat until comfortable to move on)... then repeat, but add concentrating on breathing (in and out)... then repeat, but add listening to the traffic from the highway... then repeat, but add clapping your hands

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
---Kollege Kay--,--'-@
Newbie Skydiver

[MakeItHappen 15]

see
http://makeithappen.com/spsj/gethome.htm
http://makeithappen.com/spsj/highwindpatterns.html

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[jrmrangers 0]

Well I'm glad you got it sorted out. Again I wasn't trying to knock you just trying to pass on the little bit of knowledge I've absorbed in my brief time in the sport!

Wait , I pull what first?

[TEB6363 0]

Good Job working it out with the staff...

Students teach me a lot about MY communication skills... If you don't understand - I"M not saying it right

Once the plane takes off, you're gonna have to land - Might as well jump out!!