There I was

[Poczynek 0]

During this past weekend enjoying my favorite escape, I found myself breaking off and tracking away from a five way that went bad close to our planned 4,000 ft break-off. The group scattered and I found myself tracking too close to the jumper on my right at about the same altitude - so I adjusted my track to the left, and near pull noticed a wave off below me and slightly to my left - I was most likely about to eat a pilot chute for lunch - when to my most appreciative surprise and gratitude the jumper looked up - saw me - smiled and waited for me to deploy first. It was some of the most heads up skydiving I have seen - and from this day forward will encorporate the wave off - that look and smile before the pull. Thanks heads-up.

phat, dumb & happy

[johnny1488 1]

Most people seem to just go through the motions and dont know why. I like a quick barrelroll at the end of my track but the end result is the same.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[Tinystiletto 0]

Thats funny, I thought I was the only one who enjoyed a rolling look at the sky above before deploying.....8)~


Jazz

[riddler 0]

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a rolling look at the sky

Most of the time, it's flop over on my back, then flop over on my belly. My barrel rolls aren't so good.

I once did a raft jump that went awry and everyone just started free-flying. Lesson 1 - don't change the jump, even when things go wrong. About half of us were sitting and the other half head-down, so they went pretty far below us. Another lesson - when free-flying in groups, try to keep the same altitude. Anyway, the track away happened and I tracked over one of the head-down people. I moved, he moved. I moved again he moved again. Bad luck, but he managed to stay beneath me on the entire track. He waved off. I crapped my pants. Then he barrel-rolled - saw me - tracked at 90 degrees, and I tracked the other direction at 90 degrees. He was wrong to go head-down while others were sitting. I was wrong to not immediately get away from that situation, and also wrong to not pull when I saw him wave. But the fact that he was heads-up enough to look before pulling may have saved us both.

I now "check my back" (i.e. roll over) before pulling on all dives.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[listo 0]

well, hind site is always 20/20. It could be said that he was wrong for going head down, but at the same time, you could have been wrong for not going to your belly and tracking away when you reallized that you couldn't keep up. Always go to the low man on a free fly jump. After all, you don't want someone corking up into you.

A barrell roll at the end of any track to pull situation is a good thing. The fact that your buddy did that probably saved both of you. It is a really good idea to do it on any jump, but even more important on free fly jumps because of the fact the free flying is 3 dimensional. Always clear your space before dumping.


Listo

[riddler 0]

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you could have been wrong for not going to your belly and tracking away when you reallized that you couldn't keep up.

That's what I meant when I said:

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I was wrong to not immediately get away from that situation

Kind of interesting situations they never tell you about in AFF - nor should they, I guess. Situations like this are the reason that FF coaching is a good idea. To learn how to be safe, if nothing else.

It brings up lots of possibilities. We were still pretty high when it started (~10,000 feet AGL), and at the time at this DZ, there was no rule about tracking in a particular direction. That has since been changed to tracking only perpendicular to the runway. But at the time, it would be possible for me to screw someone in the *following* group by tracking into their column of air. In the case of this jump, there were three head-down and four sit-flyers, so you potentially have four people tracking in all different directions.

I go back to planning the jump and jumping your plan as the biggest issue. No one talked before about free-flying if things went bad, and the head-downers had no idea the rest of us could only sit. Even then, not everyone caught on right away, so the head-down were all trying to catch up to each other, and the sit-flyers were at many different levels. Bad Ju-ju.

[Deleted 0]

I was most likely about to eat a pilot chute for lunch - when to my most appreciative surprise and gratitude the jumper looked up - saw me - smiled and waited for me to deploy first. It was some of the most heads up skydiving I have seen - and from this day forward will encorporate the wave off - that look and smile before the pull. Thanks heads-up.

Couple of questions for you:

1. What altitude were you all at when you realised you were about to have a pilot chute for lunch?

2. What altitude did you pull?

3. Did Mr Heads-up go much lower?

4. Does anyone know of any sort of skydiver safety award that Mr. Heads-up may qualify for? Shouldn't we recognise those who keep the skies safe for all?

My thoughts are that this guy just may have smoked it down on your behalf lower than usual. If that's the case, were you all acutely aware of your height?

Did you buy him lunch (which is a much better meal than you eating his pilot chute, as may have happened)?

Thanks for the post. I'll make my look and wave more aggressive in future. Oh yeah, and will try to smile while doing it, as you now suggest.

[Poczynek 0]

Jimbo99,
our break off altitude was a 4,000, I normaly track to 3,000 then set up for deployment (wave & slight sit up) before pilot shute throw out, usually resulting in an under canopy altitude of between 2,400 - 2,200 depending on my snivel. In this particular situation both myself and Heads-up were several hundred feet below that - opening at 1,800 to 1,600 due to a second or so spent assessing the situation. This lower then optimal (normal) opening atitude was one of my primary reasons for posting this under safety and training. In this situation altitude was traded for clear airspace. A situation that should be avoided. In this case our actions worked out OK, and several lessons learned with no injuries. I totally agree with you - good safe skydiving does need to be recognized - and yes Mr. Heads-Up was and will be treated to a liquid lunch anytime the opportunity presents itself.
Cheers

phat, dumb & happy

[flyhi 24]

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near pull noticed a wave off below me and slightly to my left - I was most likely about to eat a pilot chute for lunch

This exact situation can also occur on an RW jump where someone goes low, "decides" he can't make it back in, and tracks off from some insanely high altitude. If that person then decides he has surely tracked far enough away from the group and pulls at or a little higher altitude than planned, he has put the entire group in jeopardy. If you go low on RW, you have to keep trying to get back in. If nothing else, the heads up skydivers on the load will at least know where you are at break-off time.

If you remain low throughout the whole jump, then when you track away, you have to pull no higher than your personal lowest altitude. If you pull higher, the opportunity exists for someone else in the formation to track through your deploying canopy.

I believe one of our brothers is no longer with us because this exact situation occurred on a big-way attempt.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[Deleted 0]

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Jimbo99,
I totally agree with you - good safe skydiving does need to be recognized - and yes Mr. Heads-Up was and will be treated to a liquid lunch anytime the opportunity presents itself.
Cheers

Hey,

I've been meaning to reply earlier .... but time got away from me - just as altitude got away from you that day ...

So are we allowed to know who this Mr. Heads-Up is? What's his liquid lunch preference and even I'll send him a six-pack.

J

[JayhawkJumper 0]

It's definately important to get away from people and always watch out for other jumpers while doing so, but if this guy looked over his shoulder at you when you were about to eat a pilot chute, it probably wasn't going to hit you. You can't look 180 degrees behind you so you were above him and off to the side, if you were directly above, he wouldn't have seen you (unless he rolled over). I always look very carefully at the area below me when tracking and I trust other jumpers to do the same. I've thought about barrel rolling, but I might miss someone zipping under me at the last second, but I might also see someone directly above me.... gray area I guess. Bottom line: get the #@$*% away from people after a jump.

[fergs 0]

So are we allowed to know who this Mr. Heads-Up is? What's his liquid lunch preference and even I'll send him a six-pack.

J

[fergs 0]

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but if this guy looked over his shoulder at you when you were about to eat a pilot chute, it probably wasn't going to hit you. You can't look 180 degrees behind you so you were above him and off to the side.

Hey Jayhawk,

I disagree somewhat. I know that I can flare out of a track, and while in a situp position can see virtually directly above me. I agree that a twist of the body is definately required, but that's exactly what I've been doing for 30 years and it seems to have been working.

If Mr HeadsUp did something like that, then Pocyznec could indeed have been directly above him and in definate danger of eating pilot chute.

I certainly don't want to open any controversial discussion on how to see above in or after a track - but will simply continue to do what I've always done at the end of an RW jump - track to clear sky, sit up, look (directly) above, also check around as well, if all clear, pull.

Blue Skies and have fun, life is good

fergs

[fergs 0]

Jimbo,

you out there? Just saw this old post and thought it appropriate to revitalise

f