MakeItHappen 15 #51 April 5, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt's "nice" to cover such costs, but it's also nice to make gear rental affordable to new jumpers, and those two objectives can sometimes be at odds. Quite. That's where I'm at. My goal is to provide only up to date, current model rental equipment - and that stuff ain't cheap even at dealer prices. But I also have a goal of having happy customers; I want the rental agreement to be considered a fair arrangement by the majority of them. Just to make it more real-life… Would a retailer 'pay-for-repack' policy be associated with the rental of the main or the rental of the H&C??? The failure of the main is what precipitates the use of the reserve , except for the occasional loss of altitude awareness and subsequent AAD fire. My impression of the folks that want the retailer to pay for a repack are thinking of the case when someone rents a complete rig - maybe even all packed up. Perhaps there is some policy carry-over from student rental gear policy? Students rent gear all packed up. They do not have to pay for handles, AAD fires or repacks. I think handing the customer a main separate from the H&C is the way to go. So you get two customers. A rents only a main or maybe demos a main for free and uses his rig. B rents the entire rig with the main detached. Assume that the rental rig that B used was identical to the rig owned by A. Both jumpers were handed a main disconnected from the rig. Both jumpers had the main attached and packed identically. Both rigs get packed (I don't care by who & that really shouldn't matter). Let's say they both have a total because of a packing error. Should a retailer pay for the repack? New packer now… (that guy was no good anyway) Let's say they both have mega line twists & are spinning on their back. They cutaway and pull reserve. Should a retailer pay for the repack? Another new packer…. Let's say that both jumpers lose altitude awareness. The AAD fires and they land under a reserve. Should a retailer pay for the repack? Insurance: I'd nix that idea. A large California retailer once offered gear insurance on stuff they sold. They ended it within a few (2) years. There are not enough people that will buy insurance to provide the capital for payouts. There was also another mfg that offered insurance. They too stopped it rather quickly. Most jumpers think 'You pay your money and take your chances.' What the market will bear: The market will bear a policy of rental fee plus extra if you use the reserve and/or cypres. This keeps the rental cost as low as possible. [You make more people 'happy'.] The people that have a malfunction pay their way with no additional burden to those that pack properly. [Most jumpers will be agreeable with this policy. Those that are not, are probably those customers you don't want anyway.] .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #52 April 5, 2004 If I rent a rig and then have a reserve ride (no matter who packed it), I would expect to pay for the reserve repack. I would also expect to pay for any part of the gear that I lost or damaged. Pro-rating the repack sounds like a good idea though... It's not something I would expect, but I would think you were a really nice person to do that for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #53 April 5, 2004 QuoteI'd say someone is obligated to return everything they rented. In the condition they rented it. I could rent a car and return it as a wreck. Should I be responsible for having it repaired/replaced? Yes. If I'm smart I'll buy insurance for just that scenario if it's offered.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #54 April 5, 2004 Quote. If everything comes back to you, why should the renter have to pay extra for USING a specific part of the rig? Because it was not returned in the condition in which it was rented. To use the rental car analogy several people have used here, if you return the car with a flat tire, and the spare used you could argue that all the parts are there. You'd still be responsible for fixing the car.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #55 April 5, 2004 Diablopilot, what's the policy where you work?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #56 April 5, 2004 I'm not entirely certain that that's a fair comparison. Or if you want to compare renting a car, how about if we say, well, for $50 a day, you can rent this car and use only the gas and the steering wheel. But if you want to use the brakes, that'll be $75. If nothing is MISSING/DAMAGED (which fits in with your rental car theory), the renter shouldn't be responsible. If you rent out a rig, you rent out the whole thing, not one piece. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #57 April 5, 2004 I agree with you. If you rent a car and trash it but not visibly, you pay for nothing. It's not a fair comparison.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #58 April 5, 2004 I don't know. The Perris Valley DZ location of Square 1 is seperate from My location, and we don't deal in demo gear. I'll find out from one of our people who works at the DZ store. I am pretty sure the agreement includes the customer being responsible for all the gear, and the repack costs if needed.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,149 #59 April 5, 2004 If we're going to go with the rental car analogy, the fair one might be what if you returned the car undamaged, but the air bags had been deployed? Who would be expected to pay for them? Because it's a significant expense. I'd imagine they'd request that you pay for them... It's not part of normal wear and tear, which is what rental normally covers. And you're always welcome to dicker with them, which may or may not have any effect on the eventual outcome. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #60 April 5, 2004 yes, square1 does charge for the repack and the lost gear. They make you get the repack done at the loft, which charges $15-$20 more than most riggers at the DZ, even the school riggers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #61 April 5, 2004 FYI, no one other than the loft is "allowed" to conduct rigging business on the Perris DZ. They pay for the conssesion. The "school" riggers are only suposed to be working on "school" gear.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #62 April 5, 2004 If they deployed, and there is no other damage to the car, I'd say they malfunctioned... and it should be the rental agencies expence... like say a premature cypress fire, or other premature reserve deployment due to gear malfunction... again, I would see this as the rental agencies expence... If I rented gear and had to use the reserve, I would expect to pay for the repack, and any lost parts, assuming the price of the rental was not inflated to cover such items. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #63 April 7, 2004 Quote If i gave them my rig and they packed a mal, i would expect to have to pay for it. A mal can be caused by many different things... and it cannot be determined where fault lies with 100% certainty. Body position has a lot to do with malfuctions on the smaller sport canopies that many are jumping. Well you do have a good point there, one I forgot to consider and that is body position. I guess I am just used to coming more from a packer's standpoint. I felt responsible for the openings I gave my customers and friends and their feedback made me a better packer. Me personally, if I pack someone a more than likely packing error mal, I would give them a free repack or pay for their repack. I don't know that I would necessarily "expect" anyone to pay for my repack although if I am a new jumper at a DZ and rent gear from the DZ and the 1st jump I put on it is a mal, if I was a business owner, from a business standpoint, I would opt to be like sorry, better luck next time. Good job saving your life and can we offer you another rig? If I remember correctly where I used to pack mains we used to pay for the repack if we packed a mal. Occassionally someone made a mistake although it was extremely rare and the lineover on a tandem was the most frequent malfunction. Edited to add: And I think much of it has to do with customer service. If you are a gear rental agency, you are serving the DZ community. You want to instill confidence in your customers and for them to trust your services. People have died in this sport where the initial cause of the problem was due to a main packing error. This is not to say a gear shop should be stuck with a damaged/loss of gear bill etc. but an occassional repack due to a packing error on DZ rented gear shouldn't be a huge deal.Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cerastes65 0 #64 September 16, 2012 Hello, I am a newly A licensed jumper and am renting gear to jump at this time. Do you know of any insurance companies that sell insurance for people renting skydiving equipment? Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #65 September 16, 2012 Quote Hello, I am a newly A licensed jumper and am renting gear to jump at this time. Do you know of any insurance companies that sell insurance for people renting skydiving equipment? Thanks Hi 65 You know this thread is 10 yr's old.Don't have a clue what the current policy is, YMMV depending on the DZ. You know how much a new main canopy costs? R. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
