FJC for coach rating

[schuylerrath 0]

hey y’all ! looking for any help on this one.. going down to FL for my coach rating mid Feb and need to assist with a FJC prior. i’m located in southern WI and willing to make a drive to get this completed. does anyone know of any DZs that is having a FJC in Jan or early Feb? any help would be appreciated

[jimjumper 25]

Been a long time since I did my AFF Rating course, much less looked at an IRM but, does the IRM say specifically it has to be a real FJC? Or can you just assist an AFFI teach a ground school to an experienced jumper playing a fake student? If so just hire both from your local DZ for the time needed. It's winter, they probably could use a couple extra bucks on a weather day anyway. For the course you'll essentially be doing the same thing anyway.

[dudeman17 270]

I'm not sure what the problem here is. An FJC is simply the first class that an entry-level AFF student takes. Any dropzone, including the one you jump at, probably does them every weekend if not most days. If you're at a dz that closes for the winter, I guess that might be the issue, but whichever is the closest one that is open should work. If nothing else, if you got to wherever you're taking the coach course a day or two early, they might be able to help you with that. I'm not really a fan of hiring an experienced jumper to 'play student'. I don't think the idea is just to get familiar with the FJC format, you'll have plenty of time to do that. I think it's also more a matter of getting used to working with actual students, and their questions, concerns, and hesitations.

[sfzombie13 307]

i disagree.  it is almost certainly just to get familiar with the course.  am i remembering right that a coach can't teach the aff or iad specific parts of the course, only the general part that applies to everyone?  and they don't test with students anyway, or at least mine didn't.  they told the "students" to mess with us to see what happened.  when it came my turn, the "student" was "blind"!  talk about throwing me a curveball.  we didn't have to assist with anything first, and i haven't seen any requirements in the irm for it, so i am basing my answer on that.  of course i never did finish the rating and haven't really paid much attention to it so i could be wrong.

[dudeman17 270]

I mean no disrespect whatsoever by the following...

 

14 hours ago, sfzombie13 said:

i disagree

And how long have you had an AFF rating? I've had one since '90. I'm not an IE, but that's because I have no interest whatsoever in that job. I have, however, mentored and advised many freshly minted instructors over the years, as they come out of the courses and into the real world.

I've read a lot of your posts over time. It is clear that you are truly interested and concerned, and that you mean well. But you often try to speak authoritatively on issues where you have no experience. I've seen you say, "It ought to be done THIS way!", on issues where, actually it IS done that way. I've seen you say, "It ought to be done THIS way!", on issues where it should NOT be done that way. I've thought about explaining the why's on a few of those, but what would be the point? More than once I've almost suggested to you that you should go to your dropzone, find some of the instructors that you respect, and shadow them as they do their job. I think you would find it interesting and informative.

I stand by what I said in the previous post, and I would regardless of what the latest USPA official might have scribbled in the latest version of the IRM or the SIM. Sure, assisting with an FJC helps you learn the format. But they'll be doing that as they go through the course, and as they get back to their dz's and work their way into real-world coaching and instructing. But there is more to it than that. There is a lot to be said for sport psychology in an environment such as this. Students - some are totally clueless and ill-prepared, while others have spent way too much time on youtube and think they are know-it-alls. There are differing levels of fear (and there should be), especially as jump time nears. Coach/Instructor candidates should learn how to deal with those issues. And an experienced jumper 'playing student' would be hard-pressed to accurately portray that, and for that to be accurately addressed. Ain't nuthin' like the real world. That's why I suggest that they should assist in a real FJC with real students, and the more the better.

I hope that helps.

[sfzombie13 307]

it helps explain why you disagree with me but does nothing for the actual part i disagreed with.  no, i am not an instructor nor am i a coach  and in fact have not jumped all year and am not even a uspa member presently.  does that mean i don't know what i am talking about?  maybe, but again, i doubt it.  the only things i speak authoritatively on are the things i know about, and if you'll notice, i pretty much just disagreed with you based on my personal experience (which i really did have just in case you're going to question that) and it really did happen just that way (in case you question that).  i also looked through the irm for the requirement for teaching a fjc before the actual course and could not find it but my irm is outdated and could be wrong.  you may want to brush up on your terminology, since "almost certain" is just that, almost but not quite, and the phrase "i could be wrong" means just that as well, it leaves room for my information to be incorrect especially since it's a few years old and things tend to change in the sport. 

 

you may find a few examples of my comments being a little different in the past, but you'll also notice that i have not made many in the past year or two, and the ones you'll find there have a slightly different tone, especially the ones from this year.  one thing you may not notice is that my past includes a good bit of teaching things to folks including being a driver trainer for new soldiers and many small group classes.  one thing we learned when i was taught small group instruction was that it is best to practice what you are going to teach before actually teaching it.  now that may have also changed since i left the army almost 20 years ago now, but i highly doubt it since most of the things taught by them were in my instruction for the leadership bachelor's degree where i learned the theory behind all of them. 

 

no, i don't have hardly any experience teaching jumpers anything but plfs and a few fjc courses i assisted with when i had half my coach rating, but i have decades of experience teaching folks how to do things from shoot pistols to driving wreckers.  teaching is teaching.  an instructor is not going to get much from helping teach a course before being formally trained in the outcome except familiarization.  if you think you're right and i am wrong, fine, it happens sometimes to me as i'm sure it does you.  but when you say that your experience means more here than mine, even if it does, you can still be wrong.  i take no disrespect from your comment, but that was a whole lot of words you put down to basically say "piss off".  enjoy the weekend.

Edited December 16, 2023 by sfzombie13
left a word out

[dudeman17 270]

Ok, I remember you better now. And why I stopped responding to you.

For the particular circumstance,

19 hours ago, sfzombie13 said:

i am not an instructor nor am i a coach  and in fact have not jumped all year and am not even a uspa member presently.  does that mean i don't know what i am talking about?

Yes, that's exactly what that means. Your profile says you have very few jumps, you say you failed to complete a coach course, don't currently jump, and are not a member of USPA. Yet you have an opinion on how USPA should train it's coaches and instructors. An opinion that supersedes that of someone with decades of experience as a USPA instructor. Okay.

There is one potential miscommunication here. You again mentioned your experience in the coach course, and how you did indeed have experienced jumpers playing student. That is a different scenario. When someone takes a coach or instructor course, when it comes time for the evaluation jumps, the actual skydives, no they don't jump with actual students. Neither do they jump with random experienced jumpers. They jump with designated evaluators, who are experienced I's and IE's chosen by the course director. Those evaluators present the candidates with in-air situations and, well, evaluate their responses.

That is not what the OP was writing about, nor what I was responding to. His situation was for the prerequisite that he assist in the ground training of an FJC before the course. No, he would not be jumping with the students, he's assisting with the ground training.

I reiterated my opinion on that. I explained why I have that opinion. I presented some of my experience on which I would base such an opinion. Yet, from all of that, your takeaway was...

20 hours ago, sfzombie13 said:

that was a whole lot of words you put down to basically say "piss off"

Okay. Have it your way. Piss off.

[sfzombie13 307]

that's a lot better and i can understand that.  i have no opinions on how or what the uspa should train, and did not ever try to even stretch anything to imply that.  sorry if you have a hard time understanding my words, sometimes i can be a bit unclear.  you took a whole of post history and condensed it down to one comment and applied it all to that comment.  none of it matters one bit to the comment though, so enjoy the weekend.  just know one thing:  it's ok to be wrong and it's also ok to let things go, as i am going to do now.  have a great day.