The debt limit, and deficits for the past 60 years

[wolfriverjoe 1,365]

17 hours ago, grimmie said:

The next time we are together in person I will explain that to you. The firehouse talk. Way too complicated to type out here. It’s multi level issues.

Just out of curiosity, is 'firehouse talk' similar to 'locker room talk'?

[wmw999 2,166]

18 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Just out of curiosity, is 'firehouse talk' similar to 'locker room talk'?

Or dropzone talk?

Wendy P.

[wolfriverjoe 1,365]

3 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Or dropzone talk?

Wendy P.

Maybe?

I think it's sort of the idea that in a 'safe space', people can speak in a way that would get them in a WHOLE LOT of trouble were they to say the same things in the same way in, say, a work setting.

That feeling of safety and security allows them to vent their hatred, racism, misogyny and a host of other VERY ugly things.

But...

The wide range of people, backgrounds, orientations (both sexual and political) that I have typically seen around the DZ bonfire after jumping keeps the real assholes from venting how they really feel.

The very few people who (often when pretty drunk) openly reveal their racism, sexism or other hatred often get shut down pretty quickly.

[grimmie 177]

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Just out of curiosity, is 'firehouse talk' similar to 'locker room talk'?

Not really. Locker room talk is usually sexual stuff. Firehouse talk is usually societal talk.

[wolfriverjoe 1,365]

3 minutes ago, grimmie said:

Not really. Locker room talk is usually sexual stuff. Firehouse talk is usually societal talk.

Is it the same in that it's specific thing said, or things said in a way that wouldn't be ok in 'polite society', stuff that the participants expect to be protected by the 'bro code'?

That becomes a very difficult thing.

In one respect, it's a private group of people, in a private conversation.

In another, it's a group of public employees, on duty, on publicly owned property. 

In theory (maybe?) those conversations could be legally recorded. And then played back at a city council meeting.
Or a promotion hearing. 
Or a disciplinary hearing.

When it became common for women to be firefighters/paramedics and spend their on-duty time in the firehouse, sexual harassment was a real problem.

The men 'acted like men', and the women weren't happy with it.

There was a lot of pushback, with some people saying 'if they don't want to be around men acting like that, then they shouldn't be in that sort of place.'

Fortunately, that sort of argument didn't work very well or for very long.

That sort of behavior isn't appropriate and shouldn't be tolerated.

[JerryBaumchen 1,072]

3 hours ago, grimmie said:

Not really. Locker room talk is usually sexual stuff. Firehouse talk is usually societal talk.

Hi Rich,

Firehouse talk was sexual until women began coming into the job.

BTDT,

Jerry Baumchen

[kallend 1,662]

Sure looks like the GOP is seeking the tax cheaters' vote.

[JerryBaumchen 1,072]

53 minutes ago, kallend said:

Sure looks like the GOP is seeking the tax cheaters' vote.

Hi John,

And, this is new?

Jerry Baumchen

[kallend 1,662]

Well, the House and Senate have passed their debt limit bills and sent on to Biden to sign.

The final outcome does indeed prove beyond any doubt that the Republicans are the party for tax cheaters (as if we didn't know already).

[jakee 1,271]

On 5/21/2023 at 7:54 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

Is it the same in that it's specific thing said, or things said in a way that wouldn't be ok in 'polite society', stuff that the participants expect to be protected by the 'bro code'?

That becomes a very difficult thing.

In one respect, it's a private group of people, in a private conversation.

In another, it's a group of public employees, on duty, on publicly owned property. 

That’s not difficult at all. It’s absolutely unacceptable. Not just because of the talk itself being a form of harassment but because it empowers the genuinely horrible people to go much further, as a recent damning review of the London Fire Brigade found. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-63749444
 

It was particularly interesting that there were multiple instances of firefighters’ safety gear being messed with because of misogyny and racism. Which illustrates the staggering naivety of certain posters here who think that racism is magically fixed through people of different backgrounds facing dangerous situations together. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,365]

5 minutes ago, jakee said:

That’s not difficult at all. It’s absolutely unacceptable. Not just because of the talk itself being a form of harassment but because it empowers the genuinely horrible people to go much further, as a recent damning review of the London Fire Brigade found. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-63749444
 

It was particularly interesting that there were multiple instances of firefighters’ safety gear being messed with because of misogyny and racism. Which illustrates the staggering naivety of certain posters here who think that racism is magically fixed through people of different backgrounds facing dangerous situations together. 

Right.

The 'difficult' was somewhat tongue in cheek.

This sort of 'firehouse talk' is not ok.

Ever.

Both for the reasons you stated, and also because it's virtually impossible to separate the 'firehouse talk' part from the actual practice of the people when on duty.

In the aftermath of the Michael Brown shooting in Missouri, the subsequent investigation into the police found a LOT of 'informal' racism. 
And a lot of institutional racism by the police towards the citizens.

Go figure.