Slider & skyties etc

[yurihammo 0]

Tried searching for this, did not find my answer (apologies if I missed it). Got a while before I get to a DZ and wanted to find out if anybody got the answers here! :)

Q: What size & type of canopies benefit from dragging the slider down and securing it behind your head with skyties (and from loosening your chest strap under canopy).

I have got a Sabre 2 190 and was just curious if doing the above steps would benefit its flight characteristics in any way. I've missed the opportunities to get coaching with B.Vacher, but really want to do one! :)

PS: I understand the reasoning behind these procedures with the slider, I just never figured out at what size do you see a benefit from doing them (I realise that smaller canopies benefit from this).

[gunneroy 0]

securing the slider with a skyties doesn't substantially improve handling over just putting the slider down, its more to aid with the nuisance factor of the slider creeping back up.
All canopies would benefit from bringing the slider down together with opening the chest strap as it allows the canopy to 'open up'.
The smaller and more aggressive the canopy (and the more aggressive the maneuver) the more this change will be noticeable.
Unless you load that Sabre 2 quite high it wont make a huge difference but as it allow you to have better visuals around you and will still have an affect, however small, there's no real reason not to as long as you open high enough and clear of traffic to have the time to mess around with it and are competent and safe enough under canopy to be able to incorporate it into your post opening procedure.
In any way talking to an experienced person on your home DZ like the CCI, who knows you and your flying, is never a bad idea.
Hope that helps :)

[yurihammo 0]

For sure you helped man! And yes the bottom line in skydiving "Always ask your instructors" is tattooed on the inside of my brain when getting advice

Thanks for your answer mate!

[Hellis 0]

Pulling down the slider and loosen up the cheststrap also makes toggle induced linetwists less likely.
If you pull one toggle quick and hard it can result in linetwists, but because the lines and wing expands as you loosen the chestrap and pull down the slider it makes it harder.

[Deimian 43]

I jump a Sabre 2 170 loaded at 1.15. Even for the (relatively) low wingload, I have noticed some small differences, particularly flaring. But maybe it is more my feeling than reality.

Besides this, I think it is a good idea to do that (pull down your slider and open the chest strap), just to have the habit and muscle memory for when you downsize (if you do it) and can benefit more from it. When done properly (clear of traffic with plenty of altitude, in this order: collapse slider, pull it down, secure it, release toggles, open chest strap) it doesn't do any harm.

[Zlew 0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk88sZS5B3s

[RiggerLee 61]

As to what sizes would benefit. In regards to toggle induced line twist. You would think that it would be the little ultra high performance hot rods that would be most prone to this but it's not. Your stability under the canopy is a product of the load on the canopy and the angle of the risers. As long as the canopy is loaded the risers are working to keep you stable underneath it. And the wider that angle the more stable you will be. If you unload the canopy, go weightless, then there is nothing keeping the risers from twisting above you. And you can substantially reduce the load on you parachute with toggle input. A lightly loaded high performance canopy has more potential for this then any thing else out there. A light to moderately loaded saber 2 190 would be the perfect example of this.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[Di0 1]

From nzaero website:

Quote

If you are using a class 3 or below (below 1.25 PSF), this gain will be minimal and possibly not worth the complication (as with a student canopy situation). For Class 4 (1.25-1.65 PSF), we recommend a collapsible slider - but the chest strap gain is minimal. For Class 5 and above (above 1.65 sf), it is a necessity to do both; both the performance and feel of the canopy will improve noticeably. To drop the slider you must have 25mm (1") risers and either soft links or the #3.5 SS links that we provide with the canopy.

http://www.nzaerosports.com/massive-information/canopy-set-up

I'd expect this numbers to be reasonable and applicable to most "normal" canopies out there.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[pchapman 262]

I'll also add that the LANDING characteristics can be improved by loosening the chest strap -- although in this case it doesn't require the slider to be brought down.

It lets you be more vertical when the canopy is flared behind you, so your weight is more above your feet. Makes it easier to land well instead of having to "reach out infront of you" with your feet.

I gave this tip to a girl and she loved it... even though she only loaded her canopy 0.8.

[Scrumpot 1]

If this has already been said, my apologies, as I've not thoroughly read through all the replies, but...

One other thought on this, just outside of raw "performance", should be your gear's physical set up. If you already do not have either slider bumpers, or some sort of other (like slink "hats") stops on your risers - that "stops" and holds your slider above the links - then it is my opinion that regardless of performance desires/results, you should always pull your slider down below/past the links.... OR have those stops/bumpers in place to retain it above. ...Either, or.

There have been documented incidents where gear set-up is such that the slider can be pulled below the links (i.e. no either bumpers or stops), but the pilot chooses to leave the slider above - which IMO is not using/having your gear configured correctly for your intended use, and again... could cause you "incident". (by the slider unintentionally passing the links, and "locking" a toggle).

If you don't intend to pull your slider down, then have hats/stops. If you don't have hats/stops - then do pull your slider down!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[yurihammo 0]

Thanks a lot for all your replies! I appreciate it!