Will the tunnel help or hurt?

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

I made sure they knew I was a student skydiver. Didn't seem to change much. Could be wrong but it seemed like they just blew that off. He kept calling it strafing. Side sliding left and right by dropping the elbow and knee to the side.

Which dropzone are you doing your training (assuming it's also in Northern California)? Depending on which one, there are skydiving instructors / coaches around who (if you arrange it in advance) could work with you in the tunnel so that what you do in the tunnel can complement what you're doing in your student program. Many of the tunnel instructors at iFly SFBay are not skydivers at all, or if they are skydivers, they are not skydiving instructors. Not a knock on them, but if you're looking to improve specific skills for skydiving, then it can be more helpful to work with a skydiving instructor who also has experience coaching in the tunnel.

All that said, as others have noted, for 9 jumps you're looking fine. And I agree with the recommendation to skip the flips in the tunnel.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[wildernessmedic 0]

Shoes it is.

Guess you're referring to my video intro. No those were pet rattlesnakes. Wasn't grabbing them, feeding time they struck the camera. The wild hawk however I was grabbing (not as cool I know...)

Thanks. Music was meant to be ironic.

He wouldn't need shoulder surgery if he backed off.

I understand why back flying comes before flips in a tunnel. But I'm not trying to be a tunnel flier. I'll definitely work more on my arch. There I was trying to practice for my final AFF such included the flips.

[Trafficdiver 8]

wildernessmedic

He wouldn't need shoulder surgery if he backed off.

I understand why back flying comes before flips in a tunnel. But I'm not trying to be a tunnel flier. I'll definitely work more on my arch. There I was trying to practice for my final AFF such included the flips.

First off. He would get fired if he backed off. It's their job to hold on to meat missiles like yourself. It's not your place, at less than 20 minutes in the tunnel to tell the instructor to back off. He's there so you won't get hurt. Want to fly without him, build your own tunnel.

Secondly. Flips are by far the easiest part of AFF,which you have finished so you should know. Turning and flying stable is more difficult to learn, and much more important to learn.

Don't be so quick to think you won't become a tunnel flyer. Lots of us went to the wind tube to learn to skydive and got addicted to it as well. It gets more fun the more things you can do and really helps with progression through the sport.

[wildernessmedic 0]

You know i'd almost agree with you had I not called before making a couple hundred mile drive and clearly asked weather I could do that without any contact, and was reassured I could. Which was my main gripe with them. I understand the liabilities now but I was reassured I could. The guy at the counter even looked me in the eyes and said yeah I just said that it wasn't true afterwards.

And I believe I have 20 minutes of tunnel time. It's just been spread out over many years and the last time I did AFF.

Meat missile? I'm 4 feet off the ground wearing a helmet over a spongy net lol.... I don't see how holding on to me like that could prevent any injuries. If anything it seems like it might cause more. But that's irrelevant, now I know and will be focus more on the arch and smooth turns.

[NWFlyer 2]

wildernessmedic

Meat missile? I'm 4 feet off the ground wearing a helmet over a spongy net lol.... I don't see how holding on to me like that could prevent any injuries. If anything it seems like it might cause more. But that's irrelevant, now I know and will be focus more on the arch and smooth turns.

You're also but a couple feet away from a tunnel wall. Tunnel injuries can and do occur, sometimes they're serious. Is it as dangerous as skydiving? No, a simple comparison of the injury/fatality rates of each will tell you that it's not. But I've seen even experienced flyers injure themselves in the tunnel (and I've got 50+ hours, a drop in the bucket compared to some, but enough to have seen that the tunnel isn't "perfectly safe" either), and I personally appreciate that they take their safety role seriously. Things can go from chill to dangerous fairly quickly in the tunnel, and they're doing their best to keep that from happening.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[wildernessmedic 0]

NWFlyer

Quote

I made sure they knew I was a student skydiver. Didn't seem to change much. Could be wrong but it seemed like they just blew that off. He kept calling it strafing. Side sliding left and right by dropping the elbow and knee to the side.

Which dropzone are you doing your training (assuming it's also in Northern California)? Depending on which one, there are skydiving instructors / coaches around who (if you arrange it in advance) could work with you in the tunnel so that what you do in the tunnel can complement what you're doing in your student program. Many of the tunnel instructors at iFly SFBay are not skydivers at all, or if they are skydivers, they are not skydiving instructors. Not a knock on them, but if you're looking to improve specific skills for skydiving, then it can be more helpful to work with a skydiving instructor who also has experience coaching in the tunnel.

All that said, as others have noted, for 9 jumps you're looking fine. And I agree with the recommendation to skip the flips in the tunnel.

Cloverdale. The free 15 minutes is supposed to be with iFlys lead instructor I believe. I was going to add on $100 while there since it's a long drive and they gave me the 15 free.

No it didn't seem like any where skydivers. It felt like my mention of that was ignored, possibly scoffed at, and on to tunnel flying we go...Could be in my head, I don't know, but it felt like a tourist trap rather than a place to train.

My AFF instructor sounded like he goes once in a while, but thought me going back might cause me to pick up more bad habits and suggested I wait.

[rehmwa 2]

NWFlyer

but if you're looking to improve specific skills for skydiving, then it can be more helpful to work with a skydiving instructor who also has experience coaching in the tunnel.

this ^^

We're hosting a 5 day camp starting tomorrow and have taught the mantis camp (based on the Airspeed curriculum) for 15 years or so.

If one wants to learn to tunnel fly, then tunnel coaches all the way.

If one wants to learn to skydive better, then a good coach that knows that helps IMMENSELY. The wrong coach won't help as much even if any time in the airflow helps.


I had a student go to the tunnel to get better at RW 4-way skills. He hired a tunnel coach. He went through the very basics of belly motions and then was immediately directed to start back flying, etc. It wasn't what he wanted. We found him the right coach afterwards.

(A tunnel coach that also skydives/competes can also coach with those in mind, directly for 4-way, VFW, or any of the skydiving disciplines, however, is worth his weight in gold. I know several.)

OP - pick your coach carefully and you'll have the most amazing learning and skills progressions

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Trafficdiver 8]

Meat missile is a common term on the east coast, some people call it zoomy as well. Not trying to insult you, just trying to explain what you looked like in the flips. Your belly and turns looked stable, the flips looked scary.

I don't think you will really hurt yourself, but every bruise avoided is a good thing.

I'm surprised the tunnel guaranteed you no contact. I've never heard of that unless you are a proflyer. I personally love the fact that the instructors step in and save my ass. Sometimes in head down I'm at near max power and can really fuck myself at those speeds. Of course now they just let me

Good luck.

[wildernessmedic 0]

Trafficdiver

Meat missile is a common term on the east coast, some people call it zoomy as well. Not trying to insult you, just trying to explain what you looked like in the flips. Your belly and turns looked stable, the flips looked scary.

I don't think you will really hurt yourself, but every bruise avoided is a good thing.

I'm surprised the tunnel guaranteed you no contact. I've never heard of that unless you are a proflyer. I personally love the fact that the instructors step in and save my ass. Sometimes in head down I'm at near max power and can really fuck myself at those speeds. Of course now they just let me

Good luck.

Didn't take it as an insult, just it a chuckle at the meat missile comment while picturing "Flying high" in a tunnel haha...

You think that flip was scary looking. You should see my AFF front half backflip thingy haha.

Yeah, I understand the liability and why they can't. He (hopefully) made a mistake. But that was the second time that happened, which is why I specifically asked can I do it with him out not grabbing me. The first time they said the instructor was just new.

Oh well, now I know and have that IBA tracker.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

riggerrob

To practice a relax arch -without wind - try laying face down in a hammock, or laying your back on a huge Swiss/boss ball. The challenge is to breath, relax and feel the stretch in your abdomen muscles.

Ooh! Dude! I am totally going to suggest this to a couple of people I know who are having a hard time relaxing! Thanks for the tip!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[wildernessmedic 0]

Doing 15 minutes of tunnel tomorrow. Really hope it helps. Kind of frustrated....

Jumped today. Of course it was still awesome, but idk why I had such a problem with my arch and stable heading still....

Arch didn't feel too bad besides being a bit head up... But I kept spinning. Felt pretty stable but constantly trying to stop spins. Tapped my toes, tried adjust. Just kept on having to initiate a turn in the opposite direction to stop.

Forever stuck on a stable belly earth position.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

wildernessmedic

Doing 15 minutes of tunnel tomorrow. Really hope it helps. Kind of frustrated....

Jumped today. Of course it was still awesome, but idk why I had such a problem with my arch and stable heading still....

Arch didn't feel too bad besides being a bit head up... But I kept spinning. Felt pretty stable but constantly trying to stop spins. Tapped my toes, tried adjust. Just kept on having to initiate a turn in the opposite direction to stop.

Forever stuck on a stable belly earth position.

That should help. Did your instructor say where your spin was coming from? They're usually pretty good at seeing the problem.

You have plenty of time to do stuff in the tunnel, so just breathe, try to relax and focus on small, smooth movements. See if you can feel the wind around you, swirling around your hips, shoulders and hands. Turn a hand to the left or right and feel the wind swirl around your palm or the back of your hand. See how that moves you in the tunnel. Small things can give you the results you want.

Toward the end of 15 minutes, you might not be able to do anything other than relax and go with the flow. The first 6 minutes I put in down there left me sore for three days. 'Course I was even more unfit then than I am now but it seems like anyone I take down there always ends up making a similar complaint. It works a lot of muscles people don't normally seem to use.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[wildernessmedic 0]

No instructors with me anymore. Already have about 20 minutes tunnel time although only 5 are recent. I don't get it. I can get a good stable arch then the next time I'm like a piece of plywood.

Check out 0:48. It's not great but I was decently stable with a good solid heading. Now... Gone. No consistency. Almost seem to work backwards....my final AFF was one of the least stable. 2 steps forward 3 steps back?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lIZxDQMnHI4

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Hmm. Might be your left leg. Check this out: https://youtu.be/lIZxDQMnHI4?t=151; you initiate your right turn with your right knee, but your left turn by dipping your hand. A couple places in that video, your left leg seems more stiff than your right one. Reckon you might be fighting that? I see the same thing a couple times in your first tunnel video. At 2:48, it kind of looks like you relaxed a little and started to get a decent arch going.

Compare with my body position at https://youtu.be/5wgEgpML500?t=116. I do three turns there with brief pauses, so you can kind of see what I'm doing from various angles. I also do a slow-fall de-arch at https://youtu.be/5wgEgpML500?t=214. That's fairly unstable, but it is slower falling. If you bend your knees a bit more and bring your arms in a bit to counter the back-slide that will result from that, I think it'd help bring your hips down. If you start to find yourself in an unexplained turn, ask yourself what your left leg is doing at that point and see if you can catch it in the act!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[Dutton 0]

You're just Mental. That's okay, a lot of students are. You know what to do, but you can't make your body do it.

There's no magic solution to that, you just have to figure it out for yourself. I had a buddy get stuck on Level 3 (Cat C) for nine jumps. No shit. He got motivated and figured it out when an Instructor told him to take up golf.

As long as you are enjoying yourself at the DZ and people like you, you'll get on fine. Good Luck!

[NWFlyer 2]

wildernessmedic

idk why I had such a problem with my arch and stable heading still....

Because this shit is hard. Because you've only been doing it for 11 jumps. That's roughly 11 minutes (freefall). Were you good at any new sport after 11 minutes?

Cut yourself a break, keep at it, keep learning.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[wildernessmedic 0]

Hey, it's 12 now hahaha... Thanks. It is nice not being easy... Funny how many people think falling requires no practice or skill...

Just got done. 15 minutes really helped. He cranked the power up this time where if I didn't arch as much as humanly possible I would I up. Really got a feel for the air this time. Great instructor. Side sliding, back, forward,up down, leg turns, and a little bit of transition from back to belly. Taught me how to fly and turn while in the deploy position.

Hope it stays with me more. And definitely see how the tunnel could cause a serious injury once the speeds up on the fan and turning fast. I'm basically just a jackass, and can't wait to go back again.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Nice, glad to hear the 15 minutes helped. For what it's worth, I think your flying at this point looks better than mine at the same point, and I have the video to prove it.

Staying current definitely helps, even though it's resource intensive. My landings went to shit in less than a month of bad weather between January and February. I had to do a bunch of hop and pops to fix them. What, can I say, skydive often!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[wildernessmedic 0]

What do you consider staying current? I know what usps says is "current", but as far as learning and skills perishing..? Just 2 weeks and it's gone??

[Trafficdiver 8]

wildernessmedic

Taught me how to fly and turn while in the deploy position.

Awesome! This definitely will make things smoother at pull time. Everyone who goes in the tunnel for sky diving should work on this. I still do all the time.

A lot of this is like riding a bike. Once you have it you have it. Staying current is more important with skydiving than the tunnel, for obvious reasons.

The more you go to the tunnel the more you progress in bodyflight. If you are stable flying on your belly you should be fine even if you take a year off.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

wildernessmedic

What do you consider staying current? I know what usps says is "current", but as far as learning and skills perishing..? Just 2 weeks and it's gone??

The more frequently the better. I notice I start getting a bit rusty if I've been away from it for more than a week. A month is as long as I've ever gone without skydiving since I started in the sport. Early on, I found that I'd do better on later jumps in the same day.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[wildernessmedic 0]

Here's one of the 5 sessions. Really happy with them and feel like there was a lot of improvement from last time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_QOEDC60Hc

Thanks for the advice, glad I went and did it now rather than later.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

wildernessmedic

Here's one of the 5 sessions. Really happy with them and feel like there was a lot of improvement from last time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_QOEDC60Hc

Thanks for the advice, glad I went and did it now rather than later.

Dude! Your arch is better and you're turning with both knees now! Way better! Based on how you're handling yourself, I'd guess you're feeling a bit more relaxed and confident with the air, too. Looks like you're over that particular hump. Congratulations!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[wildernessmedic 0]

Thanks man! Just did a jump and was super relaxed. Worked on tracking// diving E-W turning back and forth a few times and stood up my landing nearly right on target! Loving it! More enjoyable each time. Think I'm hooked.