0
normiss

USPA elections

Recommended Posts

lyosha



Those are some pretty lofty accusations. Could you attach some names to the ambiguous references?



I could, but I decline.

A-A couple of them are no longer on the board. One of them isn't a skydiver any longer because he lost everything when he was burned at the stake on the internet, and I find that reprehensible.

B-While there are a few people that believe that outing someone on a website like this is morally/ethically acceptable, I'm not one of them.
It's one thing to bring to light truths about our organization (and it's got flaws enough of its own), its another thing entirely to (often anonymously) attempt to destroy someone else's reputation over the internet. You're invited to attend a few BOD meetings and come to your own conclusions of who is and isn't contributing to the forward progress of our sport.

There are often two sides to every story, and not everyone chooses to tell their story here on Dz.com. And its not my job to force them here to defend themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A few of us have tried most every year at election time to open the discussion here.
Very few candidates ever contribute.

Where are we to discuss the various platforms?
How are we made aware of ANY discussion outside of the 3 paragraphs in their own magazine?

I'm continually confused as to why so many feel we should not discuss the candidates in any way.
If you don't want your worth as a contributor to a governing body to be considered, why even run?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jlmiracle

Jean-Paul

I am not saying they are all bad, because I know they are not. We just don't have enough good ones to make the changes that I would like to see happen.

Good luck in the elections.

Judy



Hi Judy,

and good day. 1. Thanks for the clarification. I did not interpret it as "all being bad," but i figure i be firm but fair and share some of my experiences. 2. Thanks for giving me credit for being nice :)

All in all, I believe open discussions like this are good and that members should write open messages to the USPA BoD here in dropzone.com for feedback and dialogues.

Thannks for the follow up, and Regards,

Jean-Paul Vega
USPA National Director Candidate
i keep minimum information on my profile. email is my communication preference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>Where are we to discuss the various platforms?

Right here. Seems like there are discussions going on.

>Very few candidates ever contribute.

It's up to them. Few do so any more, since they are regularly attacked on here.

>I'm continually confused as to why so many feel we should not discuss
>the candidates in any way.

?? Isn't this a thread about the candidates? I've seen several candidates discussed here, and you can do so if you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DSE

***

Those are some pretty lofty accusations. Could you attach some names to the ambiguous references?



I could, but I decline.

Oh FFS, Spot. Either share facts or don't. This "I'm going to throw out just enough gossip to show that I am more in the know than you" routine wasn't really that clever in junior high when the mean girls did it. :)
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
normiss

A few of us have tried most every year at election time to open the discussion here.
Very few candidates ever contribute.

Where are we to discuss the various platforms?
How are we made aware of ANY discussion outside of the 3 paragraphs in their own magazine?

I'm continually confused as to why so many feel we should not discuss the candidates in any way.
If you don't want your worth as a contributor to a governing body to be considered, why even run?



There is a difference, in my view, between "discussing candidates and their platforms" and people posting "don't vote for this guy because he did this, that, or the other thing." Or verbally reducing them to dust. Or turning something they didn't do into something they did do, because someone on the internet said so.

Every single member of the board has warts. Some of them more huge than others, but I've yet to meet a member of the BOD that doesn't have SOMETHING that nobody would like.
They're people. They make mistakes in both personal and professional lives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lyosha

***One candidate in this year's election, was shown to be flying in a beanbag chair ferrying to a demo.
Another, fabricated emails that were used to eviscerate another candidate in this year's elections. When the fabrication was discovered, it "didn't matter, because no one wants that guy elected anyway."
Yet another posted confidential material on Facebook, where an instructor was crucified long before a USPA Safety/Training committee conversation could take place.
We've seen BOD members stoned in committee meeting, we've seen BOD members drunk at meetings, we've seen BOD members participate in covering up competition cheats, we've seen BOD members give ratings for sexual favors. There is at least one sitting board member whose admitted they truly don't give a shit about skydiving, but they sure appreciate the free airfare to this or that place.



Those are some pretty lofty accusations. Could you attach some names to the ambiguous references?

Ha, and it is the same people over and over again. Ask around who is who, and people will give out names.

For sure there is at least one that works for USPA but hates USPA. (WTF?)
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NWFlyer

******

Those are some pretty lofty accusations. Could you attach some names to the ambiguous references?



I could, but I decline.

Oh FFS, Spot. Either share facts or don't. This "I'm going to throw out just enough gossip to show that I am more in the know than you" routine wasn't really that clever in junior high when the mean girls did it. :)
Oh for fuck's sake, you take issue with those five words?
Really? I shared the "facts." I just didn't share the names associated with the facts. Without a name, it's not gossip. If you truly give a shit, dial in. It's not my problem if you don't pay attention to minutes and outcomes.

As StayHigh suggested, who is who is fairly well known by those that skydive often enough, hang out at larger DZ's enough, or attend BOD meetings. There is no "I know something you don't know;" rather a sense of respect that I obviously failed to convey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DSE

... you take issue with those five words?
Really? I shared the "facts." ...



Yes, people should take issue with those words. Douglas, you have a history of "teasing" people with things that you say you know, but do not substantiate that knowledge.

Most of the "facts" you mentioned in post #48 have left me puzzled. If you will at least mention names, we can ask around and see if what you claim is actually facts.

You may very well know more than I do, seeing how you work in the industry, but you need to help us out here with a bit more information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stayhigh

... you gotta know that guy who works for USPA, who calls USPA, fag old boys club by now.



Actually I don't. Also, an important question is what do you mean by "works for USPA"? BOD member, or works for headquarters?

(Turn your private messages on!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am not responding directly to billvon's post, but it was the one that most fit what I have to say. I believe that the first thing that could be done by the BOD is to change the governance manual to require BOD votes sitting as committees and as sitting as a committee of the whole BOD to be recorded by name. I personally do read the BOD meeting minutes and the minutes of the committees' meetings. It would be helpful to the membership to know who voted which way on issues considered by the BOD. It provides transparency and enables the membership to judge the judgment of the BOD on the body of work they do for the organization by the way they vote on issues of import to the membership. If I am elected this would be one of my first efforts on behalf of the USPA membership.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, in 2013, there was a pretty robust discussion about a Wingsuit Instructor/Coach rating. It did not pass, and the vote was not recorded by name. With the popularity of Wingsuiting, I thought the discussion was a good one to have, regardless of how you feel about adding another instructional rating to the mix. And, I think it would have benefitted the USPA membership to know which BOD members voted each way.

I do agree that there are a number of issues that relate to individuals that come up before the BOD. Again, whether the issues pass or fail, it would be good for the membership to see who supports the differing views to be able to evaluate the individual BOD members performance when vote time comes around.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
again, coming up with new rules they can't enforce and won't enforce equally to everyone.

WSI rating was another dumbass rule they were thinking of.... what's next??? follow BPA and have rules on how many jumps you need to have to wear a full face helmet?

I love how Lodi operates. You give money to Bill and you get on his airplane, you follow his rules on his kingdom and you stay on the dz. Yes, there are more rules in his kingdom than anywhere else, but it is his airplane, his rule.

USPA on the other hand, who the fuck are they? why are they even enforcing some bullshit rule? and how come some of the higher ups aren't even subjected to the same bullshit rule?
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peek



Most of the "facts" you mentioned in post #48 have left me puzzled.



Why doesn't that surprise me?:)
Wait...I've watched you sleep (multiple times) in BOD meetings. One time, a few of us in the front row chuckled when you snored.

You're sitting in the meetings; if you've really not noticed a couple of these things, then your region might suspect an issue of attentiveness. What else might have you missed?
You were sitting next to the BOD member (no longer sitting) whom I assisted in walking out of the room to vomit (Scottsdale) and commented as I helped walk around the hotel.
You were present in Reno and San Diego when other 'moments' occurred. How could you possibly not have been aware?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, if you keep voting for the same people over and over, you get what you vote for -- as a membership. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You change the culture on the BOD by infusing new blood.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stayhigh

Is there an immense benefit for the dz to be a member of USPA?

Insurance? Loan?

Why can't all dzs go the Lodi way?



Are you an Anarchist? Who would represent American skydiving to the FAI? Who would issue credentials? Who would train instructors?

And most importantly, who would there be left to complain about?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gowlerk

***Is there an immense benefit for the dz to be a member of USPA?

Insurance? Loan?

Why can't all dzs go the Lodi way?



Are you an Anarchist? Who would represent American skydiving to the FAI? Who would issue credentials? Who would train instructors?

And most importantly, who would there be left to complain about?

Who would represent skydivers to the FAA? Who would work diligently to protect small airport operations on public airfields? Who would keep the NAA in line? Who would lobby for us in DC?

I once had an opinion that the USPA wasnt' all that. And then I became involved, informed, and of a different opinion. Having had the experience of working with a couple of NACs over the past couple of years....USPA may not be perfect, but it's much more close to perfect than many believe.
Bear in mind too, there is a significant difference between the BOD and the admin of USPA. The Admin people are all professionals, working to do the bidding of the BOD, who are obligated to represent the membership who elected them. Generally, the board does what the membership asks for. Occasionally, they don't.

Charlie is right; new blood will enrich the board. Some board members haven't jumped in years, and only serve their own DZ's. Other BOD members jump their tails off.

FWIW, it was super to see two candidates for the BOD make the trek to USPA Wingsuit Nationals, and shake hands with the competitors, meeting them in person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DSE

Wait...I've watched you sleep (multiple times) in BOD meetings. One time, a few of us in the front row chuckled when you snored.



Well, the next time I guess you had better get video, because I certainly do not remember doing that. Or perhaps you can tell me who "a few of us" is. (I just checked with 2 BOD members who have been present at all of the plenary sessions for quite a few years now and they do not remember anything like that. Was it a committee meeting? Which one?) Perhaps you are confusing me with another BOD member?

Quote

You were sitting next to the BOD member (no longer sitting) whom I assisted in walking out of the room to vomit (Scottsdale) and commented as I helped walk around the hotel.
You were present in Reno and San Diego when other 'moments' occurred. How could you possibly not have been aware?



Until you remind me of the details of those incidents I cannot comment on them. What is it that I am supposed to "be aware" of? I don't go around looking for trouble, or looking for negative things to remember about BOD meetings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DSE

******Is there an immense benefit for the dz to be a member of USPA?

Insurance? Loan?

Why can't all dzs go the Lodi way?



Are you an Anarchist? Who would represent American skydiving to the FAI? Who would issue credentials? Who would train instructors?

And most importantly, who would there be left to complain about?

Who would represent skydivers to the FAA? Who would work diligently to protect small airport operations on public airfields? Who would keep the NAA in line? Who would lobby for us in DC?

I once had an opinion that the USPA wasnt' all that. And then I became involved, informed, and of a different opinion. Having had the experience of working with a couple of NACs over the past couple of years....USPA may not be perfect, but it's much more close to perfect than many believe.
Bear in mind too, there is a significant difference between the BOD and the admin of USPA. The Admin people are all professionals, working to do the bidding of the BOD, who are obligated to represent the membership who elected them. Generally, the board does what the membership asks for. Occasionally, they don't.

Charlie is right; new blood will enrich the board. Some board members haven't jumped in years, and only serve their own DZ's. Other BOD members jump their tails off.

FWIW, it was super to see two candidates for the BOD make the trek to USPA Wingsuit Nationals, and shake hands with the competitors, meeting them in person.

is this when we start to blame Obama for everything?
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peek

***FWIW, it was super to see two candidates for the BOD make the trek to USPA Wingsuit Nationals, and shake hands with the competitors, meeting them in person.



You're welcome!

Forgive me, I was referring to other candidates.

It was an appreciated surprise to see you there, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spot, I read your response and while most of the claims seem pretty bad, I do question one. We have talked about it and I questioned it since then. Now that you have brought up the ferrying to a demo in a bean bag chair I have to question it. It seems pretty much a non event in the letter of the law unless you can supply more information. Was the person in that chair for taxi, takeoff, or landing? If not it is a definite non problem. If he is in an approved seat or berth for taxi takeoff or landing he can be wherever he would like for the rest of the flight.

Hell if they have taken off and he wants to go stand on his head at the back bulkhead until time to go sit down for landing its fine if the pilot is ok with it.

Also stating all the wrongs of the various board members is an example of the above the rules attitude of USPA. The same as the VP of USPA using a non rated instructor to do AFF. The lack of attention to safety starts at the top. The members of the organization should put in place people who will hold themselves beyond reproach and lead by example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0