Off landing, Slid In, What Happened?

[DougH 270]

Xitesmai

I wasnt sitting in half brakes on my final leg...I was making small adjustments as to not land on a runway...I went into the Stage 1 (half brakes) about 3-4 seconds before going to full flare...But once in full flare I didnt feel any lift or change in speed...hence my question.

Basically you didn't do a braked approach. For a braked approach you fly the pattern with some amount of toggle input. It can be 1/4, 1/2, or deeper. The deeper the application the slower the airspeed. This changes the sweet spot of the canopy in the toggle stroke, the initiation height, the speed of the toggle stroke, and amount of input needed. All else being equal less airspeed equals less lift, and less flare.

Flying a brake approach gives you more time to evaluate your landing area for obstacles, and it slows your decent. There are a number of other considerations like how it impacts your glide slope which depends on canopy type and wind conditions.

You need to know what to expect when flying a braked approach, this is a good talk for your instructors.

It sounds instead like you did a staged flare and without being able to have seen the landing or see a recording of it we are all just playing Miss Cleo. My guess is that by apply half brakes you unintentionally started the move towards the sweet spot at way too high of a initiation altitude which often requires additional input to landing and a strong finish, and when the canopy didn't get that input it started the recovery phase of the flight cycle, got out in front of you, and picked up speed.

Why did you try to land this way? Were you trying to apply something your instructor told you about off landings.

A two stage flare is a totally different beast, and I think you would be suited best by learning it from someone in person!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[hillson 0]

kuai43

***

Am I reading this all wrong.....is Doug Davis really argueing canopy control with Hillson??

I think we're seeing the real 'sock-puppetry'.

Nah...he's ok. Chatted off DZ...once the dick measuring was over it was productive (I think, at least).

I'm not the world's greatest skydiver or some ace canopy pilot...just your typical weekend beer-leaguer that sometimes earned "experience" not by watching and listening but by doing (because I wasn't watching and listening...)...quickly learned the relationship between the skill bucket and the luck bucket...and that even a D license is merely a license to learn.

[xsniper 1]

hillson

******

Am I reading this all wrong.....is Doug Davis really argueing canopy control with Hillson??

I think we're seeing the real 'sock-puppetry'.

Nah...he's ok. Chatted off DZ...once the dick measuring was over it was productive (I think, at least).

I'm not the world's greatest skydiver or some ace canopy pilot...just your typical weekend beer-leaguer that sometimes earned "experience" not by watching and listening but by doing (because I wasn't watching and listening...)...quickly learned the relationship between the skill bucket and the luck bucket...and that even a D license is merely a license to learn.

Very cool. Hope we can catch up at the Hills sometime. I apologize for heading this thread out of line to the OP's intent.

[dhbiker517 0]

Doug_Davis

***

If landing out, yes, his instructor probably taught him this. When landing out in an unfamiliar area, with unknown obstacles and grass height, it's widely known and accepted to fly a braked approach.

On final? Never had an instructor tell me to do that. Also given that you have no info on your profile and this is your first post in 4 years of having this account.....whose sockpuppet profile is this really?

Xitesmai

Thanks for all the help everyone..allow me to respond to a few things:


***Why were you at half brakes prior to flaring?
Think. Did any instructor tell you to do that, or did you make that one up on your own?
Now think about how being at half breaks affected your ability to flare effectively.

I guess I should have been more precise and called it a "two-staged" flare. Yes they did teach this to bleed off some of the vertical speed prior to landing. I can see how bleeding off the speed can negate some of the vertical lift from flaring.

A two-stage flare is not sitting in half-brakes on your final leg of your landing pattern. Its making a decisive movement generally done at system height off the ground to nearly arrest vertical descent so that you are now traveling horizontally across the ground, and then finishing the flare.
And as you correctly guessed, yes thats why you didnt get any real flare on landing.
You need to talk to your instructors about reviewing exactly what a two-stage flare is and how its performed.

Wow, you've got some issues buddy.

No sock puppetry here. Does a profile have to be fully filled out in order for you to admit you're wrong?

Do some research before throwing stones and telling people what they are doing is wrong.

[Doug_Davis 0]

dhbiker517

Wow, you've got some issues buddy.

No sock puppetry here. Does a profile have to be fully filled out in order for you to admit you're wrong?

Do some research before throwing stones and telling people what they are doing is wrong.

Im not wrong. From what he admitted as we continued to talk, and DougH also suggested, he probably just screwed up his two stage flare. But since we dont have video we cant know for sure, which is why and everyone else said "talk to your instructors". Its not rocket science.

[rwieder 0]

Quote

Why didn't I feel the lift when I flared? Did I flare too late potentially? Was it because of the wind direction?

Your jump number tell it all.

[wasatchrider 0]

rwieder

Quote

Why didn't I feel the lift when I flared? Did I flare too late potentially? Was it because of the wind direction?

Your jump number tell it all.

thanks alot captain obvious but he is trying to learn

BASE 1519