So, my thread has been blocked...

[wmw999 2,334]

I think, then, that you should start talking to people as you wish, calling them whatever ethnic characterizations you personally think are appropriate. Be the change you wish to see



Of course, you might have to spend some time setting up the world so that everyone else sees things the way you do. And don't forget, you need to also make sure that all of the subtle advantages of being white and appearing middle class also no longer exist.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Bolas 5]

billvon

>Not the point. Asshole is not a homophobic, racial, sexist, nor ethnic slur.

So you are OK with that double standard.

Here's another one. On a certain 8 way team I was once doing video for, two female members used to call each other "bitch" all the time - surely a sexist slur. They thought it was funny. But if you call the woman at the DMV a bitch, she'd get mad! Another double standard.

How is asshole a double standard? What DNA group is specifically targetted by it?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

Why is the ability to call these people niggers so important to you?

The entire point of this thread has been how to refer to that small fraction of the 13% of blacks who are responsible for 50% of the crime in America.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

I think the day that word loses it's power would be a good day for black people. . .

+1

We are all engines of karma

[Bolas 5]

wmw999

I think, then, that you should start talking to people as you wish, calling them whatever ethnic characterizations you personally think are appropriate. Be the change you wish to see



Of course, you might have to spend some time setting up the world so that everyone else sees things the way you do. And don't forget, you need to also make sure that all of the subtle advantages of being white and appearing middle class also no longer exist.

Wendy P.

What are the sexist slurs for men?
What are the racist slurs for white people?
What are the slurs for heterosexuals?

How often do you hear people use the above slurs (for lack of better words) when referring to their own kind?

The only example I can think of is redneck but very few take offense to that regardless of who says it.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

I'm just waiting for the double standard to die. Either let everyone say it or no one say it, preferably the latter.

High hopes, indeed. As billvon has clearly defined it, use of "that-word-white-people-cannot-use" is hate speech by his definition. As we've yet to come up with another way to describe that small fraction of the 13% of blacks who are responsible for 50% of the crime in America, it kind of limits the conversation.

We are all engines of karma

[billvon 2,772]

>How is asshole a double standard?

Because sometimes you can use it and sometimes you can't. Similar to "bitch" "nigger" etc.

>What DNA group is specifically targetted by it?

Not sure why that should matter - but that's why I gave you the second example. Do you understand that sometimes you can use the word "bitch" and sometimes you can't, even though women are specifically targeted by it?

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

let's just ignore it - it's easier that way.

Did you look over the DOJ's consent order with the Baltimore police? This stuff is going warp speed in the wrong direction.

We are all engines of karma

[billvon 2,772]

>As billvon has clearly defined it, use of "that-word-white-people-cannot-use" is hate
>speech by his definition.

Nope, I never claimed that.

[quade 4]

StreetScooby

As billvon has clearly defined it, use of "that-word-white-people-cannot-use" is hate speech by his definition. As we've yet to come up with another way to describe that small fraction of the 13% of blacks who are responsible for 50% of the crime in America, it kind of limits the conversation.

So what?

Seriously.

How does it affect your life in any way, shape, or form that you shouldn't call somebody a specific racial slur?

What joy in life is it depriving you of?

Forget the legalities. I mean the realities of life. How the hell does it really affect your life?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

Nope, I never claimed that.

Quote

...I'll make it easy for you and just tell you that you can't use any racial slurs, period.

Ah, I'm tired of your word games, billvon. Trying to have this conversation is hate speech, as you've clearly defined it.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

How does it affect your life in any way, shape, or form that you shouldn't call somebody a specific racial slur?

What joy in life is it depriving you of?

I want to have a conversation with local Cottage-officers, congressmen, and others in a productive way regarding what do we do about that small fraction of the 13% of blacks who are responsible for 50% of the crime in America. I can't call them "that-word-white-people-cannot-use" and hope to get anywhere with that conversation.

Especially considering the Obama administration has legitimized their complaints, and now their sympathizers are hunting cops.

America needs to have this conversation, badly.

We are all engines of karma

[Bolas 5]

billvon

>How is asshole a double standard?

Because sometimes you can use it and sometimes you can't. Similar to "bitch" "nigger" etc.

>What DNA group is specifically targetted by it?

Not sure why that should matter - but that's why I gave you the second example. Do you understand that sometimes you can use the word "bitch" and sometimes you can't, even though women are specifically targeted by it?

I think you're missing the point. It's not a matter of sometimes you can use it and other times you can't, it's the fact it's not a slur.

Example: If somebody cut somebody else off in traffic and they yell asshole at them it's far less inflamatory then yelling a slur.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 2,772]

>Ah, I'm tired of your word games, billvon.

"Word games?"

It's very simple.

YOU (not everyone, you) have demonstrated that you can't tell when words like "nigger" are used as racial slurs vs. when they are used to discuss specific societal issues. From the rules:

=======
Posts that contain material that we deem to be blatantly or unnecessarily racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted, pornographic, or otherwise offensive, may be removed. While discussion of certain social and political issues may require the use of sensitive or potentially offensive terms, outside of those limited contexts the use of such terms is not allowed on this board and may be removed.
========

There is no ban against using specific words. There is only a ban against YOU using "nigger" because you can't tell those two things apart.

If you don't like the rules of this board, if you think they are "word games" or whatever, then have the courage of your convictions and stop posting here. Or, if you can live with the rules, then continue posting here and stop whining. Your choice.

[Bolas 5]

quade

***As billvon has clearly defined it, use of "that-word-white-people-cannot-use" is hate speech by his definition. As we've yet to come up with another way to describe that small fraction of the 13% of blacks who are responsible for 50% of the crime in America, it kind of limits the conversation.

So what?

Seriously.

How does it affect your life in any way, shape, or form that you shouldn't call somebody a specific racial slur?

What joy in life is it depriving you of?

Forget the legalities. I mean the realities of life. How the hell does it really affect your life?

Slurs either should be redefined and used by everybody or by nobody.

Bitch could be redefined to behavior instead of gender.

The n word could be redefined to poor, criminal, uneducated, broken home regardless of race.

If we ever truly want equality, all need to be treated equally.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[quade 4]

StreetScooby

Quote

How does it affect your life in any way, shape, or form that you shouldn't call somebody a specific racial slur?

What joy in life is it depriving you of?

I want to have a conversation with local Cottage-officers, congressmen, and others in a productive way regarding what do we do about that small fraction of the 13% of blacks who are responsible for 50% of the crime in America. I can't call them "that-word-white-people-cannot-use" and hope to get anywhere with that conversation.

Especially considering the Obama administration has legitimized their complaints, and now their sympathizers are hunting cops.

America needs to have this conversation, badly.

You just proved you can accurately describe the situation without using the word. I think you just proved you don't need to use it; you only want to use it.

There is a difference between wants and needs.

Why do you feel you need to use it when the fact is you only want to use it?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

YOU (not everyone, you) have demonstrated that you can't tell when words like "nigger" are used as racial slurs vs. when they are used to discuss specific societal issues

So, YOU are labeling me as a hate monger. You could not be more wrong.

Quote

...we deem to be blatantly...

So, your lens is in play here, and YOU are labeling me as a hate monger. You have a warped lens.

Quote

There is only a ban against YOU using "nigger" because you can't tell those two things apart.

Your warped lens has driven you down this hole where the best you can do is label me as a hate monger. The entire point of this thread has been how can white people refer to that small fraction (males, acceding to your clearly stated sensitivities) of 13% of the population who are responsible for 50% of the crime in America.

I have no problem not using that "that-word-white-people-cannot-use".

Quote

If you don't like the rules of this board, if you think they are "word games" or whatever, then have the courage of your convictions and stop posting here. Or, if you can live with the rules, then continue posting here and stop whining. Your choice.

Nothing productive coming out of this.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

You just proved you can accurately describe the situation without using the word. I think you just proved you don't need to use it; you only want to use it.

No, for the last time, I don't want to use it. What I want is a simple, concise word that describes the situation. Using long phrases with people tends to lose them quickly.

We are all engines of karma

[billvon 2,772]

>Example: If somebody cut somebody else off in traffic and they yell asshole at
>them it's far less inflamatory then yelling a slur.

Right. And if you say "fuck your mother!" that's far MORE inflammatory, even though it's not a racial slur, or directed towards _their_ sex. In fact, people might take more offense at such an insult than if you just yelled "bitch!" although that's a sexist slur.

But the issue isn't which curse word is most inflammatory. The thing you have an issue with (at least that you have claimed here) is that there is a double standard - sometimes you can say things and sometimes you can't. "I'm just waiting for the double standard to die. Either let everyone say it or no one say it, preferably the latter."

As Wendy pointed out, that is a characteristic of insults, not a characteristic or racist (or homophobic, or sexist) insults. Everyone cannot say "asshole" and get away with it. Everyone cannot say "nigger" and get away with it. Everyone cannot say "bitch" and get away with it. It is the relationship between the audience and the speaker, not the word, that determines whether it is OK or not.

[quade 4]

StreetScooby

No, for the last time, I don't want to use it. What I want is a simple, concise word that describes the situation. Using long phrases with people tends to lose them quickly.

And you don't think using racially charged words do?

By using the word, you immediately lose any sympathy from the people you're attempting to address. From a sales point of view, that's a horrible way to go about business.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

By using the word, you immediately lose any sympathy from the people you're attempting to address. From a sales point of view, that's a horrible way to go about business.

This thread has clearly demonstrated to me that white people can't have a conversation regarding that small fraction of the 13% of blacks who are responsible for 50% of the crime in America.

Even worse, the Obama administration has legitimized this small fraction of 13% of the blacks who are responsible for 50% of the crime in America, such that their sympathizers are now hunting cops.

This is going the wrong direction.

We really need to be able to have a conversation about the behavior of the small fraction of 13% of the blacks who are responsible for 50% of the crime in America.

Their problems are not due to white people, or cops, or people who use offensive language.

Liberals, and I hold billvon as a prime example here, refuse to allow that conversation to take place. This entire thread has been an opportunity to actually help define that conversation. All that seems to have happened here is billvon has labeled me as a hate monger. That's the best we can do here? I'm the bad guy? For wanting to have a conversation?

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

A good article from IBD:

Walter E. Williams: The Decline Of Civility In America

Walter E. Williams: The Decline Of Civility In America

WALTER E. WILLIAMS
8/10/2016

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One of the unavoidable consequences of youth is the tendency to think behavior we see today has always been. I'd like to dispute that vision, at least as it pertains to black people.

I graduated from Philadelphia's Benjamin Franklin High School in 1954. Franklin's predominantly black students were from the poorest North Philadelphia neighborhoods. During those days, there were no policemen patrolling the hallways.

Today close to 400 police patrol Philadelphia schools. There were occasional after-school fights -- rumbles, as we called them -- but within the school, there was order. In contrast with today, students didn't use foul language to teachers, much less assault them.

Places such as the Richard Allen housing project, where I lived, became some of the most dangerous and dysfunctional places in Philadelphia. Mayhem -- in the form of murders, shootings and assaults -- became routine.

By the 1980s, residents found that they had to have window bars and multiple locks. The 1940s and '50s Richard Allen project, as well as other projects, bore no relation to what they became. Many people never locked their doors; windows weren't barred. We did not go to bed with the sound of gunshots. Most of the residents were two-parent families with one or both parents working.
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How might one explain the greater civility of Philadelphia and other big-city, predominantly black neighborhoods and schools during earlier periods compared with today?

Would anyone argue that during the '40s and '50s, there was less racial discrimination and poverty? Was academic performance higher because there were greater opportunities? Was civility in school greater in earlier periods because black students had more black role models in the form of black principals, teachers and guidance counselors?

That's nonsense, at least in northern schools. In my case, I had no more than three black teachers throughout primary and secondary school.

Starting in the 1960s, the values that made for civility came under attack. Corporal punishment was banned. This was the time when the education establishment and liberals launched their agenda that undermined lessons children learned from their parents and the church.

Sex education classes undermined family/church strictures against premarital sex. Lessons of abstinence were ridiculed, considered passe, and replaced with lessons about condoms, birth control pills and abortion.

Further undermining of parental authority came with legal and extralegal measures to assist teenage abortions, often with neither parental knowledge nor parental consent.

Customs, traditions, moral values and rules of etiquette are behavioral norms, transmitted mostly by example, word of mouth and religious teachings. As such, they represent a body of wisdom distilled through the ages by experience and trial and error.

The nation's liberals -- along with the education establishment, pseudo-intellectuals and the courts -- have waged war on traditions, customs and moral values. Many people have been counseled to believe that there are no moral absolutes. Instead, what's moral or immoral is a matter of personal convenience, personal opinion, what feels good or what is or is not criminal.

We no longer condemn or shame self-destructive and rude behavior, such as out-of-wedlock pregnancies, dependency, cheating and lying. We have replaced what worked with what sounds good. The abandonment of traditional values has negatively affected the nation as a whole, but blacks have borne the greater burden. This is seen by the decline in the percentage of black two-parent families.

Today a little over 30% of black children live in an intact family, where as early as the late 1800s, over 70% did. Black illegitimacy in 1938 was 11%, and that for whites was 3%. Today it's respectively 73% and 30%.

It is the height of dishonesty, as far as blacks are concerned, to blame our problems on slavery, how white people behave and racial discrimination. If those lies are not exposed, we will continue to look for external solutions when true solutions are internal. Those of us who are old enough to know better need to expose these lies.

Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University.

We are all engines of karma

[Bolas 5]

billvon

>Example: If somebody cut somebody else off in traffic and they yell asshole at
>them it's far less inflamatory then yelling a slur.

Right. And if you say "fuck your mother!" that's far MORE inflammatory, even though it's not a racial slur, or directed towards _their_ sex. In fact, people might take more offense at such an insult than if you just yelled "bitch!" although that's a sexist slur.

But the issue isn't which curse word is most inflammatory. The thing you have an issue with (at least that you have claimed here) is that there is a double standard - sometimes you can say things and sometimes you can't. "I'm just waiting for the double standard to die. Either let everyone say it or no one say it, preferably the latter."

As Wendy pointed out, that is a characteristic of insults, not a characteristic or racist (or homophobic, or sexist) insults. Everyone cannot say "asshole" and get away with it. Everyone cannot say "nigger" and get away with it. Everyone cannot say "bitch" and get away with it. It is the relationship between the audience and the speaker, not the word, that determines whether it is OK or not.

I'm not concerned with situational double standards. I'm concerned with double standards based solely on the speakers DNA.

If the derogatory term for blue people was bloops, shouldn't blue people not want anyone to use it, blue people included? Why should it only be considered offensive if a non blue person says it? In addition to it being a double standard, they're the ones keeping the offensive word alive.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[wmw999 2,334]

Who are you going to have that conversation with? And why focus only on black criminals, when you could focus on criminals at large? If it's because you want someone else to fix their problems, then figure out which of yours need fixing, too, so it's not just another demand from a white guy who assumes that because he's white, his voice deserves to be listened to.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,334]

Because it's one of the few things that white males, (or whites in general), with their generally greater power, don't get to decide. Live with it. It's one of the few things that white guys aren't in charge of in the US.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)