Measles Outbreak

[ryoder 1,401]

Requirements to visit US:

There are no vaccination requirements for visitors to the United States.

Source: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/united-states


Requirements to immigrate to US:

Under the immigration laws of the United States, a foreign national who applies for an immigrant visa abroad, or who seeks to adjust status to a permanent resident while in the United States, is required to receive vaccinations to prevent the following diseases:

Mumps
Measles
Rubella
Polio
Tetanus and Diphtheria Toxoids
Pertussis
Haemophilus influenzae type B
Hepatitis B
Any other vaccine-preventable diseases recommended by the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices

Source: http://www.uscis.gov/news/questions-and-answers/vaccination-requirements

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jakee 1,262]

Quote

I am blaming the outbreak on moronic immigration policy

Why?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[muff528 3]

billvon

> I am blaming the outbreak on moronic (with regard to public health, among other
>things) immigration policy and using the unchecked mass influx of undocumented
>migrants as an example of that idiotic policy.

Do you have even the slightest shred of evidence that this measles outbreak was caused by illegal immigrants? Even a tiny _hint_ of evidence? Or is it complete BS?

No, I did not say they were the cause. I did suggest that "illegal immigrants" are a subset of possible sources ...and they are. Do you have definitive evidence that they are not? How about from legal immigrants? Why are you intentionally suggesting that I've excluded that possibility. I haven't excluded visitors, tourists or returning travelers, either. Nor have I excluded Europeans, Tasmanians, Brazilians, Kardashians, or Uighurs or the Halicheki Bird People as possible vectors.

Quote

>While I believe that vaccination should be universal, I think it is disingenuous and
>self-serving to blame the folks who actually contract these mostly-eradicated diseases
>in their own countries for their own infections rather than blame piss-poor, irresponsible
>immigration policy.

So rather than blame the people who could stop the disease in its tracks (but just don't want to) you blame something that, as far as anyone can tell, has nothing to do with the issue. Well, I blame creationism. So there.

Well, the disease can't be stopped in its tracks through vaccination alone. As has been pointed out, there are "huge numbers" of folks who are not able to get vaccinated and who remain vulnerable to infection, even if vaccinations are mandated. As I said, folks should get vaccinated. They should also have a reasonable expectation of controlling, to the extent that we can, the spread of infectious disease across borders. Especially one that had been previously eradicated.

Quote

> Even now, we don't know (or won't reveal) from what region of the globe the US
>outbreaks originated ...

We do know. Anaheim, California.

OK, let me re-frame. Even now, we don't know (or won't reveal) from what region of the globe the measles virus that caused the US outbreaks recently came. But, maybe you are right. Maybe the measles bugs have been lying in wait, a pimple on Mr. Toad's azz for years, waiting for some poor, irresponsible, unvaccinated kid to climb aboard.

[muff528 3]

ryoder

Requirements to visit US:

There are no vaccination requirements for visitors to the United States.

Source: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/united-states


Requirements to immigrate to US:

Under the immigration laws of the United States, a foreign national who applies for an immigrant visa abroad, or who seeks to adjust status to a permanent resident while in the United States, is required to receive vaccinations to prevent the following diseases:

Mumps
Measles
Rubella
Polio
Tetanus and Diphtheria Toxoids
Pertussis
Haemophilus influenzae type B
Hepatitis B
Any other vaccine-preventable diseases recommended by the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices

Source: http://www.uscis.gov/news/questions-and-answers/vaccination-requirements

Thanks! ...at least there are some rules that have been estasblished and (/cough) are being followed.

[billvon 2,435]

> I did suggest that "illegal immigrants" are a subset of possible sources

Yes. So are anti-vaxxers. And based on the increase in measles in the US over the past four years, anti-vaxxers are a much more likely source of infection. Imagining that they are due to illegal immigrants is paranoid right-wing nonsense; unfortunately all too common. Look at the Ebola scare.

>Well, the disease can't be stopped in its tracks through vaccination alone.

Completely incorrect.

> As has been
>pointed out, there are "huge numbers" of folks who are not able to get vaccinated and
>who remain vulnerable to infection, even if vaccinations are mandated.

That is true for all vaccines. Nevertheless, vaccines HAVE wiped out some diseases (like smallpox) completely. This happens due to "herd immunity" - if enough of a population is immune through vaccination, the disease cannot spread, and dies out.

>OK, let me re-frame. Even now, we don't know (or won't reveal) from what region of
>the globe the measles virus that caused the US outbreaks recently came. But, maybe
>you are right. Maybe the measles bugs have been lying in wait, a pimple on Mr. Toad's
>azz for years, waiting for some poor, irresponsible, unvaccinated kid to climb aboard.

Or more likely, one of the ~600 cases of measles that occurred in the US in 2014 went to Disneyland and sneezed.

[lawrocket 3]

billvon

> I did suggest that "illegal immigrants" are a subset of possible sources

Yes. So are anti-vaxxers. And based on the increase in measles in the US over the past four years, anti-vaxxers are a much more likely source of infection. Imagining that they are due to illegal immigrants is paranoid right-wing nonsense; unfortunately all too common. Look at the Ebola scare

When illegal immigrants take up residences in rich white neighborhoods then blaming immigrants will make sense.

As it is, illegal immigration has been an issue for decades. If they're brining measles hey have been and it hasn't been a problem because people haven't been vaccinated. But since 2000 (when the U.S. declared measles as eliminated (not eradicated)) there has been a change in the vaccination pattern. Leading to the spread.

An immigrant or immigrant may have brought it in. But we wealthy white Americans with our arrogance got it spread.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rehmwa 2]

lawrocket

An immigrant or immigrant may have brought it in. But we wealthy white Americans with our arrogance got it spread.

so all 'anti-vaxers' are wealthy and white in this country?

that's interesting, I would have finished that sentence with 'residents' or citizens maybe

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[muff528 3]

Overall the US has 92% vax rate for measles. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/02/02/obama-cdc-urge-vaccinations-to-curb-measles-outbreak

From the same article: "Public health officials attributed the spread to people traveling from the Philippines, which experienced a measles epidemic." (...probably going to Disneyland.)
______________


Herd Immunity Threshold - I've seen numbers from 90-94%. Presumably, some of the 6-10% are anti-vaxers and some are not eligible for vax. Could undocumented immigration, legal or illegal, push the real unvaccinated numbers below the ~92% threshold, allowing an outbreak to occur?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16218769

_____________

Different story in the UK: http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/why-vaccinate

"This is precisely what happened in England when MMR (measles, mumps, and rubella) vaccination rates dropped. Measles is extremely infectious; therefore, it has a higher herd immunity threshold than most other diseases. In the late 1990s, MMR vaccination rates began to drop from more than 90% to 80% or lower—well below the level required for herd immunity against measles. In response, the number of cases began to rise: while only 56 cases were confirmed in Wales and England in 1998, 1,348 were confirmed by 2008. A disease whose spread in the country had been halted more than a decade prior was once again endemic."

Why? Unchecked immigration? Sudden increase in religious/ideological/fundy taboo against vaccination? Both?
______________

...And in California: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/vaccinated-people-catch-measles/story?id=28631939

"Those five known vaccinated people were all residents of California where many counties are below the 92 percent vaccination rate required for "herd immunity" threshold, according to state health department."

Why? Anti-vaxers? Immigration? Probably could be either, or both, in this case.

[billvon 2,435]

Why? Anti-vaxers? Immigration? Probably could be either, or both, in this case.

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

Measles has been on the rise since 2007, which saw a historically low number of cases. We saw a significant increase in 2011 and 2013 and then a very big spike in 2014. Thus we'd expect to see more cases in the US this year as the disease spreads rapidly through the usual methods of contagious disease propagation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2014/09/PH-2014-09-03-immigration-01.png&w=1484

Meanwhile, illegal immigration peaked in 2007 and has been below that peak ever since.

So going by the available facts, the most likely cause is the spreading contagion within the US. (I realize that makes it harder to achieve your political goals on immigration, but that's life.)

[kallend 1,651]

There are some 50,000,000 legal foreign visitors to the US every year. They way outnumber illegals.

Requiring vaccination records from all these would essentially kill tourism in this country

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[muff528 3]

billvon

Why? Anti-vaxers? Immigration? Probably could be either, or both, in this case.

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

Measles has been on the rise since 2007, which saw a historically low number of cases. We saw a significant increase in 2011 and 2013 and then a very big spike in 2014. Thus we'd expect to see more cases in the US this year as the disease spreads rapidly through the usual methods of contagious disease propagation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2014/09/PH-2014-09-03-immigration-01.png&w=1484

Meanwhile, illegal immigration peaked in 2007 and has been below that peak ever since.

So going by the available facts, the most likely cause is the spreading contagion within the US. (I realize that makes it harder to achieve your political goals on immigration, but that's life.)

You keep harping on illegal immigration which says more about your political agenda than mine. Measles don't care whether immigrants are legal or illegal, and in fact the first link I posted, dated today, does imply that the CDC ("public health officials") recognizes a Filipino nexus for the current outbreak. Besides, I'm only asking questions. I don't have a political agenda with regard to immigration. I do support the enforcing of immigration laws for a variety of reasons, none of which are grounded in racism, nationalism, or any other bigotry. As such, I have come to expect leftist caterwauling and insinuation about racism, misogyny, etc. as part of their counterattack to perceived attacks on their agendae. Of course, the goal is to shut down dissent. Even some lefties are getting tired of that.

[jakee 1,262]

Quote

Different story in the UK: http://www.historyofvaccines.org/...ticles/why-vaccinate

Why? Unchecked immigration? Sudden increase in religious/ideological/fundy taboo against vaccination? Both?

Neither. It was the sudden increase in Andrew Wakefield

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,435]

>You keep harping on illegal immigration

Since it was in your first post on the subject:

Quote

***CDC is saying that one of those is probably the source.

I'm sure that the flood of illegal immigrant "children" who recently arrived from Central America has not even crossed their minds.

If you are walking that one back - good on you.

> I don't have a political agenda with regard to immigration. . .leftist caterwauling and
>insinuation about racism, misogyny, etc. as part of their counterattack to perceived
>attacks on their agendae. Of course, the goal is to shut down dissent. Even some
>lefties are getting tired of that.

A priceless bit of SC gold.

[lawrocket 3]

rehmwa

***An immigrant or immigrant may have brought it in. But we wealthy white Americans with our arrogance got it spread.

so all 'anti-vaxers' are wealthy and white in this country?

that's interesting, I would have finished that sentence with 'residents' or citizens maybe

Yeah. it takes. Certain level of education, wealth and arrogance to deliberately deny a vaccine for a kid on the basis of some idea out in the media. I doubt this is an idea spreading through the rest of the world via the Internet. I have a hard time imagining hordes of people trekking to our shores with RFK, Jr. in their minds warning of the dangers of global warming and vaccinations.

I actually see RFK, Jr. as kinda the stereotype anti-vaxxer. Wealthy. Educated. Self absorbed. And messianic in the belief that he knows what nobody else does and that others out there should simply follow his lead.

Anti-vaxxers shop at Whole Foods, demand organics and non-GMO, drive smart cars, because anything else is harmful.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[muff528 3]

kallend

There are some 50,000,000 legal foreign visitors to the US every year. They way outnumber illegals.

Requiring vaccination records from all these would essentially kill tourism in this country

Yes, we, as a country, have decided that killing a few random citizens is much better than killing tourism. "For the greater good", and all that. We can always blame them for their own demise anyway. I might even agree to some extent.

[billvon 2,435]

>Yes, we, as a country, have decided that killing a few random citizens is much better
>than killing tourism.

Yep. Heck, we believe that killing 13,000 random citizens a year is preferable to slightly higher electricity prices. We even have people here defending that idea.

[jakee 1,262]

muff528

Yes, we, as a country, have decided that killing a few random citizens is much better than killing tourism. "For the greater good", and all that. We can always blame them for their own demise anyway. I might even agree to some extent.

You should.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[muff528 3]

billvon

>You keep harping on illegal immigration

Since it was in your first post on the subject:

Quote

***CDC is saying that one of those is probably the source.

I'm sure that the flood of illegal immigrant "children" who recently arrived from Central America has not even crossed their minds.

If you are walking that one back - good on you.

If you read my posts with any comprehension, you might understand I was commenting on the CDC and this administration's failed immigration policy, and using a recent, high-profile event to only to make the point. You guys ran with the notion that I was disparaging illegal immigrants aspect from there.

Quote

> I don't have a political agenda with regard to immigration. . .leftist caterwauling and
>insinuation about racism, misogyny, etc. as part of their counterattack to perceived
>attacks on their agendae. Of course, the goal is to shut down dissent. Even some
>lefties are getting tired of that.

A priceless bit of SC gold.

See there? You're doing it again! A lot of contextual stuff left out where you put those 3 dots. Another well-documented lefty tactic. Fools' gold.

[muff528 3]

billvon

>Yes, we, as a country, have decided that killing a few random citizens is much better
>than killing tourism.

Yep. Heck, we believe that killing 13,000 random citizens a year is preferable to slightly higher electricity prices. We even have people here defending that idea.

Relax, ...we'll get our alternative energy in due time.

[billvon 2,435]

>If you read my posts with any comprehension, you might understand I was commenting
>on the CDC and this administration's failed immigration policy, and using a recent,
>high-profile event to only to make the point.

No, you weren't. I'll add in some more context.

Muff: I'm especially in favor of returning to immigration policies that require screening and vaccination of ALL incoming immigrants.

WJoe: All incoming immigrants? Including tourists? Or Americans coming back from abroad? CDC is saying that one of those is probably the source.

Muff: I'm sure that the flood of illegal immigrant "children" who recently arrived from Central America has not even crossed their minds.

You said you were in favor of screening all immigrants. WJoe mentioned the CDC thought it was more likely tourists or Americans coming back from abroad. You then said that the CDC overlooked illegal immigrant "children" as the source of the infection.

Now you're trying to "walk that one back." Good for you.

[billvon 2,435]

Good article from the Texas Observer:

====================
Disease Threat From Immigrant Children Wildly Overstated
The Central American kids arriving in Texas are likely to be better-vaccinated than children in Texas.
by Rachel Pearson Published on Thursday, July 10, 2014, at 12:02 CST

With thousands of children from Central America arriving at the U.S.-Mexico border, an old plague is once again sweeping the country—the fear of the diseased immigrant.

“Our schools cannot handle this influx, we don’t even know what all diseases they have,” U.S. Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) said recently. “Our health care systems can’t withstand this influx.”

Fox News commentator Cal Thomas asks, for example, if “the unaccompanied minors pouring over the border…have brought with them proof of vaccination?” Thomas accuses the border-crossers of harboring vaccine-preventable diseases such as “mumps, measles, rubella, polio, tetanus and diphtheria.”

Before demonizing undocumented children, we should look at the facts: The vast majority of Central Americans are vaccinated against all these diseases. Governments concerned about health, and good parents investing in their kids, have made Central American kids better-vaccinated than Texan kids. We fear them not because they are actually sick, but because of powerful anti-immigration narratives that link foreigners to disease.

Consider, for example, Guatemala. According to the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF), Guatemalan kids are more likely than Texans to be immunized for most infectious diseases. Guatemala has universal health care. Vaccines are 100 percent funded by the government.

By comparison, one in six kids in Texas is uninsured, and even insured families often must pay for vaccination. That means that many Texas kids fall behind on vaccinations, or miss them altogether when their family can’t afford a doctor’s visit. Other families refuse vaccination.

Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet, a Fox News commentator and former director of the ultra-conservative political group Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, writes in the McAllen Monitor that measles is among the “diseases the United States had controlled or virtually eradicated” that are “carried across the border by this tsunami of illegals.”

Fact check: UNICEF reports that 93 percent of kids in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador are vaccinated against measles. That’s better than American kids (92 percent).

Furthermore, it’s absurd to claim that the U.S. has eradicated measles while Central America has not. In fact, measles outbreaks have resurged in some American cities. By contrast, according to the World Health Organization, neither Guatemala nor Honduras has had a reported case of measles since 1990.
===================
http://www.texasobserver.org/disease-threat-immigrant-children-wildly-overstated/

[muff528 3]

jakee

Quote

Different story in the UK: http://www.historyofvaccines.org/...ticles/why-vaccinate

Why? Unchecked immigration? Sudden increase in religious/ideological/fundy taboo against vaccination? Both?

Neither. It was the sudden increase in Andrew Wakefield

Thanks, that does make sense.

[muff528 3]

billvon

>If you read my posts with any comprehension, you might understand I was commenting
>on the CDC and this administration's failed immigration policy, and using a recent,
>high-profile event to only to make the point.

No, you weren't. I'll add in some more context.

Muff: I'm especially in favor of returning to immigration policies that require screening and vaccination of ALL incoming immigrants.

WJoe: All incoming immigrants? Including tourists? Or Americans coming back from abroad? CDC is saying that one of those is probably the source.

Muff: I'm sure that the flood of illegal immigrant "children" who recently arrived from Central America has not even crossed their minds.

You said you were in favor of screening all immigrants. WJoe mentioned the CDC thought it was more likely tourists or Americans coming back from abroad. You then said that the CDC overlooked illegal immigrant "children" as the source of the infection.

Now you're trying to "walk that one back." Good for you.

Yes, from post #93:

"If you read my posts with any comprehension, you might understand I was commenting on the CDC and this administration's failed immigration policy, and using a recent, high-profile event to only to make the point. You guys ran with the notion that I was disparaging illegal immigrants aspect from there."

That explanation was referring to that exact comment. You can take it for what you will.

[muff528 3]

billvon

Good article from the Texas Observer:.........

Yeah, I already commented on this nonsense up-thread.

[jclalor 12]

Very entertaining to watch the Governor of New Jersey today advocate for parental choice on vaccinating children. According to the Governor, more needs to be known about the link between vaccines and autism. Why he feels he needs to pander to the far nutty right is beyond me.

And this was the same guy who forcibly quarantined the nurse returning from Africa, over fears of Ebola, even though she was symptom free. He claimed that he was doing this in the name of "Public health".