CBO Report: Obamacare to cut work hours by equivalent of 2 million jobs

[kelpdiver 2]

PiLFy

I agree w/most of your points, but one thing doesn't add up. If the US has such world class health care for all. Why are we ranked 35th in life expectancy?

[Url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy[/url]

It isn't working...

Aside from cost efficiency, it works fine. Considering our first world ranks for murder and obesity rates, it's a pretty strong showing. If you want to raise results, you need to:

1) get people to eat better - less junk/fast food, more greens.
2) get people to walk more, drive less. No idling 2 minutes in the parking lot to park right in front of the escalator to the 24 hr fitness (in San Diego). Park at the back where spaces are freely available At the macro level, stop civil planning around the car.
3) related to #2, less TV, more outdoor activity. IOW, stop cancelling PE in schools, and parents stop letting xbox/ps sports be the only ones your kids play.
4) get people to abuse drugs less. Huge contribution to infant mortality rates (along with different standard for measuring). Huge contribution to crime.
5) legalize drugs. Reduce the benefits of murdering each other for the business. Reduce the costs of the products so people don't commit crime to pay for the habit.

Now when you look at this....what can an organization like Kaiser do to improve any of them? Absolutely nothing. The medical world has coped with these problems with outstanding advances in acute care, and in drugs that mitigate the effects of our lifestyle choices. But most of these problem come from our collective decisions to ignore what we know is best.

[PiLFy 0]

kelpdiver

***I agree w/most of your points, but one thing doesn't add up. If the US has such world class health care for all. Why are we ranked 35th in life expectancy?

[Url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy[/url]

It isn't working...

Aside from cost efficiency, it works fine. Considering our first world ranks for murder and obesity rates, it's a pretty strong showing. If you want to raise results, you need to:

1) get people to eat better - less junk/fast food, more greens.
2) get people to walk more, drive less. No idling 2 minutes in the parking lot to park right in front of the escalator to the 24 hr fitness (in San Diego). Park at the back where spaces are freely available At the macro level, stop civil planning around the car.
3) related to #2, less TV, more outdoor activity. IOW, stop cancelling PE in schools, and parents stop letting xbox/ps sports be the only ones your kids play.
4) get people to abuse drugs less. Huge contribution to infant mortality rates (along with different standard for measuring). Huge contribution to crime.
5) legalize drugs. Reduce the benefits of murdering each other for the business. Reduce the costs of the products so people don't commit crime to pay for the habit.

Now when you look at this....what can an organization like Kaiser do to improve any of them? Absolutely nothing. The medical world has coped with these problems with outstanding advances in acute care, and in drugs that mitigate the effects of our lifestyle choices. But most of these problem come from our collective decisions to ignore what we know is best.

Your points have a lot to do w/it, yes. I do disagree w/some of your thoughts about drugs, though. More to the point, large Insurers do any number of evil things just to hold onto more money. There have been a multitude of cases where the big Insurers literally threw people into the abyss. Knowing those very sick People would die. They've even structured bonuses so the more people some insurance minions screwed over. The more they'd make in performance bonuses.

Accessibility & affordability are the areas where the large Insurers could meaningfully contribute to public health. Another example would be two People who are each diagnosed w/the same type of Cancer. One Patient has [remium coverage, & receives top shelf treatments throughout their battle. They survive, & return to their life. The second Patient has marginal coverage, & receives cut-rate care from Day One. That Person dies.

I'd love to see a number of the changes you mentioned. There is much more the insurance industry could do, though. They're far from innocent in this debate.

[PiLFy 0]

"Several reasons:
(1) Diseases of affluence (obesity, diabetes, high BPetc);
(2) Failure to access care;
(3) Expectation that a pill will cure what they've got; and
(4) Melting pot."

1 & 4 are very good points. The other two don't figure into it much, IMO. Unless you meant the inability to access care, by number two? I recently read somewhere that Obamanos used the argument that 30 million Americans lacked health insurance, to help pitch the ADA. Today, a different 30 million don't have health insurance, & many others are paying far more for what they do have... Has anyone done projections of how many will lose coverage again once the Govt. premium assistance ends in a few years? All the ADA did, was shift the cost of America's health care back onto the citizenry, & away from state & Fed Govt.s It's a hustle like any other BS that comes from the Feds.

Back to the main point. I agree 100%. Having the Country lose 2.5 Million Job's worth of productivity, & replacing it by increasing the dole to an even larger population, is counterproductive by definition.

[kelpdiver 2]

PiLFy

I'd love to see a number of the changes you mentioned. There is much more the insurance industry could do, though. They're far from innocent in this debate.

sure, far from innocent, but when you're comparing the differences in life expectancy, it is a small item. In many of the other nations that provide slower free care, people also die or get poorer treatment and outcome due to lack of speedy care.

Ironically, I think the smoking rate in the US (18%) may be lower than some of these with better life spans.

[davjohns 1]

Medical care can not make up for lack of health care. We call our medical care 'health care'. It is not. Caring for your health is an individual responsibility. We gave up on individual responsibility.

Last I heard, heart problems were the leading cause of death in the US. Medical care can help. Health care is better. Stop smoking. Limit red meat. Eat more veggies, fruit, and lean meats. Exercise like your life depends on it. Treat your body like it has to last a lifetime.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[kelpdiver 2]

davjohns

Last I heard, heart problems were the leading cause of death in the US. Medical care can help. Health care is better. Stop smoking. Limit red meat. Eat more veggies, fruit, and lean meats. Exercise like your life depends on it. Treat your body like it has to last a lifetime.

And for an alternative point of view - live well. Is it better to live great for 50 years and give up two or three in a care home at the end?

[brenthutch 388]

kelpdiver

***
Last I heard, heart problems were the leading cause of death in the US. Medical care can help. Health care is better. Stop smoking. Limit red meat. Eat more veggies, fruit, and lean meats. Exercise like your life depends on it. Treat your body like it has to last a lifetime.

And for an alternative point of view - live well. Is it better to live great for 50 years and give up two or three in a care home at the end?

I think that movie was called Logan's Run.

[kelpdiver 2]

brenthutch

And for an alternative point of view - live well. Is it better to live great for 50 years and give up two or three in a care home at the end?

I think that movie was called Logan's Run.

They only got 40, iirc, and it didn't matter how well or poorly they lived it. I'm talking more about what you do between 20 and 70.

There's a healthy amount of research that says that mice (and people) who live on 50% intake live substantially longer, but again, what is the quality of that life? I'm keeping my grass fed meat, my wine and scotch, my unpasteurized cheese and orange/apple juice, tuna and steak tar tar, raw cookie dough, and fuck the consequences.

[brenthutch 388]

Amen brother.

[davjohns 1]

Just a personal observation...I don't miss the gravy, sauces, breads, etc. It takes a bit to get used to a healthier diet. Once you do, you realize that all those foods you were smothering in dressing, butter, and the like really have their own flavor. So, you don't really give up anything.

I consider myself living well right now. I can do whatever I want without worrying about whether my body is up to it. And I think I'll continue that way for many years to come.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[kelpdiver 2]

davjohns

Just a personal observation...I don't miss the gravy, sauces, breads, etc. It takes a bit to get used to a healthier diet. Once you do, you realize that all those foods you were smothering in dressing, butter, and the like really have their own flavor. So, you don't really give up anything.

I don't smother anything in dressing. My salads are lightly dressed, my burgers completely undressed. But I'm not going to restrict myself to a 4oz serving of protein, either. Consider it closer to the French paradox.

[davjohns 1]

Sounds like you are doing good. I don't know of any reason to restrict protein intake unless it's excess red meat. Even then, one portion isn't going to be the difference. Consistent is the word.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[SkyDekker 1,150]

Quote

my wine and scotch

Which you drink to get drunk right?

Cause those who say they drink for the taste of it are liars.

[base698 1]

Quote

Sounds like you are doing good. I don't know of any reason to restrict protein intake unless it's excess red meat. Even then, one portion isn't going to be the difference. Consistent is the word.

I don't know why you'd restrict it period. Lots of research is showing saturated fat isn't bad like they thought and the excess sugar they replaced it with was worse. Fat also makes you feel full unlike sugar which has the opposite effect.

http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/is-sugar-toxic


http://m.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet-and-fitness/john-yudkin-the-man-who-tried-to-warn-us-about-sugar-20140212-32h03.html

[kelpdiver 2]

SkyDekker

Quote

my wine and scotch

Which you drink to get drunk right?

Cause those who say they drink for the taste of it are liars.

Can't it be both?

[SkyDekker 1,150]

kelpdiver

***

Quote

my wine and scotch

Which you drink to get drunk right?

Cause those who say they drink for the taste of it are liars.

Can't it be both?

Sure...according to me, it can even be either or.