Light at the end of the tunnel

[billvon 2,434]

Some good news today:

====================
Shutdown Day 10: House GOP will propose a short-term debt ceiling proposal
By Tom Cohen and Dana Bash, CNN
updated 11:51 AM EDT, Thu October 10, 2013

Washington (CNN) -- House Republican leaders said Thursday they will propose a temporary increase in the nation's borrowing limit -- a first step toward a potential compromise to end the political stalemate that has shut down parts of the government and threatens a U.S. default as soon as next week.

After meeting with his caucus, House Speaker John Boehner said Republicans want substantive talks with President Barack Obama and Democrats on reducing the nation's chronic federal deficits and debt in return for removing the immediate threat of default.

Sources said the House GOP measure would extend the debt ceiling until November 22.
=====================

What brought this on? Sadly it was not the plight of veterans, families of fallen soldiers, the many thousands of government workers who are now unemployed, or the risk of losing millions in science from ongoing NASA missions. It was something much more personal and important to republicans - their wallets.

======================
In Politics
Robyn Pennacchia
Oct 9, 2013

Koch brothers now say they don’t support the shutdown they engineered

In a letter to the Senate after Harry Reid brought it up on the floor, Phillip Ellender, a spokesperson for Koch Industries, insisted that they had nothing to do with it and had not taken a position on defunding Obamacare in this particular way.
========================

[rushmc 18]

billvon

Some good news today:

====================
Shutdown Day 10: House GOP will propose a short-term debt ceiling proposal
By Tom Cohen and Dana Bash, CNN
updated 11:51 AM EDT, Thu October 10, 2013

Washington (CNN) -- House Republican leaders said Thursday they will propose a temporary increase in the nation's borrowing limit -- a first step toward a potential compromise to end the political stalemate that has shut down parts of the government and threatens a U.S. default as soon as next week.

After meeting with his caucus, House Speaker John Boehner said Republicans want substantive talks with President Barack Obama and Democrats on reducing the nation's chronic federal deficits and debt in return for removing the immediate threat of default.

Sources said the House GOP measure would extend the debt ceiling until November 22.
=====================

What brought this on? Sadly it was not the plight of veterans, families of fallen soldiers, the many thousands of government workers who are now unemployed, or the risk of losing millions in science from ongoing NASA missions. It was something much more personal and important to republicans - their wallets.

======================
In Politics
Robyn Pennacchia
Oct 9, 2013

Koch brothers now say they don’t support the shutdown they engineered

In a letter to the Senate after Harry Reid brought it up on the floor, Phillip Ellender, a spokesperson for Koch Industries, insisted that they had nothing to do with it and had not taken a position on defunding Obamacare in this particular way.
========================

whew bill

I think your hat (tin foil or what ever) is too tight

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

I've heard the Koch Brothers killed JFK.

[catfishhunter 1]

rushmc

***Some good news today:

====================
Shutdown Day 10: House GOP will propose a short-term debt ceiling proposal
By Tom Cohen and Dana Bash, CNN
updated 11:51 AM EDT, Thu October 10, 2013

Washington (CNN) -- House Republican leaders said Thursday they will propose a temporary increase in the nation's borrowing limit -- a first step toward a potential compromise to end the political stalemate that has shut down parts of the government and threatens a U.S. default as soon as next week.

After meeting with his caucus, House Speaker John Boehner said Republicans want substantive talks with President Barack Obama and Democrats on reducing the nation's chronic federal deficits and debt in return for removing the immediate threat of default.

Sources said the House GOP measure would extend the debt ceiling until November 22.
=====================

What brought this on? Sadly it was not the plight of veterans, families of fallen soldiers, the many thousands of government workers who are now unemployed, or the risk of losing millions in science from ongoing NASA missions. It was something much more personal and important to republicans - their wallets.

======================
In Politics
Robyn Pennacchia
Oct 9, 2013

Koch brothers now say they don’t support the shutdown they engineered

In a letter to the Senate after Harry Reid brought it up on the floor, Phillip Ellender, a spokesperson for Koch Industries, insisted that they had nothing to do with it and had not taken a position on defunding Obamacare in this particular way.
========================

whew bill

I think your hat (tin foil or what ever) is too tight

We really need a like button....

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[powerofbinary 0]

The 1% have decided that they've gone as far as they can with this engineered crisis. On to the next engineered crisis.

http://www.texasobserver.org/empire-building-2/

Much of the Koch brothers' ideology can be found in Harry Koch's newspaper editorials of nearly a century ago. Take, for instance, the Kochs' current fight against Social Security. Harry Koch took part in a multi-year right-wing propaganda campaign to shoot down New Deal programs. Grandfather and grandsons employ eerily familiar talking points to bash government pension and welfare programs.

"No political system can possibly guarantee either a national economic security or an individual standard of living. Government can guarantee no man a job or a livelihood," Harry Koch wrote on February 1, 1935, nine months before Charles Koch was born.

Fast-forward 75 years and you can see Charles Koch using the same lines of attack in his company's newsletter: "government actions ... stifle economic growth and job creation, which in turn will significantly reduce the standard of living of American families."

[mirage62 0]

Hell that quote is as true today as it was in 1935. The government CAN provide jobs as long as we the people provide the government the money (taxes) to pay someone.

The government does not in large amounts create wealth (other than research)

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[powerofbinary 0]

I'm sure it was the government that won the war. Not much point in accumulating wealth if you can't keep it.

[OHCHUTE 0]

mirage62

Hell that quote is as true today as it was in 1935. The government CAN provide jobs as long as we the people provide the government the money (taxes) to pay someone.

The government does not in large amounts create wealth (other than research)

You should live around here if you think the gov't doesn't create wealth: how about wealthy gov't workers who don't even go to work or while at work, are working on their own enterprises. Then consider retired gov't workers who are making more than they were working! Lot's of Lincolns and Mercedes coming out of government parking lots. Housing prices are double than in most places. Then there is the beltway bandits who have literally surrounded the capital sucking of the big tit getting fat. Gov't creates wealth believe me.

[kallend 1,648]

OHCHUTE

***Hell that quote is as true today as it was in 1935. The government CAN provide jobs as long as we the people provide the government the money (taxes) to pay someone.

The government does not in large amounts create wealth (other than research)

You should live around here if you think the gov't doesn't create wealth: how about wealthy gov't workers who don't even go to work or while at work, are working on their own enterprises. Then consider retired gov't workers who are making more than they were working! Lot's of Lincolns and Mercedes coming out of government parking lots. Housing prices are double than in most places. Then there is the beltway bandits who have literally surrounded the capital sucking of the big tit getting fat. Gov't creates wealth believe me.

Funneling money from one place to another doesn't create wealth. This applies to the government as much as it applies to banks and to stock traders.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[OHCHUTE 0]

kallend

******Hell that quote is as true today as it was in 1935. The government CAN provide jobs as long as we the people provide the government the money (taxes) to pay someone.

The government does not in large amounts create wealth (other than research)

You should live around here if you think the gov't doesn't create wealth: how about wealthy gov't workers who don't even go to work or while at work, are working on their own enterprises. Then consider retired gov't workers who are making more than they were working! Lot's of Lincolns and Mercedes coming out of government parking lots. Housing prices are double than in most places. Then there is the beltway bandits who have literally surrounded the capital sucking of the big tit getting fat. Gov't creates wealth believe me.

Funneling money from one place to another doesn't create wealth. This applies to the government as much as it applies to banks and to stock traders.

But if the Fed Res. creates money out of thin air and that money eventually turns into real estate, cars and diamonds, then that is creating wealth. I guess it depends too on your definition of wealth, for instance you're wealthy so long there's not tubes hanging off your body or a drool cup around your neck. Let alone sucking off that air bottle. Rich is a state of mind.

[kallend 1,648]

OHCHUTE

*********Hell that quote is as true today as it was in 1935. The government CAN provide jobs as long as we the people provide the government the money (taxes) to pay someone.

The government does not in large amounts create wealth (other than research)

You should live around here if you think the gov't doesn't create wealth: how about wealthy gov't workers who don't even go to work or while at work, are working on their own enterprises. Then consider retired gov't workers who are making more than they were working! Lot's of Lincolns and Mercedes coming out of government parking lots. Housing prices are double than in most places. Then there is the beltway bandits who have literally surrounded the capital sucking of the big tit getting fat. Gov't creates wealth believe me.

Funneling money from one place to another doesn't create wealth. This applies to the government as much as it applies to banks and to stock traders.

But if the Fed Res. creates money out of thin air and that money eventually turns into real estate, cars and diamonds, then that is creating wealth. I guess it depends too on your definition of wealth, for instance you're wealthy so long there's not tubes hanging off your body or a drool cup around your neck. Let alone sucking off that air bottle. Rich is a state of mind.



As long a money can be printed at will, it doesn't represent true wealth.

"If," he said tersely, "we could for a moment move on to the subject of fiscal policy ..."

"Fiscal policy!" whooped Ford Prefect. "Fiscal policy!"

The management consultant gave him a look that only a lungfish could have copied.

"Fiscal policy ..." he repeated, "that is what I said."

"How can you have money," demanded Ford, "if none of you actually produces anything? It doesn't grow on trees you know."

"If you would allow me to continue ..."

Ford nodded dejectedly.

"Thank you. Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have, of course, all become immensely rich."

Ford stared in disbelief at the crowd who were murmuring appreciatively at this and greedily fingering the wads of leaves with which their track suits were stuffed.

"But we have also," continued the management consultant, "run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability, which means that, I gather, the current going rate has something like three deciduous forests buying one ship's peanut."

Murmurs of alarm came from the crowd. The management consultant waved them down.

"So in order to obviate this problem," he continued, "and effectively revalue the leaf, we are about to embark on a massive defoliation campaign, and ... er, burn down all the forests. I think you'll all agree that's a sensible move under the circumstances."

The crowd seemed a little uncertain about this for a second or two until someone pointed out how much this would increase the value of the leaves in their pockets whereupon they let out whoops of delight and gave the management consultant a standing ovation. The accountants among them looked forward to a profitable autumn.

"You're all mad," explained Ford Prefect.

"You're absolutely barmy," he suggested.

"You're a bunch of raving nutters," he opined.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[OHCHUTE 0]

kallend

************Hell that quote is as true today as it was in 1935. The government CAN provide jobs as long as we the people provide the government the money (taxes) to pay someone.

The government does not in large amounts create wealth (other than research)

You should live around here if you think the gov't doesn't create wealth: how about wealthy gov't workers who don't even go to work or while at work, are working on their own enterprises. Then consider retired gov't workers who are making more than they were working! Lot's of Lincolns and Mercedes coming out of government parking lots. Housing prices are double than in most places. Then there is the beltway bandits who have literally surrounded the capital sucking of the big tit getting fat. Gov't creates wealth believe me.

Funneling money from one place to another doesn't create wealth. This applies to the government as much as it applies to banks and to stock traders.

But if the Fed Res. creates money out of thin air and that money eventually turns into real estate, cars and diamonds, then that is creating wealth. I guess it depends too on your definition of wealth, for instance you're wealthy so long there's not tubes hanging off your body or a drool cup around your neck. Let alone sucking off that air bottle. Rich is a state of mind.



As long a money can be printed at will, it doesn't represent true wealth.

"If," he said tersely, "we could for a moment move on to the subject of fiscal policy ..."

"Fiscal policy!" whooped Ford Prefect. "Fiscal policy!"

The management consultant gave him a look that only a lungfish could have copied.

"Fiscal policy ..." he repeated, "that is what I said."

"How can you have money," demanded Ford, "if none of you actually produces anything? It doesn't grow on trees you know."

"If you would allow me to continue ..."

Ford nodded dejectedly.

"Thank you. Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have, of course, all become immensely rich."

Ford stared in disbelief at the crowd who were murmuring appreciatively at this and greedily fingering the wads of leaves with which their track suits were stuffed.

"But we have also," continued the management consultant, "run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability, which means that, I gather, the current going rate has something like three deciduous forests buying one ship's peanut."

Murmurs of alarm came from the crowd. The management consultant waved them down.

"So in order to obviate this problem," he continued, "and effectively revalue the leaf, we are about to embark on a massive defoliation campaign, and ... er, burn down all the forests. I think you'll all agree that's a sensible move under the circumstances."

The crowd seemed a little uncertain about this for a second or two until someone pointed out how much this would increase the value of the leaves in their pockets whereupon they let out whoops of delight and gave the management consultant a standing ovation. The accountants among them looked forward to a profitable autumn.

"You're all mad," explained Ford Prefect.

"You're absolutely barmy," he suggested.

"You're a bunch of raving nutters," he opined.

True wealth?

So someone who inherits money they didn't earn themselves are not wealthy as it's not true wealth.

What is false wealth then?

As long as you have money to buy stuff, lot of stuff, stuff you don't even need, or to throw away, then I'd say you are wealthy no matter how the money was created, printed, digitally formed, before you got it.

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

What is false wealth then?

Taxes. Federal Budget. Welfare.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Funneling money from one place to another doesn't create wealth.

Spoken like a conservative.

[kallend 1,648]

OHCHUTE

***************Hell that quote is as true today as it was in 1935. The government CAN provide jobs as long as we the people provide the government the money (taxes) to pay someone.

The government does not in large amounts create wealth (other than research)

You should live around here if you think the gov't doesn't create wealth: how about wealthy gov't workers who don't even go to work or while at work, are working on their own enterprises. Then consider retired gov't workers who are making more than they were working! Lot's of Lincolns and Mercedes coming out of government parking lots. Housing prices are double than in most places. Then there is the beltway bandits who have literally surrounded the capital sucking of the big tit getting fat. Gov't creates wealth believe me.

Funneling money from one place to another doesn't create wealth. This applies to the government as much as it applies to banks and to stock traders.

But if the Fed Res. creates money out of thin air and that money eventually turns into real estate, cars and diamonds, then that is creating wealth. I guess it depends too on your definition of wealth, for instance you're wealthy so long there's not tubes hanging off your body or a drool cup around your neck. Let alone sucking off that air bottle. Rich is a state of mind.



As long a money can be printed at will, it doesn't represent true wealth.

"If," he said tersely, "we could for a moment move on to the subject of fiscal policy ..."

"Fiscal policy!" whooped Ford Prefect. "Fiscal policy!"

The management consultant gave him a look that only a lungfish could have copied.

"Fiscal policy ..." he repeated, "that is what I said."

"How can you have money," demanded Ford, "if none of you actually produces anything? It doesn't grow on trees you know."

"If you would allow me to continue ..."

Ford nodded dejectedly.

"Thank you. Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have, of course, all become immensely rich."

Ford stared in disbelief at the crowd who were murmuring appreciatively at this and greedily fingering the wads of leaves with which their track suits were stuffed.

"But we have also," continued the management consultant, "run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability, which means that, I gather, the current going rate has something like three deciduous forests buying one ship's peanut."

Murmurs of alarm came from the crowd. The management consultant waved them down.

"So in order to obviate this problem," he continued, "and effectively revalue the leaf, we are about to embark on a massive defoliation campaign, and ... er, burn down all the forests. I think you'll all agree that's a sensible move under the circumstances."

The crowd seemed a little uncertain about this for a second or two until someone pointed out how much this would increase the value of the leaves in their pockets whereupon they let out whoops of delight and gave the management consultant a standing ovation. The accountants among them looked forward to a profitable autumn.

"You're all mad," explained Ford Prefect.

"You're absolutely barmy," he suggested.

"You're a bunch of raving nutters," he opined.

True wealth?

So someone who inherits money they didn't earn themselves are not wealthy as it's not true wealth.

What is false wealth then?

As long as you have money to buy stuff, lot of stuff, stuff you don't even need, or to throw away, then I'd say you are wealthy no matter how the money was created, printed, digitally formed, before you got it.

You ass-ume that the "stuff" has been created to begin with. Where does it come from if everyone is just moving money around instead of actually creating anything you really need.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.