rehmwa 2 #26 September 27, 2012 QuoteI still see no reason why someone should be innovative if there is no money to reward innovation. money for innovation - here's three examples 1 - the money reward is called the 'salary' for those with work ethics 2 - being innovative may be what's needed to keep the company alive. if the company goes out of business, then the job ends = no more money 3 - being REALLY innovative sometime gets things like 'spot bonuses' etc that aren't treated like an entitlement, but more like a happy surprise. that's also money, or trips, or whatever if the job is to be innovative, then do the job If a company finds out that more reward structure improves their bottom line, then they'll do that to attract the target employee. if not, then they don't. It's not rocket science. BV noted it: do a good job = get more.........repeat as needed ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #27 September 27, 2012 QuoteIf you are hired to innovate, then that's what you are paid for. Bill i think you are muddying the waters a little. There are those whose jobs is to be innovative and are paid accordingly. These are your standard R&D folks. These so called experts are stating that a major corporation will be able to obtain a level of innovation equal to that from ones R&D facility from their cubicle jockeys. And they can get this level of innovation without even having to set up any monetary compensation for them. Such as what was stated above where if an employee provided valuable insight / innovative concept they were given a finite sum. Since doing so would be work considered above and beyond their day to day duties. I’m saying is that due to the capitalist nature of our culture, I don’t think any innovation will appear unless the appropriate carrot is out there for the taking?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #28 September 27, 2012 QuoteI don’t think any innovation will appear unless the appropriate carrot is out there for the taking? IMHO - I think innovation is more a result of the company culture than just a reward structure motive to your point - if true, the proof of what you are saying will be directly due to the capitalist nature of the culture (if it's not destroyed), not despite it. Your metric - compare large groups of companies' level of success for those with bonus structures for patent vs those without NOT your metric - Is Shah happy today in his job. revisit this thread in 5 years and we'll check ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #29 September 27, 2012 Ultimately, in our current job market companies are able to pay less for the same person that they could several years ago. I suspect that in a number of cases companies aren't highering unless they find people that fit what they are looking for exactly... and the companies are often the ones with the cards... I do tend to agree somewhat with both sides of the arguements here as I think inovating in and of itself is very rewarding... I know I like solving problems and coming up with new ideas it excites me... However inovation also often yeilds additional profits and can (and probably should) be rewarded as long as the innovation is truly profitable... having said all of this... being closed minded either going in with the idea that one should definitely be rewarded for innovation or going in assuming that innovation is par for the course and should be assumed that everyone will innovate of their own volition despite the lack of a reward... is in my thinking a bad idea... Of course I say this knowing full well that I'm very soon going to be an engineer looking for work... and hopefully I'm able to find a company that is interested in me for who I am... and what I believe I can give to them...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #30 September 27, 2012 >There are those whose jobs is to be innovative and are paid accordingly. >These are your standard R&D folks. "Innovation" is far more than technical designs. Vilfredo Pareto developed the chart (used primarily for process management) that bears his name. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and Elon Musk all did far more innovation in their management styles than in their technical work. >And they can get this level of innovation without even having to set up >any monetary compensation for them. If they are saying they can get good innovation by just paying them a salary - damn right they can. If they are saying they can get better people by compensating them less - then that definitely won't work. Fortunately it's a non-issue; the good people at such a company will quit and go to work for a company that compensates them what they are worth. >I’m saying is that due to the capitalist nature of our culture, I don’t think >any innovation will appear unless the appropriate carrot is out there for the >taking? Agreed. In many cases that carrot is "you get to keep your job" or "you get a raise" or "you get promoted." (Or even "we're not going to pay you any more but we're going to give you a lab and let you do whatever you want.") Different people have different carrots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #31 September 27, 2012 QuoteYour metric - compare large groups of companies' level of success for those with bonus structures for patent vs those without Yes i was looking for this info but I think for the most part it's close hold. And i can understand it. For me, I'm driven by money. If there is money above and beyond my standard compensating package, such as spot awards for innovative thoughts…than yeah! But that’s me. And I’m not sure I’m the standard? What are your thoughts and what have you noticed in your experiences?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #32 September 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteI also have two public patents and a few classified patents... What the hell is a classified patent? (other than an oxymoron) Several types of special patents (or things like patents) I get the "things like patents" (maybe even a patent application that was pulled under a secrecy order) and I figured that's what he meant, I just find the term funny because the two words are incompatible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
