okalb 79 #26 May 24, 2012 QuoteWell, many law suits would be stopped if states would put into place one simple change Looser pays. You loose the suit, whether you started it or not, you pay the winning sides fees. All of them! Including the lawyers fees This would minimize many of the "I'll pay you a settlement because it is cheaper than fighting you" issue. Not necessarily true. I was sued by an ex business partner about 15 years ago. I offered her a settlement of $75k at the time which was a very fair offer. She sued for 7 figures. After 3 years of court battles and my spending $250K to defend myself, the judge awarded her $15K. In that case she won and would not have been responsible for the $250K in legal fees it cost me to defend myself. As a matter of fact, using your logic, I would have had to pay her legal fees.Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #27 May 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteWell, many law suits would be stopped if states would put into place one simple change Looser pays. You loose the suit, whether you started it or not, you pay the winning sides fees. All of them! Including the lawyers fees This would minimize many of the "I'll pay you a settlement because it is cheaper than fighting you" issue. Not necessarily true. I was sued by an ex business partner about 15 years ago. I offered her a settlement of $75k at the time which was a very fair offer. She sued for 7 figures. After 3 years of court battles and my spending $250K to defend myself, the judge awarded her $15K. In that case she won and would not have been responsible for the $250K in legal fees it cost me to defend myself. As a matter of fact, using your logic, I would have had to pay her legal fees. I do not know the details of the issues you had so I will ask a question IF, looser pays had been in place when all of that started, knowing the case as you did/do, what, if anything, would you have done differently?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 79 #28 May 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteWell, many law suits would be stopped if states would put into place one simple change Looser pays. You loose the suit, whether you started it or not, you pay the winning sides fees. All of them! Including the lawyers fees This would minimize many of the "I'll pay you a settlement because it is cheaper than fighting you" issue. Not necessarily true. I was sued by an ex business partner about 15 years ago. I offered her a settlement of $75k at the time which was a very fair offer. She sued for 7 figures. After 3 years of court battles and my spending $250K to defend myself, the judge awarded her $15K. In that case she won and would not have been responsible for the $250K in legal fees it cost me to defend myself. As a matter of fact, using your logic, I would have had to pay her legal fees. I do not know the details of the issues you had so I will ask a question IF, looser pays had been in place when all of that started, knowing the case as you did/do, what, if anything, would you have done differently? There was nothing I could have done differently. She filed a suit against me. I made her an extremely fair offer. She filed a ridiculous suit for an absurd amount of money that she knew we did not have even if we wanted to give it to her. The problem is that if you are being sued, you have no choice but to defend yourself, so I had to spend $250k to defend myself over the course of 3 years. In the end the judge awarded her a trivial amount (far less than I offered her in the first place), but since the judge awarded it to her, that would be seen as her winning.Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #29 May 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell, many law suits would be stopped if states would put into place one simple change Looser pays. You loose the suit, whether you started it or not, you pay the winning sides fees. All of them! Including the lawyers fees This would minimize many of the "I'll pay you a settlement because it is cheaper than fighting you" issue. Not necessarily true. I was sued by an ex business partner about 15 years ago. I offered her a settlement of $75k at the time which was a very fair offer. She sued for 7 figures. After 3 years of court battles and my spending $250K to defend myself, the judge awarded her $15K. In that case she won and would not have been responsible for the $250K in legal fees it cost me to defend myself. As a matter of fact, using your logic, I would have had to pay her legal fees. I do not know the details of the issues you had so I will ask a question IF, looser pays had been in place when all of that started, knowing the case as you did/do, what, if anything, would you have done differently? There was nothing I could have done differently. She filed a suit against me. I made her an extremely fair offer. She filed a ridiculous suit for an absurd amount of money that she knew we did not have even if we wanted to give it to her. The problem is that if you are being sued, you have no choice but to defend yourself, so I had to spend $250k to defend myself over the course of 3 years. In the end the judge awarded her a trivial amount (far less than I offered her in the first place), but since the judge awarded it to her, that would be seen as her winning. Understand Do you think, again, given your knowelge of the issue, if it was a risk for her to have to pay your legal fees, would she have acepted your offer or not sued you at all?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 79 #30 May 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell, many law suits would be stopped if states would put into place one simple change Looser pays. You loose the suit, whether you started it or not, you pay the winning sides fees. All of them! Including the lawyers fees This would minimize many of the "I'll pay you a settlement because it is cheaper than fighting you" issue. Not necessarily true. I was sued by an ex business partner about 15 years ago. I offered her a settlement of $75k at the time which was a very fair offer. She sued for 7 figures. After 3 years of court battles and my spending $250K to defend myself, the judge awarded her $15K. In that case she won and would not have been responsible for the $250K in legal fees it cost me to defend myself. As a matter of fact, using your logic, I would have had to pay her legal fees. I do not know the details of the issues you had so I will ask a question IF, looser pays had been in place when all of that started, knowing the case as you did/do, what, if anything, would you have done differently? There was nothing I could have done differently. She filed a suit against me. I made her an extremely fair offer. She filed a ridiculous suit for an absurd amount of money that she knew we did not have even if we wanted to give it to her. The problem is that if you are being sued, you have no choice but to defend yourself, so I had to spend $250k to defend myself over the course of 3 years. In the end the judge awarded her a trivial amount (far less than I offered her in the first place), but since the judge awarded it to her, that would be seen as her winning. Understand Do you think, again, given your knowelge of the issue, if it was a risk for her to have to pay your legal fees, would she have acepted your offer or not sued you at all? Probably not. She was entitled to something so no matter what she was going to be awarded something. According to the judge she was only entitled to $15K but that was still something. No matter how you look at it she was going to win, it was just a matter of how much. There was no way I could have or should have offered her any more than I did, so I can't see how the outcome would have been any different.Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #31 May 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell, many law suits would be stopped if states would put into place one simple change Looser pays. You loose the suit, whether you started it or not, you pay the winning sides fees. All of them! Including the lawyers fees This would minimize many of the "I'll pay you a settlement because it is cheaper than fighting you" issue. Not necessarily true. I was sued by an ex business partner about 15 years ago. I offered her a settlement of $75k at the time which was a very fair offer. She sued for 7 figures. After 3 years of court battles and my spending $250K to defend myself, the judge awarded her $15K. In that case she won and would not have been responsible for the $250K in legal fees it cost me to defend myself. As a matter of fact, using your logic, I would have had to pay her legal fees. I do not know the details of the issues you had so I will ask a question IF, looser pays had been in place when all of that started, knowing the case as you did/do, what, if anything, would you have done differently? There was nothing I could have done differently. She filed a suit against me. I made her an extremely fair offer. She filed a ridiculous suit for an absurd amount of money that she knew we did not have even if we wanted to give it to her. The problem is that if you are being sued, you have no choice but to defend yourself, so I had to spend $250k to defend myself over the course of 3 years. In the end the judge awarded her a trivial amount (far less than I offered her in the first place), but since the judge awarded it to her, that would be seen as her winning. Understand Do you think, again, given your knowelge of the issue, if it was a risk for her to have to pay your legal fees, would she have acepted your offer or not sued you at all? Probably not. She was entitled to something so no matter what she was going to be awarded something. According to the judge she was only entitled to $15K but that was still something. No matter how you look at it she was going to win, it was just a matter of how much. There was no way I could have or should have offered her any more than I did, so I can't see how the outcome would have been any different. In this case though, she had to loose money unless her lawyer was working for a percentage If so, the lawyer lost The only winner was your lawyer"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 79 #32 May 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell, many law suits would be stopped if states would put into place one simple change Looser pays. You loose the suit, whether you started it or not, you pay the winning sides fees. All of them! Including the lawyers fees This would minimize many of the "I'll pay you a settlement because it is cheaper than fighting you" issue. Not necessarily true. I was sued by an ex business partner about 15 years ago. I offered her a settlement of $75k at the time which was a very fair offer. She sued for 7 figures. After 3 years of court battles and my spending $250K to defend myself, the judge awarded her $15K. In that case she won and would not have been responsible for the $250K in legal fees it cost me to defend myself. As a matter of fact, using your logic, I would have had to pay her legal fees. I do not know the details of the issues you had so I will ask a question IF, looser pays had been in place when all of that started, knowing the case as you did/do, what, if anything, would you have done differently? There was nothing I could have done differently. She filed a suit against me. I made her an extremely fair offer. She filed a ridiculous suit for an absurd amount of money that she knew we did not have even if we wanted to give it to her. The problem is that if you are being sued, you have no choice but to defend yourself, so I had to spend $250k to defend myself over the course of 3 years. In the end the judge awarded her a trivial amount (far less than I offered her in the first place), but since the judge awarded it to her, that would be seen as her winning. Understand Do you think, again, given your knowelge of the issue, if it was a risk for her to have to pay your legal fees, would she have acepted your offer or not sued you at all? Probably not. She was entitled to something so no matter what she was going to be awarded something. According to the judge she was only entitled to $15K but that was still something. No matter how you look at it she was going to win, it was just a matter of how much. There was no way I could have or should have offered her any more than I did, so I can't see how the outcome would have been any different. In this case though, she had to loose money unless her lawyer was working for a percentage If so, the lawyer lost The only winner was your lawyer Her lawyer was working on a percentage. About every 6 months she would have a new lawyer once they realized that she was full of crap and they would never get any money. She would then just find a new lawyer and continue on. You are correct, in the end my lawyers were the only ones that benefitted from it. That and the fact that she made my life hell which I believe was all she was trying to do in the first place.Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aphid 0 #33 May 24, 2012 Do your jurisdictions not have court-ordered mediation/arbitration? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 79 #34 May 24, 2012 QuoteDo your jurisdictions not have court-ordered mediation/arbitration? Unfortunately not. Actually the first year of the fight was just about jurisdiction. We were based in CT, She was in CA and we were a DE corp.Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bertt 0 #35 May 24, 2012 If you want a market based on pure capitalism with no regulation at all, can I build my lead smelter upwind of your neighborhood?You don't have to outrun the bear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #36 May 24, 2012 Quote Probably not. She was entitled to something so no matter what she was going to be awarded something. According to the judge she was only entitled to $15K but that was still something. No matter how you look at it she was going to win, it was just a matter of how much. There was no way I could have or should have offered her any more than I did, so I can't see how the outcome would have been any different. I'm not a big fan of loser pays. I think the consequences are worse than the gains. But in light of your situation, it seems that the appropriate enhancement would be an initial mediation/settlement meeting. You offer 75k. And if rejected and a trial is forced, that should be the baseline for who wins. If the judgement is <= 75k, then she is the loser and pays. If the judgement is > 75k, then you're the loser and pays. Still full of issues, as seen yearly in baseball's arbitration process where each side picks a number (salary) and one party wins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #37 May 24, 2012 QuoteQuote...but it's still a profitable company... Uh, are you certain of that? As a private company they didn't have to disclose a thing, but in filing for their IPO, that changed. For FY 2011 they stated revenues of 3.7B with profits of 1.0B. It appears it has been profitable since at least 2009, and with a healthy 25% margin. This is the difference in the startup boom now, versus the one at the end of the 90s. No longer do you get millions in funding for sticking dotcom in your name. No longer can you ask for funding without having a tangible strategy to achieve profitability. And thanks to fantastic options in cloudspace, you can launch a substantial presence for remarkably little capital, something that was not an option then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
