AR-15 build optics question

[AggieDave 6]

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Thanks Dave. Those flip up sights sound like a must for a red dot scope...(just in case those batteries fail). Somebody said you can shoot out to 300 yards with a red dot. So, I guess you're not limited to close range only with that kind of scope.

I've always liked a sling for hunting purposes. On a couple rifles I have the old fashioned military sling. It has a loop in the middle that I can slip my arm through. I then take a wrap and have my left hand tight agains the front sling stud. It make a very accurate platform to shoot from. It's an old target shooters trick.

The only problem with my slings are that I sometimes get in the habit of using them too much. I remember once missing my chance at an elk. There the elk was right in front of me. Instead of being ready, my rifle was hanging on my shoulder. By the time I got the rifle off, the elk was gone. It was a good lesson, on what not to do next time.

Slings are to rifles like a holster is to handguns. Also, it isn't a sling like to carry over your shoulder. It allows you to carry your rifle in more of a sul position and drop it to transition to your handgun or to go hands on.

300yrds for a red dot? I'm good out to nearly 500 with mine. I can turn down the intensity of the recital, get prone and put it in a man sized target (and I'm not that good compared to many others).

Here's one of me during some training last year. I dropped my rifle on the sling and transitioned to meet the requirements of that training scenario (limited rifle ammo, transition when out). You can see the sling working there:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ATQbMg1xDFQ/TkymDNS5OJI/AAAAAAAAEo8/amqcFWuSijE/s640/DSC_0347-ForWeb.jpg

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[1969912 0]

Magpul ACS stock should be here next week. Free shipping from Primary Arms. Still need a milspec receiver extension assy. Got a (borrowed) holding/drilling fixture for my Colfax Tactical 80% lower in the mail today. Will use a friends Bridgeport mill to finish the machining this weekend. A couple hours max. 80 (or whatever) % lowers are not worth the trouble - just buy a stripped lower through an FFL. I got my 80% lower for free, so the decision was pretty much made. I guess one plus about the unfinished lowers is that there's no .fed paperwork trail. Still not worth the hassle of machining the thing IMHO.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[DaVinci 0]

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That red dot scope sounds good, but I hate the thought of a gun that needs batteries. My son in law mentioned flip up sights. Are they worth having? Do they flip up above the red dot scope?

Don't be afraid of the battery issue. I'd bet that the battery lasts longer than you will need it. And flip up sights are a must just in case the optic dies.

All of my optic AR's have flip up rear sights that co-witness with the red dots.

[steve1 5]

I'm still wondering about barrel length. Wouldn't the shorter barrels have more muzzle flash, along with less velocity? (If you had standard factory ammo)...

I would imagine that a 22 inch barrel with a flash suppressor would be just too long. I might go with an 18 or 20 inch barrel. My son in law has a 16 inch barrel on his.

I imagine that there are better flash suppressors on the market, than they had in the 70's. I would imagine that muzzle flash is something a bad guy would shoot at, in the dark, in a combat situation.

I've talked with a couple guys who went through a permit process and had a silencer put on their AR. It still sounds about like a 22, but is much quieter than normal.

Thanks for the info. on this. I'm learning a lot.

I think I'll try one of those red dot scopes along with flip up sights.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

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I'm still wondering about barrel length. Wouldn't the shorter barrels have more muzzle flash, along with less velocity? (If you had standard factory ammo)...

I would imagine that a 22 inch barrel with a flash suppressor would be just too long. I might go with an 18 or 20 inch barrel. My son in law has a 16 inch barrel on his.

I imagine that there are better flash suppressors on the market, than they had in the 70's. I would imagine that muzzle flash is something a bad guy would shoot at, in the dark, in a combat situation.

I've talked with a couple guys who went through a permit process and had a silencer put on their AR. It still sounds about like a 22, but is much quieter than normal.

Thanks for the info. on this. I'm learning a lot.

I think I'll try one of those red dot scopes along with flip up sights.

The flash suppressors haven't really changed over the years. The normal AR flash hider (still the old "birdcage" design) is only an inch or so long. And yes, a 16 has more flash and bang than a 20 and even more so than a 22 or 24. Unless you plan on varmit hunting or other sorts of very precise, very long range shooting, choose how long you want to deal with moving or carrying it.

And they don't hide the flash much. The bad guys will still be able to spot you at night (and even to a certain extent during the day). What they primarily do is direct it away from the shooter so that the worst of the noise and muzzle blast are not as bad. One of the worst consequences of the "Assault Weapons" ban of 94 was 223 rifles (ARs and others) with no "flash hider" on them. They weren't any louder than before, nor any "brighter", but they were a lot less pleasant to be next to.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rrmtopo 1]

Flash hider improvements, and this is from 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TPpsIw7IwE

[JohnRich 4]

Someone asked me an AR question by private message, and I thought I would share that and my answer here, for anyone interested, since we're talking about AR rifles.

Question:

I was wondering if there is an AR-15, brand name, that you prefer. I was also wondering about barrel length, triggers, and sights. Are those red dot scopes worth getting for closer range shooting? I imagine that flip up sights would be needed to with that type of scope...

Answer:

I have a Colt, but I've seen other brands perform flawlessly too, so I'm not sure that matters.

What I'm wary of is people that mix and match parts to build their own. I've seen cases where parts from different manufacturers don't work well together, even though they're all supposed to be built to the same specs. In trying to save a few bucks, you can get yourself a gun that isn't reliable.

I have a 20" barrel, and it's good out to 600 yards. Shorter barrels are preferred by the tactical guys, but that limits your distance shooting. You also might want an "Hbar" or heavy barrel, which has a thicker diameter, and helps prevent warping from heat buildup.

For long range shooting, you also want a fast twist rate in the rifling, like 1-in-7, which means one full revolution every 7" of barrel length. This is necessary to stabilize heavier bullets. The 55-grain bullets are standard, and work well in 1/12 or 1/10 twists. To use 69-gr or 77-gr you need that 1/7 twist. And 55-grain bullets just blow around too much in wind at long ranges.

I participate in a competition called "high-power rifle", and the rules there limit triggers to no lighter than 4.5 lbs. That works fine for me. There are aftermarket triggers that drop in without specialized skills, and they are smoother than some standard manufacturer triggers.

I just use iron sights. They're simple and reliable - nothing ever goes wrong with them. Lots of folks use fancy sight systems, but they're constantly fiddling with them, and things often go wrong. Some of those are specialized for target shooting, where you're always aiming at a black dot. One has an adjustable size rear aperture, and an adjustable size front ring, so that your sight picture has two concentric rings surrounding the black bulls-eye. That's a good system for black dots, but maybe not for hunting, as the field of view is very limited. I don't know anything about the fancy red dot or holographic optics, and have not used them. My understanding is that the dot cannot be made small enough for accurate long range shooting. Find out how many minutes-of-angle (moa) the dot is before buying. If the bulls-eye is a 4-moa dot, and the red-dot is 5-moa, then that doesn't help much, because you can't center the red dot inside the bulls-eye.

Having back-up iron sights to the fancy optics is a good idea. Some scope mounts have a channel underneath them that allows the factory iron sights to still be used even with the scope mounted. That way when the optics fog up or the batteries go dead, you're still in the game.

For target shooting, it's also nice to have a free-floated front end, so that the sling attachment point at the front sight assembly is not pulling on the barrel at that point. That interferes with the harmonics of the barrel and negatively affects accuracy. I don't know if any manufacturers make them that way though. I believe that's mostly an aftermarket modification. But it it's an option, I would get it.

The AR-15's are very popular these days: they're accurate, reliable, have light recoil, and are cheap to shoot. And there are tons of ways to customize them. It's a great rifle, and you can't help but love it.