weekender 0 #101 November 2, 2011 >FORCED big banks to bet against their own investors I'm singling that out to help you and others understand that shorting a security in a principal transaction is not illegal or unethical no matter the rating. This confuses alot of people who dont understand securities trading. No has been charged nor will ever be charged with a crime for this. There are multiple divisions in a bank. Research and Trading are seperate. If research believes a security is a Buy, they rate it and market it as so. Trading doesnt care about ratings. they provide liquitidy only. not advice. Customers want to buy something call the trading desk. Traders do not "market" the security. they "sell" it, in other words transact it. it can be as principle, their own position either long or short. Or they can act as an agent and just buy it somewhere else and mark it up. All day long all over the word this is occuring and will never stop occuring. the reason is the customer is asking for liquidity only. he has already decided to purchase the security. he does not care if the trader makes or loses money on the transaction. They do lose money, fyi. thats why they are paid based on their Profit and Loss. So no one, except for people who don't understand the financial markets care that GS shorted against a Buy rating. Its a normal business practice and how securities trade. Its happening right now in every security on every exchange and OTC market in the entire world. i could also explain the difference between the market making desk and the proprietary desk if i have not completely confused everyone and anyone cares. similiar rules but different jobs."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #102 November 2, 2011 Quote>FORCED big banks to bet against their own investors I'm singling that out to help you and others understand that shorting a security in a principal transaction is not illegal or unethical no matter the rating.. No confusion. If it were illegal there would be a lot of bankers in prison. Unethical is a matter of opinion. I'm inclined to agree with arch conservative Charles Krauthammer, who wrote: " I would be for an exemplary hanging or two. Have it in Times Square, invite Madame Defarge. You borrow a guillotine from the French and we could have a party."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #103 November 2, 2011 QuoteQuote>FORCED big banks to bet against their own investors I'm singling that out to help you and others understand that shorting a security in a principal transaction is not illegal or unethical no matter the rating.. No confusion. If it were illegal there would be a lot of bankers in prison. Unethical is a matter of opinion. I'm inclined to agree with arch conservative Charles Krauthammer, who wrote: " I would be for an exemplary hanging or two. Have it in Times Square, invite Madame Defarge. You borrow a guillotine from the French and we could have a party." I don't know the context of this quote and don't care. I would agree that criminals should be prosecuted. all honest people do."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #104 November 2, 2011 >Unethical is a matter of opinion. in the financial industry it is not a matter of opinion. You can have an ethical violation and lose your job and license. Finra is a private organization as is the CTFC and NYSE etc.. You must adhere to their standards or cannot work in the industry. That is why i mentioned it. im not trying to be pedantic or argumentative. I menioned ethics for a reason and want you to undertand my point."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #105 November 2, 2011 This is not hard, not a secret. Franklin Raines forced banks to give sucker home loans out. You can say the evil banks did it, but when the Feds order you to do it, you must comply or they will harass you, badly !!! very badly !! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #106 November 2, 2011 QuoteBut not holding my breath because I know you can't answer any of them honestly. It's already been explained, several times...your inability to grasp the concept is not my problem, perfesser. (fyi - YOU mentioning honest answers given YOUR history is absolutely HILARIOUS)Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #107 November 2, 2011 Banks and bankers were FORCED to make loans that were shaky at best Why? Because the gov was forcing them to !!! Banks cannot survive by giving money away which was what they were essentially being FORCED to do. They were then forced, if they wanted to stay in business, come up with mechanisms that would eliminate or reduce the debt and risk they were being FORCED to assume The other nuances in this can be debated and argued at infinitum, but none of those change the facts above. This mess is your beloved govs fault The gov had some help but that does not change what I stated above. Now we all look forward to your redirecting of the blame, away from the gov, so it, big gov, can continue to protect Big Education and it’s escalating costs"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #108 November 2, 2011 Nonsense. NINJA loans were the invention of the financial services industry without any help from the government.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #109 November 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteBut not holding my breath because I know you can't answer any of them honestly. It's already been explained, several times...your inability to grasp the concept is not my problem, perfesser. So you can't answer any of them honestly. Understood.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #110 November 2, 2011 Quote This is not hard, not a secret. Franklin Raines forced banks to give sucker home loans out. You can say the evil banks did it, but when the Feds order you to do it, you must comply or they will harass you, badly !!! very badly !! Please tell us which acts of government: FORCED financial institutions to invent NINJA loans FORCED financial institutions to leverage at > 30:1 FORCED financial institutions to invent CDSs FORCED big banks to bet against their own investors FORCED big banks to defraud their investors FORCED ratings firms to give AAA ratings to junk in exchange for big fees from the banks FORCED financial institutions to pay huge bonuses from taxpayer bailout money to the very execs that drove them into bankruptcy.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #111 November 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteBut not holding my breath because I know you can't answer any of them honestly. It's already been explained, several times...your inability to grasp the concept is not my problem, perfesser. So you can't answer any of them honestly. Understood. Where were all the NINJA loans BEFORE CRA?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #112 November 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBut not holding my breath because I know you can't answer any of them honestly. It's already been explained, several times...your inability to grasp the concept is not my problem, perfesser. So you can't answer any of them honestly. Understood. Your 'argument' doesn't get any less lame the more times you bring it up, perfesser. Maybe you can explain to us how there HAD to be a law to force those things to happen rather than market forces. I'm not the one claiming the government is responsible. You and rushmc are. "the CRA was not a significant factor in subprime lending or the crisis. Many subprime lenders were not subject to the CRA. Research indicates only 6% of high-cost loans—a proxy for subprime loans—had any connection to the law. Loans made by CRA-regulated lenders in the neighborhoods in which they were required to lend were half as likely to default as similar loans made in the same neighborhoods by independent mortgage originators not subject to the law."; Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, January 2011... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #113 November 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBut not holding my breath because I know you can't answer any of them honestly. It's already been explained, several times...your inability to grasp the concept is not my problem, perfesser. So you can't answer any of them honestly. Understood. Your 'argument' doesn't get any less lame the more times you bring it up, perfesser. Maybe you can explain to us how there HAD to be a law to force those things to happen rather than market forces. I'm not the one claiming the government is responsible. You and rushmc are. "the CRA was not a significant factor in subprime lending or the crisis. Many subprime lenders were not subject to the CRA. Research indicates only 6% of high-cost loans—a proxy for subprime loans—had any connection to the law. Loans made by CRA-regulated lenders in the neighborhoods in which they were required to lend were half as likely to default as similar loans made in the same neighborhoods by independent mortgage originators not subject to the law."; Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, January 2011 Lame. CRA forced the change of underwriting rules.... where were the NINJA loans before then, perfesser? For that matter, maybe you can show us how the banks caused all the foreclosures.... oh, wait... the foreclosures started BEFORE the banks started collapsing.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #114 November 2, 2011 So you can't honestly address a single one of those questions - all we get from you is distraction and diversion. The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission is a rather more credible source than you are.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #115 November 2, 2011 QuoteSo you can't honestly address a single one of those questions - all we get from you is distraction and diversion. The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission is a rather more credible source than you are. And the FCIC auditor report I've snipped info out of is FAR more credible than you. Make sure to let us know when the commission explains how the banks caused those foreclosures, perfesser.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #116 November 2, 2011 Quote Make sure you let us know how the government caused foreclosures on mortgages that weren't subject to government regulation. And once again since no doubt you'll try to throw more dust in the air, non regulated subprime loans failed at a far greater rate than regulated CRA loans. "Loans made by CRA-regulated lenders in the neighborhoods in which they were required to lend were half as likely to default as similar loans made in the same neighborhoods by independent mortgage originators not subject to the law."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #117 November 2, 2011 Lamer and lamer....where's the NINJA loans before CRA, perfesser?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,466 #118 November 2, 2011 >>Banks and bankers were FORCED to make loans that were shaky at best Why? >Because the gov was forcing them to !!! This mess is your beloved govs fault So the shaky loans made from 2000 to 2008 - the loans that resulted in the MBS collapse - were the government's fault? Why, I do believe that's the first "blame Bush" post I have seen you make! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #119 November 2, 2011 Quote>>Banks and bankers were FORCED to make loans that were shaky at best Why? >Because the gov was forcing them to !!! This mess is your beloved govs fault So the shaky loans made from 2000 to 2008 - the loans that resulted in the MBS collapse - were the government's fault? Why, I do believe that's the first "blame Bush" post I have seen you make! And how did Bush influence policies in place by 2000 when he didn't become President until 2001, pray tell?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #120 November 2, 2011 Quote>>Banks and bankers were FORCED to make loans that were shaky at best Why? >Because the gov was forcing them to !!! This mess is your beloved govs fault So the shaky loans made from 2000 to 2008 - the loans that resulted in the MBS collapse - were the government's fault? Why, I do believe that's the first "blame Bush" post I have seen you make! You dont But your Twister 101 teaching has gotten the better of you again But you know that How honest of you"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #121 November 3, 2011 QuoteQuote>>Banks and bankers were FORCED to make loans that were shaky at best Why? >Because the gov was forcing them to !!! This mess is your beloved govs fault So the shaky loans made from 2000 to 2008 - the loans that resulted in the MBS collapse - were the government's fault? Why, I do believe that's the first "blame Bush" post I have seen you make! And how did Bush influence policies in place by 2000 when he didn't become President until 2001, pray tell? Started before then Carter gets the thanks for that Clinton doubled down on it Caught up with us Bush tried to rein it it A bunch of Dems said there was no problem Guess they were wrong"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,672 #122 November 3, 2011 QuoteLamer and lamer....where's the NINJA loans before CRA, perfesser? Same place they were before the Declaration of Independence. Wanna blame that? You could try blaming the Moon landings too, they came before NINJA loans too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #123 November 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteLamer and lamer....where's the NINJA loans before CRA, perfesser? Same place they were before the Declaration of Independence. Wanna blame that? You could try blaming the Moon landings too, they came before NINJA loans too. So, you've got no argument? That was apparent to the rest of us, too.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,672 #124 November 3, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Lamer and lamer....where's the NINJA loans before CRA, perfesser? Same place they were before the Declaration of Independence. Wanna blame that? You could try blaming the Moon landings too, they came before NINJA loans too. So, you've got no argument? That was apparent to the rest of us, too. Just highlighting the increasing stupidity of your position, which shows that you haven't got anything to show that govt. action forced the financial services industry to wreck the economy leading to tens of millions of people losing their life savings and jobsYour arguments (Post hoc ergo propter hoc ) are as bankrupt as Lehman Bros.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #125 November 3, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Lamer and lamer....where's the NINJA loans before CRA, perfesser? Same place they were before the Declaration of Independence. Wanna blame that? You could try blaming the Moon landings too, they came before NINJA loans too. So, you've got no argument? That was apparent to the rest of us, too. Just highlighting the increasing stupidity of your position, Unlike yours, of course, which blames the bank collapse for the bankruptcies that caused the banks to collapse. Great circular logic you've got going on there, perfesser. Quote which shows that you haven't got anything to show that govt. action forced the financial services industry to wreck the economy leading to tens of millions of people losing their life savings and jobs Just because you refuse to accept anything other than "it's all those greedy bank's fault" doesn't make the information that I've already given untrue.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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mnealtx 0 #117 November 2, 2011 Lamer and lamer....where's the NINJA loans before CRA, perfesser?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,466 #118 November 2, 2011 >>Banks and bankers were FORCED to make loans that were shaky at best Why? >Because the gov was forcing them to !!! This mess is your beloved govs fault So the shaky loans made from 2000 to 2008 - the loans that resulted in the MBS collapse - were the government's fault? Why, I do believe that's the first "blame Bush" post I have seen you make! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #119 November 2, 2011 Quote>>Banks and bankers were FORCED to make loans that were shaky at best Why? >Because the gov was forcing them to !!! This mess is your beloved govs fault So the shaky loans made from 2000 to 2008 - the loans that resulted in the MBS collapse - were the government's fault? Why, I do believe that's the first "blame Bush" post I have seen you make! And how did Bush influence policies in place by 2000 when he didn't become President until 2001, pray tell?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #120 November 2, 2011 Quote>>Banks and bankers were FORCED to make loans that were shaky at best Why? >Because the gov was forcing them to !!! This mess is your beloved govs fault So the shaky loans made from 2000 to 2008 - the loans that resulted in the MBS collapse - were the government's fault? Why, I do believe that's the first "blame Bush" post I have seen you make! You dont But your Twister 101 teaching has gotten the better of you again But you know that How honest of you"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #121 November 3, 2011 QuoteQuote>>Banks and bankers were FORCED to make loans that were shaky at best Why? >Because the gov was forcing them to !!! This mess is your beloved govs fault So the shaky loans made from 2000 to 2008 - the loans that resulted in the MBS collapse - were the government's fault? Why, I do believe that's the first "blame Bush" post I have seen you make! And how did Bush influence policies in place by 2000 when he didn't become President until 2001, pray tell? Started before then Carter gets the thanks for that Clinton doubled down on it Caught up with us Bush tried to rein it it A bunch of Dems said there was no problem Guess they were wrong"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #122 November 3, 2011 QuoteLamer and lamer....where's the NINJA loans before CRA, perfesser? Same place they were before the Declaration of Independence. Wanna blame that? You could try blaming the Moon landings too, they came before NINJA loans too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #123 November 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteLamer and lamer....where's the NINJA loans before CRA, perfesser? Same place they were before the Declaration of Independence. Wanna blame that? You could try blaming the Moon landings too, they came before NINJA loans too. So, you've got no argument? That was apparent to the rest of us, too.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #124 November 3, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Lamer and lamer....where's the NINJA loans before CRA, perfesser? Same place they were before the Declaration of Independence. Wanna blame that? You could try blaming the Moon landings too, they came before NINJA loans too. So, you've got no argument? That was apparent to the rest of us, too. Just highlighting the increasing stupidity of your position, which shows that you haven't got anything to show that govt. action forced the financial services industry to wreck the economy leading to tens of millions of people losing their life savings and jobsYour arguments (Post hoc ergo propter hoc ) are as bankrupt as Lehman Bros.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #125 November 3, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Lamer and lamer....where's the NINJA loans before CRA, perfesser? Same place they were before the Declaration of Independence. Wanna blame that? You could try blaming the Moon landings too, they came before NINJA loans too. So, you've got no argument? That was apparent to the rest of us, too. Just highlighting the increasing stupidity of your position, Unlike yours, of course, which blames the bank collapse for the bankruptcies that caused the banks to collapse. Great circular logic you've got going on there, perfesser. Quote which shows that you haven't got anything to show that govt. action forced the financial services industry to wreck the economy leading to tens of millions of people losing their life savings and jobs Just because you refuse to accept anything other than "it's all those greedy bank's fault" doesn't make the information that I've already given untrue.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
