kallend 1,853 #51 October 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote But if the Gov had not pushed lenders in the first place, the slide would not have happened the way it did. And it may not have happened at all The MBS market place was very stable for decades prior to CRA enforcement. That, in the opinion of many (myself included) is the root of the rot that has occurred. Yes it was but the gov started to double down on CRA during the Clinton years They even had the different Depts threatening banks about ratings and how mergers would be treated if they did not toe the line Doesn't help your case that CRA loans were not the biggest defaulters by far. Convenient right wing scapegoat, though. CRA did not force AIG (and other Wall St institutions) to invent absurd financial instruments, for example.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #52 October 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote But if the Gov had not pushed lenders in the first place, the slide would not have happened the way it did. And it may not have happened at all The MBS market place was very stable for decades prior to CRA enforcement. That, in the opinion of many (myself included) is the root of the rot that has occurred. Yes it was but the gov started to double down on CRA during the Clinton years They even had the different Depts threatening banks about ratings and how mergers would be treated if they did not toe the line Doesn't help your case that CRA loans were not the biggest defaulters by far. Convenient right wing scapegoat, though. CRA did not force AIG (and other Wall St institutions) to invent absurd financial instruments, for example. Force? No Encourage? Yes"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #53 October 13, 2011 Quote>I get to choose annuity or mutual fund. Don't get to choose which annuity >or which mutual fund, or what they invest in. Exactly. And you can choose to not invest at all. . Wrong. Participation in the plan is mandatory for all FT employees. Or are you suggesting I should have quit my job?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #54 October 13, 2011 >Wrong. Participation in the plan is mandatory for all FT employees. Or are >you suggesting I should have quit my job? If you cannot make any changes to change what you are investing in (which you suggested was NOT the case) - then yes, that would be your last recourse. But again, I am not saying that's a good idea. It's just a small almost-involuntary decision on your part that led to the problems we're having. I made a similar mistake through my mutual fund that had MBSes in it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfritz 0 #55 October 13, 2011 Quote>Lots of blame to go around. Definitely. Was it the Financial Services Modernization Act? Fannie Mae? Evil banks? Stupid homeowners? Flippers? To some degree, yes to all. FSMA allowed banks to do stupid stuff in secret. Fannie Mae encouraged foolish homeowners to get loans they couldn't pay back. Flippers, encouraged by early successes, went to riskier and riskier investments. Homeowners drank the kool-aid and got tremendous ARMs they could barely afford even when interest rates were low. Then, when interest rates twitched and the first few homeowners defaulted on their loans, the landslide began. In other words, who is to blame? All of us. I have never taken a bank loan . I haven't invested in MBS or CDS. I haven't flipped houses or ever owned a home. My stats are the same as 73% of the Black population and 38% of the white population. " All of us " aren't to blame. It's you rich folk are to blame. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #56 October 13, 2011 >It's you rich folk are to blame. Well, I guess the important thing is that you have someone to blame. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bertt 0 #57 October 13, 2011 News flash - looks like the wall street occupiers have it right. At least, that's the opinion of one very influential pundit. The following exchange took place in the 2008 vice-presidential debate: Gwen Ifill: Who do you think was at fault? I start with you, Gov. Palin. Was it the greedy lenders? Was it the risky home-buyers who shouldn’t have been buying a home in the first place? And what should you be doing about it? PALIN: Darn right it was the predator lenders, who tried to talk Americans into thinking that it was smart to buy a $300,000 house if we could only afford a $100,000 house. There was deception there, and there was greed and there is corruption on Wall Street. And we need to stop that. Sarah Palin didn't work for Enron, and she doesn't have a Nobel prize, so I think we can take her word as gospel.You don't have to outrun the bear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfritz 0 #58 October 13, 2011 Quote>It's you rich folk are to blame. ***Well, I guess the important thing is that you have someone to blame. The important thing is that the message gets out and the common people wake up. It aint their fault that they are struggling and they will never be rich as long as the status quo is allowed to continue. The guy making the fries at McDonalds did not cause nor benefit from the economic meltdown regardless of how you might like to place the blame on "all of us". The deck is rigged. The cards are marked . Elections are an illusion where we can pick one rich guy or another rich guy. Guess what!!! They are gonna make laws which favour rich guys! They spit out some drivel about raising taxes on the rich and debate on and on and on about it but it ain't ever gonna happen folks! It ain't ever gonna happen because it's the rich voting on it! It ain't you . It ain't me. Congress , the president, the Supreme Court are all rich guys and they make laws and develop policies to benefit the rich. The wars and all other foreign policy.., do you think those are to benefit the common man? Hell no!!! They benefit the rich! The bailout and the stimulus bill which polls showed the vast majority of the American people were against but Congress passed and the Presidents signed anyway, were they for the benefit of the common man or the super rich? Face it !!! The rich and the corporations decide who we can vote for in each election. The corporations own Congress . They own the media. Washington is constantly throwing a party for rich men and you and I ain't on the guest list. You and I ain't invited. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #59 October 14, 2011 >The important thing is that the message gets out and the common people wake up. 62% of Americans own their own home. Most of them have mortgages. 54% invest in the stock market. 73% are saving for retirement. The "common people" ARE the people who invested in sometimes-risky markets. They ARE the people who own the mortgages that became such a bad investment. They ARE the people who have their retirements invested in mutual funds. They ARE the people who drive our consumer-centric economy. In other words, they ARE the economy, and they ARE the stock market. There are also a minority who do not save, do not invest in the stock market, cannot afford their own homes and who can do no better than "making the fries at McDonalds." They are fortunately in the minority. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfritz 0 #60 October 14, 2011 Quote>The important thing is that the message gets out and the common people wake up. ***62% of Americans own their own home. Most of them have mortgages.Quote Uhmm .., Bill.., Psst.., Let me whisper this so no one else hears..,I don't want to embarrass you! If they have mortgages they don't own their homes! The banks own them and it is the banks that have the power to manipulate the value of our currency . How the banks gained this privelage to manipulate the value of our currency is a mystery to me as the Constitution states that Congress alone has the Duty to coin money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casurf1978 0 #61 October 14, 2011 Watch the movie Inside Job, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1645089/. It's not as simple as this article makes it seem. Barnie Frank is one of the few politicians who wants to regulate the $600 trillion dollar derivatives market. After the whole meltdown of 2008 do you really trust wall street to regulate itself. We're not talking about billions anymore, more like trillions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,772 #62 October 14, 2011 >If they have mortgages they don't own their homes! Hmm. And yet the government, the media, even people here refer to them as "homeowners." >How the banks gained this privelage to manipulate the value of our >currency is a mystery to me Easy. We gave it to them. They have no power without us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #63 October 14, 2011 Quote Doesn't help your case that CRA loans were not the biggest defaulters by far. At the height of the boom, Congress was requiring over 50% of GSE loans purchased/originated to be CRA compliant (see the FCIC report). These loans had the highest default rates, by far. The only way the GSEs could meet that requirement was to support a market for wacky bonds (e.g. option ARMs). As soon as there was a dip in home prices, this was bound to collapse. Quote CRA did not force AIG (and other Wall St institutions) to invent absurd financial instruments, for example. Agreed, and absurd they were (e.g. CDOs). There was an explosion of insurance related products/securities for MBS bonds that flooded that market. Worse, people levered these 20-1 in some cases. The underwriters (e.g., AIG) thought they'd collect premiums forever with no down side. Boy were they wrong. When the chickens came home to roost, they owed up to 20 times what was actually being insured. This greatly exacerbated the problem. Bottom line, those insurers went bust. I think one of the simplest reforms the government could have enacted was a rule limiting leverage. Glass-Steagall had Reg T, which limits stock leverage to 2-1. Right now, the government allows you to leverage govt bond purchases 10-1. That should be the maximum allowable leverage, and even that seems a bit high to me. All this leverage does, in the best case, is massively inflate the amount of "money" in the market, with nothing of any real value backing it.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #64 October 14, 2011 Quote The important thing is that the message gets out and the common people wake up. The "message" is already out there for anyone willing to look. Our society requires/needs people who are informed and involved. That's already there for anyone who chooses to do so. It takes alot of effort. Quote The guy making the fries at McDonalds did not cause nor benefit from the economic meltdown regardless of how you might like to place the blame on "all of us". Bottom line, the guy making fries at McDonald's has made his choice. There is nothing in our society that keeps him from going out and starting his own company, or bettering his situation by a variety of other methods. Quote The deck is rigged. The cards are marked . Only for those who are uninformed, and choose to remain that way. Quote Elections are an illusion where we can pick one rich guy or another rich guy. Then do something about it. Right now, I'm actively involved in Westchester County's district board elections. I'm sick of Democrats spending my money. Is this going to be a struggle? Damn right. This county is chock full of well intentioned rich people who don't pay attention to local politics. They vote Democratic because they're compassionate, and it makes them feel good about themselves. Then, there is another entire demographic that lives off that charity, and votes Democratic. The Democratic leaders do not tell what's going on, and the local papers are in their pockets. The only people who follow politics here are the public service unions, and they are very active. Right now, they have some of the best contracts in the country, and the county can no longer afford to pay for basic government services. Very frustrating, and frightening if I think about it too much. Quote It ain't ever gonna happen because it's the rich voting on it! It ain't you . It ain't me. As Richard Bach said, "Argue for your limitations, and they're yours to keep". Go do something about it. Quote Face it !!! The rich and the corporations decide who we can vote for in each election. They definitely provide momentum, but they do not have final say. All you have to do is get involved, and stay involved.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #65 October 14, 2011 Quote Easy. We gave it to them. +1We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #66 October 14, 2011 Quote Barnie Frank is one of the few politicians who wants to regulate the $600 trillion dollar derivatives market. After the whole meltdown of 2008 do you really trust wall street to regulate itself. We're not talking about billions anymore, more like trillions. Do you know what a derivative is? In simple terms, it's an insurance policy. The $600 trillion you're referring to is the sum total of all buys and sells in future dollars. The way those markets are expected to work, if there's a problem with a counterparty, all trades are netted and the remainder is sold for pennies on the dollar. One of the most fundamental practices in the financial industry is managing counterparty risk. Is the guy I'm doing trades with going to be in business tomorrow? If he's not, then don't do business with him. If you do trades with him, and he goes out of business, then you're SOL, and you fail too. If you can't manage that risk, don't get in the business. It's a real, and recurring, risk. Do you know what a qualified investor is? It's a legal term, and it says you're a big boy who can take care of yourself in the financial markets. You can only play in these markets if you're a qualified investor. Do not go whining if you lose. Guaranteed you're not going to be whining when you win. Barnie Frank is a clear and present danger. He, and his ilk, want to make decisions for those in our society who won't make decisions for themselves. That's not how our system works. Dodd-Frank is a disaster in the making. The very person who is at the root of the subprime crisis is continuing to make rules that make no sense.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #67 October 14, 2011 Quote Gwen Ifill: Who do you think was at fault? I start with you, Gov. Palin. Was it the greedy lenders? Was it the risky home-buyers who shouldn’t have been buying a home in the first place? And what should you be doing about it? This is a bit of a simplistic view. The system rotted because no one thought they faced accountability: not market accountability, nor government accountability. Who removed market accountability? Bottom line, the government.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casurf1978 0 #68 October 15, 2011 Yes, I do know what derivatives are. You try to make it seem very simple and they're not. I also do know what an accredited investor is. I worked in the IB industry for over 5 years and it's not as simple as you make it seem. Coming from that industry IMO if there would've been some regulation we wouldn't be in this mess. It amazes me how some people think that all this mess can be blamed on one person. Did you know the credit rating agencies made BILLIONS issuing BS ratings to CDOs and MBS. If you issued CDOs or MBS you literally shopped around for your rating. You didn't like what S&P gave you , well then go to Moodys and pay them for the AAA. In laymans terms if you had a 380 credit score you shopped around till you got a 800+. Coming from that industry I say regulate the crap out of it. Why is it that none of the execs from AIG, Lehmans, Goldman, S&P, Moodys, ever faced any jail time. These guys knew what they were doing and knew they were selling crap. Why is it that Lehamns was rated AAA till hours before it filed BK? What's even worse is that now you have these executives teaching at business schools. Teaching the next generation how to swindle billions. I'm all for capitalism, but what these guys did is beyond criminal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfritz 0 #69 October 15, 2011 *** What's even worse is that now you have these executives teaching at business schools. Teaching the next generation how to swindle billions. Quote No! What is worse is that one of those is now the Secretary of Treasury! http://dailybail.com/home/must-see-i-am-not-moving.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #70 October 15, 2011 Quote You try to make it seem very simple and they're not. Yes, I do try and keep these discussions simple, because most people can't relate to it otherwise. I've been in the industry for 17 years now (secondary market for passthroughs, mainly) , and I do appreciate the complexities. Quote Coming from that industry IMO if there would've been some regulation we wouldn't be in this mess. Repealing Glass-Steagall was a mistake, IMO. Quote It amazes me how some people think that all this mess can be blamed on one person. I hope I haven't sounded like that. There is lots of blame to go around. Quote Did you know the credit rating agencies made BILLIONS issuing BS ratings to CDOs and MBS. If you issued CDOs or MBS you literally shopped around for your rating. You didn't like what S&P gave you , well then go to Moodys and pay them for the AAA. In laymans terms if you had a 380 credit score you shopped around till you got a 800+. Yes, I'm aware of this. The SROs were the last firewall in this mess, and they failed miserably because the dealers had them in their pockets. Anyone rating a CDO AAA should have immediately lost their "prudent man" license. I would agree there was willful neglect and failure to meet their fiduciary requirements. Quote Why is it that none of the execs from AIG, Lehmans, Goldman, S&P, Moodys, ever faced any jail time. These guys knew what they were doing and knew they were selling crap. These guys were making a market that the government wanted made, bottom line. Otherwise, that market never would have been there. I agree they knew what was going on re: crappy paper, and they were pretty sleazy, but I don't see how someone can claim they're criminally liable. Not to say they weren't, I just haven't heard a valid case for that, in my mind.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfritz 0 #71 October 15, 2011 ***These guys were making a market that the government wanted made, bottom line. Quote And education sucks because that's what government wants! They don't want thinking individuals. They want people who are just educated enough to run the machines and file the paperwork. Government, the corpocracy, doesn't want people who can think for themselves! Take a break. Relax!!! Have some Gatorade. It s got electrolites!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #72 October 15, 2011 Had to fire up another sock puppet, treetop?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfritz 0 #73 October 15, 2011 QuoteHad to fire up another sock puppet, treetop? I didn't "have to" Neal. No one was holding a gun to my head just this moment. No, I chose to! LOL! So while I have your attention Neal do tell me; Do you expect that you will at some point in time become one of the 1% or will you always be among the 99%? Peace. "Treetop" aka LORD OF THE SKY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #74 October 15, 2011 SURE, you "chose" to...had NOTHING to do with your last one getting the axe, I'm sure.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfritz 0 #75 October 15, 2011 QuoteSURE, you "chose" to...had NOTHING to do with your last one getting the axe, I'm sure. Well of course the last one was axed! And that is why I "chose to". Like I said no one put a gun to my head. It was my decision to come back to this forum. I figured I owed the skydiving community the wisdom they have missed the last few years. A diet of Bilvon and Quade would leave anyone intelligently stunted ! No worries!!! I am here for all of you!!! "Treetop" aka, LORD OF THE SKY PS!!! I was rotflmol reading somewhere where the speculation was that I was Dream Dancer or Lucky! Aren't they chicks?? Do I come across like a chick? I'm starting to doubt my own masculinity based on the opinion of Dropzone .com participants. Please could I get just one "You the Man" for old times sake? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Casurf1978 0 #61 October 14, 2011 Watch the movie Inside Job, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1645089/. It's not as simple as this article makes it seem. Barnie Frank is one of the few politicians who wants to regulate the $600 trillion dollar derivatives market. After the whole meltdown of 2008 do you really trust wall street to regulate itself. We're not talking about billions anymore, more like trillions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #62 October 14, 2011 >If they have mortgages they don't own their homes! Hmm. And yet the government, the media, even people here refer to them as "homeowners." >How the banks gained this privelage to manipulate the value of our >currency is a mystery to me Easy. We gave it to them. They have no power without us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #63 October 14, 2011 Quote Doesn't help your case that CRA loans were not the biggest defaulters by far. At the height of the boom, Congress was requiring over 50% of GSE loans purchased/originated to be CRA compliant (see the FCIC report). These loans had the highest default rates, by far. The only way the GSEs could meet that requirement was to support a market for wacky bonds (e.g. option ARMs). As soon as there was a dip in home prices, this was bound to collapse. Quote CRA did not force AIG (and other Wall St institutions) to invent absurd financial instruments, for example. Agreed, and absurd they were (e.g. CDOs). There was an explosion of insurance related products/securities for MBS bonds that flooded that market. Worse, people levered these 20-1 in some cases. The underwriters (e.g., AIG) thought they'd collect premiums forever with no down side. Boy were they wrong. When the chickens came home to roost, they owed up to 20 times what was actually being insured. This greatly exacerbated the problem. Bottom line, those insurers went bust. I think one of the simplest reforms the government could have enacted was a rule limiting leverage. Glass-Steagall had Reg T, which limits stock leverage to 2-1. Right now, the government allows you to leverage govt bond purchases 10-1. That should be the maximum allowable leverage, and even that seems a bit high to me. All this leverage does, in the best case, is massively inflate the amount of "money" in the market, with nothing of any real value backing it.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #64 October 14, 2011 Quote The important thing is that the message gets out and the common people wake up. The "message" is already out there for anyone willing to look. Our society requires/needs people who are informed and involved. That's already there for anyone who chooses to do so. It takes alot of effort. Quote The guy making the fries at McDonalds did not cause nor benefit from the economic meltdown regardless of how you might like to place the blame on "all of us". Bottom line, the guy making fries at McDonald's has made his choice. There is nothing in our society that keeps him from going out and starting his own company, or bettering his situation by a variety of other methods. Quote The deck is rigged. The cards are marked . Only for those who are uninformed, and choose to remain that way. Quote Elections are an illusion where we can pick one rich guy or another rich guy. Then do something about it. Right now, I'm actively involved in Westchester County's district board elections. I'm sick of Democrats spending my money. Is this going to be a struggle? Damn right. This county is chock full of well intentioned rich people who don't pay attention to local politics. They vote Democratic because they're compassionate, and it makes them feel good about themselves. Then, there is another entire demographic that lives off that charity, and votes Democratic. The Democratic leaders do not tell what's going on, and the local papers are in their pockets. The only people who follow politics here are the public service unions, and they are very active. Right now, they have some of the best contracts in the country, and the county can no longer afford to pay for basic government services. Very frustrating, and frightening if I think about it too much. Quote It ain't ever gonna happen because it's the rich voting on it! It ain't you . It ain't me. As Richard Bach said, "Argue for your limitations, and they're yours to keep". Go do something about it. Quote Face it !!! The rich and the corporations decide who we can vote for in each election. They definitely provide momentum, but they do not have final say. All you have to do is get involved, and stay involved.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #65 October 14, 2011 Quote Easy. We gave it to them. +1We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #66 October 14, 2011 Quote Barnie Frank is one of the few politicians who wants to regulate the $600 trillion dollar derivatives market. After the whole meltdown of 2008 do you really trust wall street to regulate itself. We're not talking about billions anymore, more like trillions. Do you know what a derivative is? In simple terms, it's an insurance policy. The $600 trillion you're referring to is the sum total of all buys and sells in future dollars. The way those markets are expected to work, if there's a problem with a counterparty, all trades are netted and the remainder is sold for pennies on the dollar. One of the most fundamental practices in the financial industry is managing counterparty risk. Is the guy I'm doing trades with going to be in business tomorrow? If he's not, then don't do business with him. If you do trades with him, and he goes out of business, then you're SOL, and you fail too. If you can't manage that risk, don't get in the business. It's a real, and recurring, risk. Do you know what a qualified investor is? It's a legal term, and it says you're a big boy who can take care of yourself in the financial markets. You can only play in these markets if you're a qualified investor. Do not go whining if you lose. Guaranteed you're not going to be whining when you win. Barnie Frank is a clear and present danger. He, and his ilk, want to make decisions for those in our society who won't make decisions for themselves. That's not how our system works. Dodd-Frank is a disaster in the making. The very person who is at the root of the subprime crisis is continuing to make rules that make no sense.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #67 October 14, 2011 Quote Gwen Ifill: Who do you think was at fault? I start with you, Gov. Palin. Was it the greedy lenders? Was it the risky home-buyers who shouldn’t have been buying a home in the first place? And what should you be doing about it? This is a bit of a simplistic view. The system rotted because no one thought they faced accountability: not market accountability, nor government accountability. Who removed market accountability? Bottom line, the government.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #68 October 15, 2011 Yes, I do know what derivatives are. You try to make it seem very simple and they're not. I also do know what an accredited investor is. I worked in the IB industry for over 5 years and it's not as simple as you make it seem. Coming from that industry IMO if there would've been some regulation we wouldn't be in this mess. It amazes me how some people think that all this mess can be blamed on one person. Did you know the credit rating agencies made BILLIONS issuing BS ratings to CDOs and MBS. If you issued CDOs or MBS you literally shopped around for your rating. You didn't like what S&P gave you , well then go to Moodys and pay them for the AAA. In laymans terms if you had a 380 credit score you shopped around till you got a 800+. Coming from that industry I say regulate the crap out of it. Why is it that none of the execs from AIG, Lehmans, Goldman, S&P, Moodys, ever faced any jail time. These guys knew what they were doing and knew they were selling crap. Why is it that Lehamns was rated AAA till hours before it filed BK? What's even worse is that now you have these executives teaching at business schools. Teaching the next generation how to swindle billions. I'm all for capitalism, but what these guys did is beyond criminal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfritz 0 #69 October 15, 2011 *** What's even worse is that now you have these executives teaching at business schools. Teaching the next generation how to swindle billions. Quote No! What is worse is that one of those is now the Secretary of Treasury! http://dailybail.com/home/must-see-i-am-not-moving.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #70 October 15, 2011 Quote You try to make it seem very simple and they're not. Yes, I do try and keep these discussions simple, because most people can't relate to it otherwise. I've been in the industry for 17 years now (secondary market for passthroughs, mainly) , and I do appreciate the complexities. Quote Coming from that industry IMO if there would've been some regulation we wouldn't be in this mess. Repealing Glass-Steagall was a mistake, IMO. Quote It amazes me how some people think that all this mess can be blamed on one person. I hope I haven't sounded like that. There is lots of blame to go around. Quote Did you know the credit rating agencies made BILLIONS issuing BS ratings to CDOs and MBS. If you issued CDOs or MBS you literally shopped around for your rating. You didn't like what S&P gave you , well then go to Moodys and pay them for the AAA. In laymans terms if you had a 380 credit score you shopped around till you got a 800+. Yes, I'm aware of this. The SROs were the last firewall in this mess, and they failed miserably because the dealers had them in their pockets. Anyone rating a CDO AAA should have immediately lost their "prudent man" license. I would agree there was willful neglect and failure to meet their fiduciary requirements. Quote Why is it that none of the execs from AIG, Lehmans, Goldman, S&P, Moodys, ever faced any jail time. These guys knew what they were doing and knew they were selling crap. These guys were making a market that the government wanted made, bottom line. Otherwise, that market never would have been there. I agree they knew what was going on re: crappy paper, and they were pretty sleazy, but I don't see how someone can claim they're criminally liable. Not to say they weren't, I just haven't heard a valid case for that, in my mind.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfritz 0 #71 October 15, 2011 ***These guys were making a market that the government wanted made, bottom line. Quote And education sucks because that's what government wants! They don't want thinking individuals. They want people who are just educated enough to run the machines and file the paperwork. Government, the corpocracy, doesn't want people who can think for themselves! Take a break. Relax!!! Have some Gatorade. It s got electrolites!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #72 October 15, 2011 Had to fire up another sock puppet, treetop?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfritz 0 #73 October 15, 2011 QuoteHad to fire up another sock puppet, treetop? I didn't "have to" Neal. No one was holding a gun to my head just this moment. No, I chose to! LOL! So while I have your attention Neal do tell me; Do you expect that you will at some point in time become one of the 1% or will you always be among the 99%? Peace. "Treetop" aka LORD OF THE SKY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #74 October 15, 2011 SURE, you "chose" to...had NOTHING to do with your last one getting the axe, I'm sure.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfritz 0 #75 October 15, 2011 QuoteSURE, you "chose" to...had NOTHING to do with your last one getting the axe, I'm sure. Well of course the last one was axed! And that is why I "chose to". Like I said no one put a gun to my head. It was my decision to come back to this forum. I figured I owed the skydiving community the wisdom they have missed the last few years. A diet of Bilvon and Quade would leave anyone intelligently stunted ! No worries!!! I am here for all of you!!! "Treetop" aka, LORD OF THE SKY PS!!! I was rotflmol reading somewhere where the speculation was that I was Dream Dancer or Lucky! Aren't they chicks?? Do I come across like a chick? I'm starting to doubt my own masculinity based on the opinion of Dropzone .com participants. Please could I get just one "You the Man" for old times sake? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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StreetScooby 5 #70 October 15, 2011 Quote You try to make it seem very simple and they're not. Yes, I do try and keep these discussions simple, because most people can't relate to it otherwise. I've been in the industry for 17 years now (secondary market for passthroughs, mainly) , and I do appreciate the complexities. Quote Coming from that industry IMO if there would've been some regulation we wouldn't be in this mess. Repealing Glass-Steagall was a mistake, IMO. Quote It amazes me how some people think that all this mess can be blamed on one person. I hope I haven't sounded like that. There is lots of blame to go around. Quote Did you know the credit rating agencies made BILLIONS issuing BS ratings to CDOs and MBS. If you issued CDOs or MBS you literally shopped around for your rating. You didn't like what S&P gave you , well then go to Moodys and pay them for the AAA. In laymans terms if you had a 380 credit score you shopped around till you got a 800+. Yes, I'm aware of this. The SROs were the last firewall in this mess, and they failed miserably because the dealers had them in their pockets. Anyone rating a CDO AAA should have immediately lost their "prudent man" license. I would agree there was willful neglect and failure to meet their fiduciary requirements. Quote Why is it that none of the execs from AIG, Lehmans, Goldman, S&P, Moodys, ever faced any jail time. These guys knew what they were doing and knew they were selling crap. These guys were making a market that the government wanted made, bottom line. Otherwise, that market never would have been there. I agree they knew what was going on re: crappy paper, and they were pretty sleazy, but I don't see how someone can claim they're criminally liable. Not to say they weren't, I just haven't heard a valid case for that, in my mind.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfritz 0 #71 October 15, 2011 ***These guys were making a market that the government wanted made, bottom line. Quote And education sucks because that's what government wants! They don't want thinking individuals. They want people who are just educated enough to run the machines and file the paperwork. Government, the corpocracy, doesn't want people who can think for themselves! Take a break. Relax!!! Have some Gatorade. It s got electrolites!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #72 October 15, 2011 Had to fire up another sock puppet, treetop?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfritz 0 #73 October 15, 2011 QuoteHad to fire up another sock puppet, treetop? I didn't "have to" Neal. No one was holding a gun to my head just this moment. No, I chose to! LOL! So while I have your attention Neal do tell me; Do you expect that you will at some point in time become one of the 1% or will you always be among the 99%? Peace. "Treetop" aka LORD OF THE SKY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #74 October 15, 2011 SURE, you "chose" to...had NOTHING to do with your last one getting the axe, I'm sure.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfritz 0 #75 October 15, 2011 QuoteSURE, you "chose" to...had NOTHING to do with your last one getting the axe, I'm sure. Well of course the last one was axed! And that is why I "chose to". Like I said no one put a gun to my head. It was my decision to come back to this forum. I figured I owed the skydiving community the wisdom they have missed the last few years. A diet of Bilvon and Quade would leave anyone intelligently stunted ! No worries!!! I am here for all of you!!! "Treetop" aka, LORD OF THE SKY PS!!! I was rotflmol reading somewhere where the speculation was that I was Dream Dancer or Lucky! Aren't they chicks?? Do I come across like a chick? I'm starting to doubt my own masculinity based on the opinion of Dropzone .com participants. Please could I get just one "You the Man" for old times sake? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
mnealtx 0 #72 October 15, 2011 Had to fire up another sock puppet, treetop?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfritz 0 #73 October 15, 2011 QuoteHad to fire up another sock puppet, treetop? I didn't "have to" Neal. No one was holding a gun to my head just this moment. No, I chose to! LOL! So while I have your attention Neal do tell me; Do you expect that you will at some point in time become one of the 1% or will you always be among the 99%? Peace. "Treetop" aka LORD OF THE SKY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #74 October 15, 2011 SURE, you "chose" to...had NOTHING to do with your last one getting the axe, I'm sure.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfritz 0 #75 October 15, 2011 QuoteSURE, you "chose" to...had NOTHING to do with your last one getting the axe, I'm sure. Well of course the last one was axed! And that is why I "chose to". Like I said no one put a gun to my head. It was my decision to come back to this forum. I figured I owed the skydiving community the wisdom they have missed the last few years. A diet of Bilvon and Quade would leave anyone intelligently stunted ! No worries!!! I am here for all of you!!! "Treetop" aka, LORD OF THE SKY PS!!! I was rotflmol reading somewhere where the speculation was that I was Dream Dancer or Lucky! Aren't they chicks?? Do I come across like a chick? I'm starting to doubt my own masculinity based on the opinion of Dropzone .com participants. Please could I get just one "You the Man" for old times sake? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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