quade 3 #1 September 15, 2011 So, um, yeah . . . can I talk to the guys that said it was ok for them to have access to guns? I especially want to talk to the guys that were saying schizophrenics posed no threat. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/09/ihop-shooting-carson-city-eduardo-sencion-schizophrenia.htmlquade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #2 September 15, 2011 QuoteSo, um, yeah . . . can I talk to the guys that said it was ok for them to have access to guns? I especially want to talk to the guys that were saying schizophrenics posed no threat. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/09/ihop-shooting-carson-city-eduardo-sencion-schizophrenia.html might need to be more specific as I don't recall generic support for diagnosed (and committed) schizophrenics to obtain guns. Much more concern about diagnosis done by politicians, or a broad definition of mental health (ie, all skydivers have death wishes, can't be trusted) I vaguely remember someone in the profession speaking to that disorder, but cannot recall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #3 September 15, 2011 Quote Quote So, um, yeah . . . can I talk to the guys that said it was ok for them to have access to guns? I especially want to talk to the guys that were saying schizophrenics posed no threat. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/09/ihop-shooting-carson-city-eduardo-sencion-schizophrenia.html might need to be more specific as I don't recall generic support for diagnosed (and committed) schizophrenics to obtain guns. Much more concern about diagnosis done by politicians, or a broad definition of mental health (ie, all skydivers have death wishes, can't be trusted) I vaguely remember someone in the profession speaking to that disorder, but cannot recall. one key-diagnosis-thingy is being "delusional" and/or hearing voices for example.. but then 95% of all the SC-posters would be schizophrenic, no wonder they're mostly up for guns.. yes, the religious nutters are pretty close to that too! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #4 September 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteSo, um, yeah . . . can I talk to the guys that said it was ok for them to have access to guns? I especially want to talk to the guys that were saying schizophrenics posed no threat. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/09/ihop-shooting-carson-city-eduardo-sencion-schizophrenia.html might need to be more specific as I don't recall generic support for diagnosed (and committed) schizophrenics to obtain guns. Much more concern about diagnosis done by politicians, or a broad definition of mental health (ie, all skydivers have death wishes, can't be trusted) I vaguely remember someone in the profession speaking to that disorder, but cannot recall. Maybe this thread will jog your memory. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4145248;search_string=schizophrenic;#4145248quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #5 September 15, 2011 I would imagine a few on this site will call this bullshit and nothing more than gun grabbing gun-o-phobes trying to squash their right to own a gun. They will, probably, claim if everyone had a gun this would had never happened. http://www.officer.com/article/10232250/mentally-ill-potential-violence"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #6 September 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo, um, yeah . . . can I talk to the guys that said it was ok for them to have access to guns? I especially want to talk to the guys that were saying schizophrenics posed no threat. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/09/ihop-shooting-carson-city-eduardo-sencion-schizophrenia.html might need to be more specific as I don't recall generic support for diagnosed (and committed) schizophrenics to obtain guns. Much more concern about diagnosis done by politicians, or a broad definition of mental health (ie, all skydivers have death wishes, can't be trusted) I vaguely remember someone in the profession speaking to that disorder, but cannot recall. Maybe this thread will jog your memory. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4145248;search_string=schizophrenic;#4145248 now there's complete proof that yankee universities are better primary schools.. self-appointed dr. prof. virgin-burner!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #7 September 15, 2011 QuoteMaybe this thread will jog your memory. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4145248;search_string=schizophrenic;#4145248 Damn, Quade! Shoot yourself in the foot, eh? You said, "So, Dr., you have no problem with a person that is unable to tell the difference between reality and fantasy owning a gun? Seriously? " Another fine example of putting words into somebody's mouth. Another fine example of misinterpreting what was said. You're challenging Kallend for the honor of Top Dog in that world aren't you?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #8 September 15, 2011 It's not a misrepresentation of what he said at all. I was giving him a way out and he continued down the path advocating gun ownership for schizophrenics for roughly seven more pages. Are you also in that camp?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #9 September 15, 2011 Quote Maybe this thread will jog your memory. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4145248;search_string=schizophrenic;#4145248 Ah, yes, the thread where you kept trying to put words into people's mouths and then attack them for it. If you want DFWAJG to answer, you'll probably have to PM her to come look here. But if your argument is that one incident trumps a doctor's education and experience, well this is exactly why these sorts of decisions need a clearly defined due process written by doctors, not gun controller types like yourself. And to close with a quote from the doctor: Quote You, sir, have NO understanding of mental illness. How many people have you met who have had a serious mental illness such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder? I've met thousands. Perhaps you should have an understanding of the DSM-IV and those that have these illnesses before you start taking away their rights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #10 September 15, 2011 QuoteIt's not a misrepresentation of what he said at all. I was giving him a way out and he continued down the path advocating gun ownership for schizophrenics for roughly seven more pages. Are you also in that camp? I'm in the camp that says one has constitutional rights to bear arms. I'm in the camp that says those rights may be revoked for reason, after due process. Otherwise, the rights stand as per the constitution. I am NOT in the camp that would deny those rights frivolously whether that stems from fear or anything else. There are no justifications for attempting that. If one expects a perfect world, one is going to be very disappointed in life. You can point at specific instances until doomsday and you won't be able to prevent them no matter what you do short of locking everyone up....including yourself.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #11 September 15, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia would you really want a person with such symptoms to bear even a nailclipper!? me, i like to have them on another continent with a ton of water between us. thank god! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #12 September 15, 2011 I want guns ... and so do I (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #13 September 15, 2011 QuoteI want guns ... and so do I Us too! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #14 September 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteI want guns ... and so do I Us too! we three. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #15 September 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI want guns ... and so do I Us too! we three. QuoteDespite the etymology of the term from the Greek roots skhizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-; "mind"), schizophrenia does not imply a "split mind" and it is not the same as dissociative identity disorder—also known as "multiple personality disorder" or "split personality"—a condition with which it is often confused in public perception just sayin'..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #16 September 15, 2011 A lot of good reading on the subject at this site: http://karisable.com/crmh.htm Personally, if a family member has been diagnosed with schizophrenia or bipolar, I would hope his or her gun could be removed. I would hope for their safety as well as for the safety of others. It's not a matter of "rights", it is a matter of preserving the life of a loved one. I much rather my brother or sister (or any other person) be safe and alive, than give in and allow them to walk around with a gun. I would much rather their right to own a gun be removed, than they fall into the percentage that do kill during an episode. It is irresponsible for gun rights advocates to say that a severely mentally ill person should be allowed to have a gun until they do kill someone. I'd rather a family member be alive and safe and that is no business of gun rights advocates."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #17 September 15, 2011 Quote A lot of good reading on the subject at this site: http://karisable.com/crmh.htm Personally, if a family member has been diagnosed with schizophrenia or bipolar, I would hope his or her gun could be removed. I would hope for their safety as well as for the safety of others. It's not a matter of "rights", it is a matter of preserving the life of a loved one. I much rather my brother or sister (or any other person) be safe and alive, than give in and allow them to walk around with a gun. I would much rather their right to own a gun be removed, than they fall into the percentage that do kill during an episode. It is irresponsible for gun rights advocates to say that a severely mentally ill person should be allowed to have a gun until they do kill someone. I'd rather a family member be alive and safe and that is no business of gun rights advocates. that opinion would probably quite quickly change when it was their kid or whatnot that got shot.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 September 15, 2011 Quote It is irresponsible for gun rights advocates to say that a severely mentally ill person should be allowed to have a gun until they do kill someone. Sure, but no one has said such. It's irresponsible for Americans or any other freedom espousing people to say that freedoms should be taken away from someone they suspect may mentally ill and dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #19 September 15, 2011 Quote A lot of good reading on the subject at this site: http://karisable.com/crmh.htm Personally, if a family member has been diagnosed with schizophrenia or bipolar, I would hope his or her gun could be removed. I would hope for their safety as well as for the safety of others. It's not a matter of "rights", it is a matter of preserving the life of a loved one. I much rather my brother or sister (or any other person) be safe and alive, than give in and allow them to walk around with a gun. I would much rather their right to own a gun be removed, than they fall into the percentage that do kill during an episode. It is irresponsible for gun rights advocates to say that a severely mentally ill person should be allowed to have a gun until they do kill someone. I'd rather a family member be alive and safe and that is no business of gun rights advocates. When my Dad died, I was having a hard time. I went to a licensed therapist to vent some garbage I was carrying around with me. The therapist I went to tried to convince me that I must be bi-polar. Yes, she said...."you are a skydiver, this certainly must indicate mania. Why else would you risk your life like that" ..."Yes, your sadness in combination with mania such as skydiving, rodeoing, etc. indicates that you must surely be bi-polar" ....Well, I too am a licensed therapist. It didn't take me long to figure out this gal was a "Quack"! She almost has a docotorate degree. Isn't that scary! Will the government come and confiscate my closet full of guns, now! A quack came up with the wrong diagnosis. "Am I now a danger to society?"....I think not! It might be scary to note that a Bi-polar diagnosis is often the wrong diagnosis. I hope the government doesn't start giving goofy therapists the right to pick and choose who should own a gun by coming up with the wrong diagnosis. I hope it never comes to that....I work in the mental health arena, and there are some scary, scary therapists out there.....Maybe we should confiscate all their guns while we are at it!Just have the BATF give me a call. I can be their inside man. It might be fun to work undercover for them.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #20 September 15, 2011 wow, Steve brings up exactly the concern I have with where some want this to go. If we get to a point where seeing a shrink means getting marked down in the super database as mentally deficient, costing you rights, your job, etc, then people won't go when they're just having a hard time of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #21 September 15, 2011 QuoteQuote It is irresponsible for gun rights advocates to say that a severely mentally ill person should be allowed to have a gun until they do kill someone. Sure, but no one has said such. It's irresponsible for Americans or any other freedom espousing people to say that freedoms should be taken away from someone they suspect may mentally ill and dangerous. oh yea, stuff like pre-emptive strikes or WMD's in iraq, right!?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 September 15, 2011 fail to see the relevance to the topic, though it can be noted that Saddam's history of 'criminal' behavior was well established, and at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions, killed by his action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #23 September 15, 2011 Quoterelevance to the topic, though it can be noted that america's history of 'criminal' behavior was well established, and at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions, killed by its action. that can be turned right around..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 September 16, 2011 QuoteQuoterelevance to the topic, though it can be noted that america's history of 'criminal' behavior was well established, and at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions, killed by its action. that can be turned right around.. possibly, but I have yet to see Bush/Clinton/Bush charged and hung for their crimes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #25 September 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoterelevance to the topic, though it can be noted that america's history of 'criminal' behavior was well established, and at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions, killed by its action. that can be turned right around.. possibly, but I have yet to see Bush/Clinton/Bush charged and hung for their crimes. dont get out much!? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq http://www.worldpress.org/specials/iraq/ http://articles.cnn.com/2004-03-21/us/iraq.weapons_1_nuclear-weapons-hans-blix-iaea?_s=PM:US all links basically say the same thing, but i know how sources are treated around here, so there's a couple..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
