Some With Histories of Mental Illness Petition to Get Their Gun Rights Back

[quade 3]

The first few paragraphs;

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PULASKI, Va. — In May 2009, Sam French hit bottom, once again. A relative found him face down in his carport “talking gibberish,” according to court records. He later told medical personnel that he had been conversing with a bear in his backyard and hearing voices. His family figured he had gone off his medication for bipolar disorder, and a judge ordered him involuntarily committed — the fourth time in five years he had been hospitalized by court order.

When Mr. French’s daughter discovered that her father’s commitment meant it was illegal for him to have firearms, she and her husband removed his cache of 15 long guns and three handguns, and kept them after Mr. French was released in January 2010 on a new regime of mood-stabilizing drugs.

Ten months later, he appeared in General District Court — the body that handles small claims and traffic infractions — to ask a judge to restore his gun rights. After a brief hearing, in which Mr. French’s lengthy history of relapses never came up, he walked out with an order reinstating his right to possess firearms.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/03/us/03guns.html

Can somebody explain to me how it makes sense to allow mentally ill people to own guns?

This entire process needs to be cleaned up.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

Does he have a history of gun violence? Typical Liberal in you Quade. He's unstable, that means he must be homicidal? Would you also want his drivers license revoked? He could take out a lot more people with a huge gas guzzling SUV from China than with a firearm.

[quade 3]

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Does he have a history of gun violence? Typical Liberal in you Quade. He's unstable, that means he must be homicidal? Would you also want his drivers license revoked? He could take out a lot more people with a huge gas guzzling SUV from China than with a firearm.

I'm curious if you actually read the article.

It's not about the guy, but the process or rather lack thereof.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

This is where political philosophies differ. A person with a right has his weapons summarily seized. He goes to court and gets them back and you find a problem with the process - or lack thereof - that would allow the restoration of a person's rights.

You have the problem with a restoration of a person's rights after a summary abrogation. Me, I have a problem with the lack of process in taking them to begin with. Putting the burden on a citizen - who has committed no crime - is distasteful. Did this guy ask to be sick?

What would you say of a person found on the ground due to a TIA? A diabetic?

Paul - you know far less than me about mental illness. I don't know shit. What I do know I'd that you are advocating stripping rights from those who have committed no crime because you think that a mentally ill person is going to kill somebody with no other evidence than derogatory stereotype.

They must be subhuman...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 3]

Just so I'm clear, you have no issues with guns in the hands of mentally ill people. Is that correct?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Just so I'm clear, you have no issues with guns in the hands of mentally ill people. Is that correct?

Just so I'm clear, you have issues with mentally ill people having SUV's?

Mentally ill does not equate to violent.

[quade 3]

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Just so I'm clear, you have no issues with guns in the hands of mentally ill people. Is that correct?

Just so I'm clear, you have issues with mentally ill people having SUV's?
Mentally ill does not equate to violent.

And there's nothing that says being an unsupervised seven-year-old equates to violent either, but did you really want him to have a gun as well?

It's not a matter of them being violent; it's a matter of them being rational and responsible for their actions.

If a person, as described in the opening paragraphs of the article in the original post has conversations with bears in his backyard and hears voices in his head when he's not on medication, doesn't that indicate that maybe he's not in a condition to be a responsible gun owner?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

I'll ask you for the 3rd time, do you think someone mentally ill should have their drivers license taken away to prevent them from crashing an SUV into a crowd of people? If not, do you support them crashing it into a Shopping Mall and then running down hundreds of innocent people? It COULD happen.

[quade 3]

That's right Grav, keep trying to deflect the conversation rather than address the actual issue.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Shotgun 1]

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Can somebody explain to me how it makes sense to allow mentally ill people to own guns?

"Mentally ill" is a very broad term, and I wouldn't want to take someone's rights away simply because they went to a psychiatrist and got a diagnosis. But for the guy who was seeing bears and hearing voices, yeah, it seems like there should have been more of an investigation into his current condition before reinstating his right to own a gun.

[Shotgun 1]

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I'll ask you for the 3rd time, do you think someone mentally ill should have their drivers license taken away to prevent them from crashing an SUV into a crowd of people? If not, do you support them crashing it into a Shopping Mall and then running down hundreds of innocent people? It COULD happen.

I don't know about other states, but in CA certain mental disorders will prevent someone from having a driver's license.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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That's right Grav, keep trying to deflect the conversation rather than address the actual issue.

Just trying to see if you are going to be consistent. Truth is Quade, you are a Gunophobe and are more frightened by a little handgun than you are a huge SUV.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I'll ask you for the 3rd time, do you think someone mentally ill should have their drivers license taken away to prevent them from crashing an SUV into a crowd of people? If not, do you support them crashing it into a Shopping Mall and then running down hundreds of innocent people? It COULD happen.

I don't know about other states, but in CA certain mental disorders will prevent someone from having a driver's license.

I agree that if he's wacky enough to take his driving privileges away, he's wacky enough to take his guns away. But, just because someone hears voices, it does not follow they are violent. Those bears he's talking to might be very friendly bears and he feels comfortable and serene with them.

[quade 3]

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That's right Grav, keep trying to deflect the conversation rather than address the actual issue.

Just trying to see if you are going to be consistent. Truth is Quade, you are a Gunophobe and are more frightened by a little handgun than you are a huge SUV.

Actually, the truth is, you know nothing substantial about me at all. You never have and you never will. But continue to believe whatever the hell you feel like if it's what makes you happy.

So, back to the topic at hand, can I put you down as being in favor of gun ownership by mentally ill persons?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

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That's right Grav, keep trying to deflect the conversation rather than address the actual issue.

Just trying to see if you are going to be consistent. Truth is Quade, you are a Gunophobe and are more frightened by a little handgun than you are a huge SUV.

Actually, the truth is, you know nothing substantial about me at all. You never have and you never will. But continue to believe whatever the hell you feel like if it's what makes you happy.

So, back to the topic at hand, can I put you down as being in favor of gun ownership by mentally ill persons?

My, my, touchy aren't you? Obviously I hit a nerve.

Sorry, I'm not playing your Minority Report Game.

So, I can put you down as in favor of removing the driving privilages of someone judged mentally ill even when they have never exhibited any violent tendencies?

[Shotgun 1]

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But, just because someone hears voices, it does not follow they are violent.

As quade already mentioned, it's not necessarily about violent tendencies. It's about having the mental capacity to understand how to safely handle a firearm (or vehicle). Some mental disorders may affect this; others may not.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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But, just because someone hears voices, it does not follow they are violent.

As quade already mentioned, it's not necessarily about violent tendencies. It's about having the mental capacity to understand how to safely handle a firearm (or vehicle). Some mental disorders may affect this; others may not.

I've already agreed that if they are too wacky to drive, they are too wacky to have a gun. In this case, after judicial review, this persons right to have his guns was restored. Hopefully his right to drive was not infringed either.

[Southern_Man 0]

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I don't know about other states, but in CA certain mental disorders will prevent someone from having a driver's license.

Is this true? Which mental disorders? I am only aware of states restricting for some physical conditions, most commonly epilepsy. I was not aware that any states restricted driving privileges for mental illness.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Shotgun 1]

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I don't know about other states, but in CA certain mental disorders will prevent someone from having a driver's license.

Is this true? Which mental disorders? I am only aware of states restricting for some physical conditions, most commonly epilepsy. I was not aware that any states restricted driving privileges for mental illness.

I don't know how often (or how) it is enforced, but this is what the DMV says about it:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/driversafety/pm_guidelines.htm

[Southern_Man 0]

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I don't know about other states, but in CA certain mental disorders will prevent someone from having a driver's license.

Is this true? Which mental disorders? I am only aware of states restricting for some physical conditions, most commonly epilepsy. I was not aware that any states restricted driving privileges for mental illness.

I don't know how often (or how) it is enforced, but this is what the DMV says about it:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/driversafety/pm_guidelines.htm

I see. My speculative interpretation (and it is highly speculative) is that this could be used for cases of senile dementia. Although it can be used for any sort of mental or physical condition not that its application is driven by symptoms, not diagnosis and that there has to be a "nexus" between the condition and driving. I do not think the mental health statutes currently do a very good job showing a nexus between the mental illness and inability to handle firearms safely (either in the original removal of rights or in the restoration proceedings which were the focus of the article Quade posted).

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[ECVZZ 0]

Keely: I know you wouldn't remember, but we've met (years ago, at the Bombshelter) and shared drinks and some good conversation. I like you...I really do. I've also Met Paul several times, and shared conversation over lunch a time or two. You both seem like reasonable people.... well, maybe not Paul (J/K Paul, I hope you know that ), so tell me this: How the hell are you supposed to handle talking bears without a BIG. FUCKING. GUN!

On a serious note, this man got his guns back the same way people adjudicated as not guilty of a capital offense by reason of insanity or mental illness, are at times "treated" to bring them to a state of mental competency sufficient that they can then be executed for their crime(s).

If a mentally incompetent individual can become competent enough to be executed for something they may not even know they did (but for someone telling them, and/or showing them evidence) I don't see why one could not have their 2nd amendment rights restored in a similar situation...hell, it's not like he actually killed a talking bear.

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."

[JohnRich 4]

Heck, I've been seeing talking bears all my life: Smokey the Bear, Yogi Bear, Boo-Boo Bear, Teddy Bears, Care Bears, Brer Bear, Winnie the Pooh, Gary Larson's Bears, Sugar Crisp Sugar Bear, Charmin toilet paper Bears, Sesame Street's Baby Bear, and my favorite: Muppet's Fozzy Bear. Wocka Wocka Wocka!

I've seen other talking animals too: dogs, mice, moose, squirrels, monkeys, birds, fish, you name it.

Am I crazy? Should I forfeit all my guns?

Did you know that the word "quade" in Dutch means "bad, angry or quarrelsome"?

[ECVZZ 0]

Yes. Immediately! You have all the classic warning signs of someone who may be a danger to hardened criminals. We can't have you running around randomly protecting yourself; that's what the police are for. Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

You should immediately send all of your firearms to me for proper disposal... Address to follow.

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."

[quade 3]

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Did you know that the word "quade" in Dutch means "bad, angry or quarrelsome"?

Did you really want to play that game, JOHN?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,470]

>Just so I'm clear, you have issues with mentally ill people having SUV's?

I am. Someone who is mentally ill - and cannot tell right from wrong, or threatens others with violence - should not have access to any deadly weapons, whether they are SUV's or handguns.