Pension funds invest in big bad oil

[dmcoco84 4]

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Heck, if air and water are refined, you can put that in your Toyota too.

Bill Bill Bill... still such a smart ass.

How about some, OLD, info from a "trusted" source?

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What Sustained Oil Prices are Required for Oil Shale Projects to be Economic?

- First of a kind mining and surface retorting plants may eventually be economic, providing a minimum 15% rate of return, at sustained average world oil prices above $54.00 per barrel.

- In-situ (underground) processes may be economic at sustained average world oil prices above $35 per barrel.

http://fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/npr/Oil_Shale_Economics_Fact_Sheet1.pdf

Like I said... $55 a barrel. Air force... already doing it.

We are at 115 right now. And included in that price... is the cost of the tanker to send it from SA. Unnecessary with Shale to Gasoline.

No billvon: it is more difficult, than light crude, but not... difficult.

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Can Costs be Expected to Decrease Over Time?

-Yes. Capital and operating costs can be expected to decrease over time with operating experience, improved understanding, design enhancements, and improved operating efficiencies, analogous to the experience of the Province of Alberta in developing its oil sands resources.

And if we had already done it, (Allowing States to decide and not be controlled by unconstitutional Federal central planning) we would be set for life.

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I don't really trust any of them. BP and the Exxon Valdez come to mind.

Dude, you are ridiculous... Valdez isn't even a drilling issue!

Of everyone drilling for oil, the USA is the safest, and cares the most about protecting the environment.

Your statement, is yet another cop-out.

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A 9.6kW grid interactive solar power system on our house. We generate around 50kwhr/day this time of year.

Nice, I was looking at these:
http://www.wepower.us/products/falcon/index.html
Was... PacWind when they were on Modern Marvels.

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but in general natural gas is going to be cheaper

Cheaper than $2 dollars a gallon?

Hydrogen would have been: $2 Kilogram. = $2 Gallon Gas

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Safer

How is natural gas safer than hydrogen?



We'll get back to ethanol later... I don't have my data at hand.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Have you ever handled hydrogen? It has several drawbacks, including:
>The shit leaks through everything. A microscopic pinhole that molecules of gasoline or NG could not pass through will empty a hydrogen tank overnight, creating a potential bomb in the process.
>In order to carry enough H2 to have a decent range, it needs to be pressurized...a LOT! We're talking 4000+ psi. Once it is in the tank it is safe. Problem is, how do we train millions of idiots how to fill those tanks without blowing themselves up?

Regardless of how much crude oil is left it is still a finite amount. It will run out at some point. We can either wait until then to find alternative sources, or we can be proactive and use the existing crude to help find and produce it's replacements. Yes, replacements. No one fuel will replace oil. For example an electric car that will carry a family of four for 300 miles at 75 mph and can be recharged in ten minutes is still a pipedream. The technology just isn't there and won't be in the foreseeable future. Gasoline or diesel will do just fine in that application. But an all electric commuter car that will go 40+ miles between charges at 60 mph can be bought today. Are they perfect? Nope, but they are a hell of a lot better than the ones we had 20 years ago and a 40 mile range meets the commute needs of more than 75% of workers.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 2,427]

>Bill Bill Bill... still such a smart ass.

I'm not trying to be a smartass.

But I think you miss the fact that shale oil is not the same as light sweet crude, or like any other kind of crude. It''s not "a barrel of oil." It is harder to refine into gasoline. You can get about 21 gallons of gasoline from 42 gallons of light sweet crude (i.e. 1 barrel) using normal refining techniques. With a lot of tricks (breaking down longer chain hydrocarbons via thermal cracking etc) you can increase that, but that's energy intensive, which means (you guessed it) you need fuel to do it, which takes away from your totals.

What can you get from shale oil? It's much heavier than crude, so you can't get as much gasoline (lower fraction of the lighter hydrocarbons used for gasoline.) If you can get 7 gallons of gasoline from 42 gallons of shale oil instead of 21 - will you think that $55/barrel is still such a good deal? If you need to use the energy equivalent of 3 barrels of shale oil to generate 1 barrel of gasoline through cracking - still think it's a good deal?

That being said, if you modify your vehicle to deal with the heavier fuel, you're in good shape. Modified diesel cars should work fine. Cars use gasoline because it was easy to make from crude oil, not because it's the best fuel out there.

>How is natural gas safer than hydrogen?

Vastly lower pressures to store the same energy. 1 cu ft of 300psi of natural gas is approximately equivalent to 1 cu ft of 5000psi of hydrogen. If you're going to be in a vehicle when the tank ruptures, you're going to be a lot happier if the pressure in the tank is 300psi. (Neither is good of course.)

Mixture needed for combustion. With natural gas it's 5-15%. That's pretty narrow; that's why it's OK to hook a natural gas stove up, turn the valve and try to light it. The pipe does not explode because there's only a narrow range of mixtures that will combust. That's also why people with gas stoves do not regularly blow themselves to bits when it takes a while to light it.

With hydrogen it's 4-75%. That means almost any mixture is flammable. Good for combustion, but bad for dealing with leaks and backflow.

[jumpwally 0]

Its not a drilling issue,,its weak American Corporate management/decision making is what lead to those disasters.

You guys can argue all you want on drilling-availability-capacaties,,etc, the biggest problem now is the weakness of our dollar, thats hitting the cost of gas big time and its bound to get worse....

smile, be nice, enjoy life
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