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sandi 0
QuoteNot trying to minimize the wrongdoing, however, it's interesting to note that, as much attention that is brought to the Salem Trials, there were only about 20 executions. You'd think it was on par with the Holocaust.
Only 20 dead women, no big deal. If I remember my history correctly there were witch trials in Europe prior to Salem. I imagine the head count is much higher. Certainly not comparable to the Holocaust but not so trivial that it doesn't matter.
Must have been a very difficult time for women. At any given time you could be dragged off and burned at the stake. If you had daughters they might as well burn them too, since they're probably witches too.
Just one of many examples of the wonderful events in history in which religion has played a role. Religion has never been particularly kind to women, this is just one the the more violent examples.
beowulf 1
QuoteQuoteIn the 12th Century it was considered in accordance with your god's law to invade another country and slaughter its population, women and children included.
In the 15th Century it was considered in accordance with your god's law to torture "heretics" to death, and/or burn them at the stake.
Your god's law doesn't seem at all objective or absolute to me - it's whatever the priesthood says it is for their own convenience at any given time.
There was a reason for the Protestant Reformation. Sola Scriptura, sola fide. The church in Rome wasn't always apostate...but they are now...and they certainly do not represent the Church as a whole. The Priesthood is not the head of the Church. Jesus Christ is. What evil men do in the face of what is right does not discredit the standard. Everyone will be judged by God for what they have done...in the end. As for the rest, let's be sure to mention that the Crusades (not defending the atrocities but I'm sure they occurred on both sides) began because of Muslim aggression.
Ah yes the old "they're not really christians anymore" argument! Any time someone brings up atrocities done in the name of christianity or any christians that you don't agree with out comes the "They're not really christians". Such a cop out and bullshit excuse.
There is no objective or absolute moral law in christianity.
Butters 0
You've shown that your morals are not only subjective but change based on time ... fantastic. 
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch
QuoteJust one of many examples of the wonderful events in history in which religion has played a role. Religion has never been particularly kind to women, this is just one the the more violent examples.
To be historically accurate, you really need to distinguish Christianity from "religion" in general (e.g. Islam, etc.).
"As a result of Jesus Christ and His teachings, women in much of the world today, especially in the West, enjoy more privileges and rights than at any other time in history. It takes only a cursory trip to an Arab nation or to a Third World country to see how little freedom women have in countries where Christianity has had little or no presence.{19} It’s the best thing that ever happened to women."
http://bible.org/article/christianity-best-thing-ever-happened-women
Not saying that people haven't throughout history misinterpreted, misapplied, and even maliciously distorted the scriptures, however, the teachings of Jesus Christ elevate the status of women. That is yet one more thing that makes it unique in the world.
Religion (generally speaking), like you said, hasn't been particularly kind to women but that cannot be said of the grammatical/historical interpretation of what the Bible says concerning women.
QuoteYou've shown that your morals are not only subjective but change based on time ... fantastic.
It's possible that mine could (hopefully, not to a large extent, though) because I'm human and God, throughout the course of my life, is conforming me to His standard (I've got a very long way to go). However, my shortcoming is not the point. The point is that God's standard does not change.
Butters 0
QuoteQuoteYou've shown that your morals are not only subjective but change based on time ... fantastic.
It's possible that mine could (hopefully, not to a large extent, though) because I'm human and God, throughout the course of my life, is conforming me to His standard (I've got a very long way to go). However, my shortcoming is not the point. The point is that God's standard does not change.
And more rubbish ... it changed from the old testament to the new testament.
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch
Bullshit.
"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)
"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
Sounds "empowering" to me
What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo
Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama
Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama
beowulf 1
QuoteQuoteYou've shown that your morals are not only subjective but change based on time ... fantastic.
It's possible that mine could (hopefully, not to a large extent, though) because I'm human and God, throughout the course of my life, is conforming me to His standard (I've got a very long way to go). However, my shortcoming is not the point. The point is that God's standard does not change.
It's pretty well established that according to the Bible that standard has changed. The real problem is that the standards are ambiguous and subject to interpretation. The ten commandments that you submitted as being "Gods Moral Law" is interpreted in many different ways and there is no way to say which is correct.
For an almighty and omnipotent being your god isn't very clear on his laws.
"There are no believeable gods."
QuoteAnd more rubbish ... it changed from the old testament to the new testament.
God's moral standard has not changed from Genesis to Revelation or until now...nor will it ever. God is the same in the past, present, and future. He does not change. That is one of his incommunicable attributes.
beowulf 1
QuoteQuoteAnd more rubbish ... it changed from the old testament to the new testament.
God's moral standard has not changed from Genesis to Revelation or until now...nor will it ever. God is the same in the past, present, and future. He does not change. That is one of his incommunicable attributes.
That is your opinion. It's not supported by any evidence.
QuoteSounds "empowering" to me
Which one of those do you wish to discuss? You've got to read passeges before and after in order to understand their meaning. For instance, Ephesians 5 is illustrating what the marriage relationship "should be." The submission discussed is not referring to a domineering or overpowering control over a woman. It's referring to perfect submission. The husband being head of the wife does not indicate superiority. We are all equal in the eyes of God. It is simply the role he has been assigned (which is a huge one to which he will be held accountable). If you keep reading, it goes on to say that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the Church in that He gave his life up for it. If a husband loves his wife so much that he is willing to give up everything and die for her, then her best interests are always at the forefront. The husband "submiits" to his wife in that way. They submit one and to the other. It's easy to submit or be accountable to one another when that kind of perfect relationship exists. The marriage relationship is just an illustration of the one between Jesus Christ and the Father. Both are of the same essense (worth), however one submits to the other (willingly).
wolfriverjoe 1,366
QuoteQuoteAnd more rubbish ... it changed from the old testament to the new testament.
God's moral standard has not changed from Genesis to Revelation or until now...nor will it ever. God is the same in the past, present, and future. He does not change. That is one of his incommunicable attributes.
Really?
From "Stone those who do any work on the Sabbath" and striking down with fire those who dare to touch the Ark of the Covenant (OT) to "Turn the other cheek" and "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"(NT)?
You don't see any change there??
God may or may not have changed, but people's interpretation of him certainly has.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
God has done nothing but make covenants with sinners....every one of them....I don't understand your point.
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