Iran: West taints cigarettes with pig blood

[rhys 0]

Quote

RIIIIIIGHT..... I guess you slept thru history of the 20th century didnt you.

So where do you suppose Japan got their oil and recources from before the USA entered world war 2?

What country provided them the lions share of thes things?

if you are so clued up on history, maybe you can enlighten me...

this is a limp edition of my knowledge;

Quote

In 1940, Japan occupied French Indochina (Vietnam) upon agreement with the French Vichy government, and joined the Axis powers Germany and Italy. These actions intensified Japan's conflict with the United States and Great Britain which reacted with an oil boycott. The resulting oil shortage and failures to solve the conflict diplomatically made Japan decide to capture the oil rich Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) and to start a war with the US and Great Britain.

Once again neither Japan nor Germany, Britain, the Soviets or the USA or any country that has been involved in any war has had a squeaky clean role in any of the respective debarcles, war is war.

No war comes without painful decisions, death, torture and descemation of habitat.

Nobody is the bad guy in thier own eyes and and the enemy is always the enemy no matter what side you are on. The Japs were getting out of hand and too big for thier boots pre ww2, but what decisions were made to prevent world war 2 happening and what have we leaned from those mistakes.

Our world has never been without war as far as I am aware and it seems like much of it would be avoidable were it not for our human nature to dominate one another, and our reluctance to admid fault.

My Family were put in prison and my grandfather was killed when the Japanese invaded the Dutch indies. My father was born in a camp in sumatra 1942. The dutch indies were invaded specifically to inavade the USA and Great Britain as they removed the oil supply to the Japanese abruptly.

There are plenty of ancillary politics involved around that and fuck knows who did what with whos money at the time as the resulting wars destroyed many records and documents.....

That shit is waaaaay in the past and if we all held anamosity from those days we would not be in the (aparent) current position of relative global harmony if we were not able to get over our past.

It is in the present and future that should concern us most. You can rest on your laurels and use the end of world war 2 all you want as an excuse to murder innocent people in the name of profit and domination of natural recources.

It is palmed off to you all as freedom and liberty all dressed up in stars and stipes and shiny ribbons but it is murder, and it is illegal, but you continue to do it, based on lies and propoganda while the truth remains unspoken as we go on living our lives.

These wars on terror and drugs... and all the bullshit that goes with it is only about power and profit and that is all it ever has been.

There is no liberty or jusctice achieved by slaughtering innocent people with expensive weaponry. It is plain old murder.

What may seem justified to you will not to those on the recieving end, and vice versa and to ignore the imminent repercussions of those actions is.....


Ignorant.

USA is seemingly asking to be attacked with your current foreign policy and the industrial military complex is ready and waiting to cater for all of your military needs . A convenient situation.

Joe blogs doesn't want to lose his job in the bomb factory once the wars finish, and when the workers in the weapons industry are in the millions, then it is important for the economy for those people to have work to do....

...isn't it?


There is no need to kill thousands of people to eliminate a certain few, but if you do it with war, then there is no avoiding it.

You cannot have a war with all the bad guys (the war on terror/drugs) and win, because you simply create more bad guys by eliminating the few, it is an exponential problem.

Yet the USA keeps piling all her cash into it??

and she's supposedly broke?

I guess that is where the Federal Reserve kinda slots into it all... but that is another story.

There is always another way. War is for wankers.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

Have you EVER pondered what your safe little world would be like if we would have just told all of you to go fuck yourselves after WWII???

I dunno you may have decided to conquer the rest of the world and fail like everybody else that has tried?

you can reast on you laurels as much as you like but a good deeds in the past do not excuse you from your lawless behavour in the present.

and further more the supply of natural recources to japan from the united states prior to WW2 were directly responsable for the japanese invading the south pacific etc.

It seems US foreign policy leaves a trail of war in it's wake.

Once again I cannot excuse the japanese for their imperial takover tactics around that time either, but America palms it self off as 'the good force' when in reality it is no better than most, we are all only looking after our own intentions.

Quote

Personally I support doing just that........ bring.... everyone home.. and all of you can just build whateverr military you will need to protect yourselves from those who have a far different world view than you do and when some assclown desides to attack us... wipe them from the face of the fucking earth..... then go back to pondering our navels for another 20 years till someone tries it again.

Then let all the little pissant countries out there go to fucking hell... and try to defend themselves from the usual human nature. Deal with that.

Do as you please, they are not attacking new zealand and denmark, they are attacking America and England... do you see the correlation there?

Quote

Oh and by the way.. do some further checking... during the Afghanistan war..... Bin Laden was not on the list of people we gave help to.

that depends on who you are inclined to listen to.

So you say OBL's involvement in terrorism towards has nothing to do with america and its proceedings in the middle east?

Are you saying he definately is responsable for the atrocities he is made out to be responsable for?

Can you take the word of the CIA and their croonies or should you look at the facts and see there is no freedom being faught for here,and your country men, are being sent to death; not for the purpose of freedom and democracy, but for profit and economics?

WTF?!

I haven't heard such a load of trollop since I spoke to a black Marine Corps vet in the late 80s, who told me that the Vietnam War was fought over Asia's rice market...

"Not attacking Denmark"? -- WTF?!

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[GeorgiaDon 355]

Quote

In 1940, Japan occupied French Indochina (Vietnam) upon agreement with the French Vichy government, and joined the Axis powers Germany and Italy. These actions intensified Japan's conflict with the United States and Great Britain which reacted with an oil boycott. The resulting oil shortage and failures to solve the conflict diplomatically made Japan decide to capture the oil rich Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) and to start a war with the US and Great Britain.

So by your own accounting of history:
Germany invades France and installs a puppet (Vichy) government.
The Vichy govt cedes French Indochina to Japan, who ally with Germany and Italy.
The Axis powers (now including Japan) are at war with Great Britain and it's allies.

But in your universe, Great Britain and it's allies should have continued to sell oil to Japan? "Boycotting" Japan provided justification for the attack on Pear Harbor etc? Why should anyone have to provide resources to a country that has declared war on them, especially resources that would allow them to prosecute that war?

An alternative, but I think more sane, perspective is that Japan was on an expansionist track that would inevitably have brought them into conflict with the US. The US was a relatively small naval power at the time, and the Japanese military recognized (correctly) that they could deliver a crippling blow to that navy by attacking the base at Pearl Harbor, and they believed (incorrectly) that the isolationist sentiment in the US would prevail and the US would simply withdraw and avoid further conflict. Without Pearl Harbor, it might have taken considerably longer for the US to join the conflict (or maybe they would never have joined), by which time the Axis powers would have been even better entrenched and more difficult to defeat. By miscalculating the American response, the Japanese military ultimately ensured it's own defeat.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

In 1940, Japan occupied French Indochina (Vietnam) upon agreement with the French Vichy government, and joined the Axis powers Germany and Italy. These actions intensified Japan's conflict with the United States and Great Britain which reacted with an oil boycott. The resulting oil shortage and failures to solve the conflict diplomatically made Japan decide to capture the oil rich Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) and to start a war with the US and Great Britain.

So by your own accounting of history:
Germany invades France and installs a puppet (Vichy) government.
The Vichy govt cedes French Indochina to Japan, who ally with Germany and Italy.
The Axis powers (now including Japan) are at war with Great Britain and it's allies.

But in your universe, Great Britain and it's allies should have continued to sell oil to Japan? "Boycotting" Japan provided justification for the attack on Pear Harbor etc? Why should anyone have to provide resources to a country that has declared war on them, especially resources that would allow them to prosecute that war?

An alternative, but I think more sane, perspective is that Japan was on an expansionist track that would inevitably have brought them into conflict with the US. The US was a relatively small naval power at the time, and the Japanese military recognized (correctly) that they could deliver a crippling blow to that navy by attacking the base at Pearl Harbor, and they believed (incorrectly) that the isolationist sentiment in the US would prevail and the US would simply withdraw and avoid further conflict. Without Pearl Harbor, it might have taken considerably longer for the US to join the conflict (or maybe they would never have joined), by which time the Axis powers would have been even better entrenched and more difficult to defeat. By miscalculating the American response, the Japanese military ultimately ensured it's own defeat.

Don

I truely would love to see the reaciton to all the wet pant leg and puddle crowd if we did decide to withdraw and let what was the typical human nature of the last century take its inevitable course.

Every time I read his take on history and flawed historical perspective..... there is the nagging sound in the background of very muted

thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop thwop

[Andy9o8 1]

Historical note: Great Britain and Japan didn't declare war on each other until Dec. 7, 1941. GB's oil boycott of Japan pre-dated that.

[rhys 0]

Quote

ut in your universe, Great Britain and it's allies should have continued to sell oil to Japan? "Boycotting" Japan provided justification for the attack on Pear Harbor etc? Why should anyone have to provide resources to a country that has declared war on them, especially resources that would allow them to prosecute that war?

Exactly, but the USA was happy making money off them until the point where they felt threatend by them.

Do you suppose the USA knew nothing about Japans intentions?

You might think I beleive it was the oil boycott that was repsonsable but that would be incorrect.

It was USA supplying them oil in the first place while thier imperial expansion was taking place, they attacked other countries and territories with USA's oil and USA allowed that to happen until the time where USA felt threatened.

Then the knee jek reaction turned that threat into a reality and next thing you are at war.

It was only a couple of years from when you were happily selling oil to them until you were full on at war with them.

In hindsight you could have seen it coming and slowy reduced the supply reducing the liklihood of their ability to attack you, but instantly removing oils supply from an expanding, violent, oil dependant nation only asked for them to attack you, just like sluaghtering the families of people that are innocent in the name on profit and power ( freedom and liberty) is only asking them to attack you also.

USA's foreign policy makes another attack on US soil imminent, not less likely.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

Quote

WTF?!

I haven't heard such a load of trollop since I spoke to a black Marine Corps vet in the late 80s, who told me that the Vietnam War was fought over Asia's rice market...SlyLaughCrazyCool

"Not attacking Denmark"? -- WTF?!

O.k. denmark was a bad example, I forgot about the cartoon debarcle, but fortunately the water has settled there somewhat.

On the above note, what do you suggest the vietnam war was supposed to achieve then?

and how close do you think the USA ever came to achieving that?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mpohl 1]

Smokers may be getting a lot more than they bargain for when lighting up — like inhaling traces of pig’s blood. Pig hemoglobin is sometimes used in cigarette filters, according to recent Dutch research reported by The Daily Telegraph — a disclosure that is bound to upset many devout Muslims and Jews. [...]

Source: Mother Jones


Just because you don't have a clue does not mean that it is not true! Same applies to others that responded thus far in this thread ridiculing Iranians and Muslims.

Quote

Really?
While I find these accusations amusing, I wonder if anyone actually believes them...

Maybe they should thank "the west" for helping them fight smoking...

Iran: West taints cigarettes with pig blood

Quote

TEHRAN, Iran — Cigarettes smuggled into Iran have been tainted with pig blood and nuclear material as part of a Western conspiracy, an Iran official claimed Friday.

The semiofficial Mehr news agency quoted Mohammad Reza Madani from the Society for Fighting Smoking as saying contraband Marlboros have been contaminated with pig hemoglobin and unspecified nuclear material.

Madani claimed Philip Morris International, which sells Marlboro outside the U.S., is "led by Zionists" and deliberately exports tainted cigarettes. Pig products are considered unclean under Muslim law.

He provided no evidence or information about the confiscated cigarettes. Friday's report also gave no details on how the alleged contamination was discovered.

Tehran, which often alleges Western conspiracies, says 20 billion cigarettes are smuggled into Iran every year.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

In hindsight you could have seen it coming and slowy reduced the supply reducing the liklihood of their ability to attack you, but instantly removing oils supply from an expanding, violent, oil dependant nation only asked for them to attack you, just like sluaghtering the families of people that are innocent in the name on profit and power ( freedom and liberty) is only asking them to attack you also.

You're hilarious this weekend. The notion that America forced Japan to war against everything in the Pacific, including your family, is about the clearest proof yet on your lack of rational perspective on the subject of the US.

WTF would you expect anyone to keep supplying capacity to someone you expect to soon attack? That's about as retarded as giving Hitler the Sudetenland.

[happythoughts 0]

Indian_Rebellion_of_1857

Quote

The final spark was provided by the reaction of Company officers to the controversy over the ammunition for new Pattern 1853 Enfield Rifle. To load the new rifle, the sepoys had to bite the cartridge open. It was believed that the paper cartridges that were standard issue with the rifle were greased with lard (pork fat) which was regarded as unclean by Muslims, or tallow (beef fat), regarded as anathema to Hindus

So, old technique. 150 years old.

[falxori 0]

Quote

Just because you don't have a clue does not mean that it is not true! Same applies to others that responded thus far in this thread ridiculing Iranians and Muslims.

There are animal byproducts in pretty much everything we consume.
The only thing I ridicule is this:

Quote

"led by Zionists" and deliberately exports tainted cigarettes

not to mention the "unspecified nuclear material"

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[rhys 0]

Quote

You're hilarious this weekend. The notion that America forced Japan to war against everything in the Pacific, including your family, is about the clearest proof yet on your lack of rational perspective on the subject of the US.

So you suggest the the Japanese attack in the oil rich dutch indies had nothing to do with the withdrwal of US and British oil supply to Japan? and/or the US never supplied oil to japan while knowing the japanese were invading other territories in Aisia

Had the Japanese not been allowed to advance earlier they may never have been in the position to attack indo, and therefore the USA and Britain played a role in the japanese armys growth and advance in the time.

A lot of shit went down between WW1 and WW2 but those 2 wars steal the limelight.

meanwhile there were some greedy cunts making a serious killing (pun intended) just like we have today, but do you think we would learn?

The dutch indies were probably on the japanese list of places to attack anyway as the oil supply that the the dutch (shell) had there was immense. Oil is necessar.y as you all well know with war so the japanese were essentially forced to get their oil elsewhere.

That is my understanding of the regon of the time but history books can be vague and skewed due to the nature of the events at the time, and like any subject, we cannot beleive that everything we are told is absoulutely correct, and that is why we discuss them.

You can correct me, and I will reseach what you say, but it my understanding that the USA knew well what the japanese were up to, and much of japans advance pre world war 2 was enabled by the supply of Oil from USA and Britain?

you are free to discuss this subject, but if you simply want to attack me then that is O.K. as well, I'm used to it.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

So you suggest the the Japanese attack in the oil rich dutch indies had nothing to do with the withdrwal of US and British oil supply to Japan? and/or the US never supplied oil to japan while knowing the japanese were invading other territories in Aisia

No, I'm not suggesting. I'm declaring flat out that the Japanese attacked because they had their own version of Manifest Destiny and they were determined to get their share of the colonial loot. They were late to the party, but having built up their might like any other power of that time, they felt entitled to catch up.

[rhys 0]

Quote

No, I'm not suggesting. I'm declaring flat out that the Japanese attacked because they had their own version of Manifest Destiny and they were determined to get their share of the colonial loot. They were late to the party, but having built up their might like any other power of that time, they felt entitled to catch up.

With whos energy/oil and recources do you suggest they built up thier might with?

there is no oil in Japan...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

No, I'm not suggesting. I'm declaring flat out that the Japanese attacked because they had their own version of Manifest Destiny and they were determined to get their share of the colonial loot. They were late to the party, but having built up their might like any other power of that time, they felt entitled to catch up.

With whos energy/oil and recources do you suggest they built up thier might with?

there is no oil in Japan...

Considering that most of the Imperial Navy ran on coal fired boilers as did most Japanese industry.... do you have a wee bit of a CLUE about why they took Manchuria in 1931???

How about the invasion of China.... ooops.. again massive COAL reserves.



From Wiki

Manchuria was (and is) an important region for its rich mineral and coal reserves

[kelpdiver 2]

no, no, no, it's our fault. Just like everything else.

Most people here blame Obama, Bush, or Clinton for the world's problems. Rhys simplifies it and blames us all for every problem in the world, even before the country became a superpower.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

no, no, no, it's our fault. Just like everything else.

Most people here blame Obama, Bush, or Clinton for the world's problems. Rhys simplifies it and blames us all for every problem in the world, even before the country became a superpower.

I do believe someone does have a case of the red ass blame America for all the things wrong in their perfect little world.

The problem with the wet pant leg and puddle crowd is that their countries need to step up and protect themselves because they sure as hell do not want the US doing it.

Personally I am good with that.... I am sick to death of seeing dead young americans while millions of turd blossoms sit around strokin themselves off and slamming those young people who are protecting their way of life that they have become accustomed to from contries that do not have the same value system they do.

[rhys 0]

Quote

Considering that most of the Imperial Navy ran on coal fired boilers as did most Japanese industry.... do you have a wee bit of a CLUE about why they took Manchuria in 1931???

How about the invasion of China.... ooops.. again massive COAL reserves.

You just go on kidding yourself, and from texas you would think you would know more about the history of oil, it's importance, its role in conflict etc. but nah you want to believe you fight for freedom and democracy don't you, haha.

you can litter the streets with tons of shiny red white and blue ribbons now your troops are coming home, Victory or Defeat? and for what?

Cheap oil?

http://www.americanforeignrelations.com/O-W/Oil-Oil-and-world-power.html

Quote

Obtaining access to oil was also a key factor behind Japan's decision to attack the United States. By the end of the 1930s, Japan was dependent on the United States for 80 percent of its oil needs. Most of the rest came from the Netherlands East Indies, where Shell and the Standard-Vacuum Oil Company, a jointly owned subsidiary of Standard Oil (New Jersey) and Socony-Vacuum, controlled production. The Netherlands East Indies possessed the largest reserves in East Asia, and control over its oil would go a long way toward meeting Japan's oil needs. On the other hand, seizing the Netherlands East Indies would lead to conflict with Great Britain and the United States. Nevertheless, the Japanese chose this course after the United States, Britain, and the Netherlands imposed an oil embargo on Japan in the late summer of 1941 in response to Japan's decision to take control of all Indochina.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

Quote

Rhys simplifies it and blames us all for every problem in the world, even before the country became a superpower.

You need to learn a little more about your own history, you were a super power at the start of the 1900's Oil was increasingly important from the 1920's onward, bythe end of the 1930's usa supplied japan 80% of its oil.

So leading up to that for a significant proportion of time this had been an ongoing thing.
A large percentage of your oil reserves wen't into wars that did not need to happen.

I don't blame anyone in particular, I beleive all human beings have these same attributes and it is not limited to americans. Our abiliy to control the urges that are presented to us are sometimes too difficult to control, what you or I or anyone thinks or desires has nothing to do with nation or breed, it is that we are human.


America is great, it has great people and is beautiful and it is a very significant and powerful entity, this attracts corruption like a pig to shit, and it is only that element that I oppose.
'
If you think that the said bad element is what I beleive represents your entire country and its people, then you are woefully incorrect.

When people blame 'America' for things every american takes it personally as would any nation.

You problem lies with being able to distinguish the real america from the skewed and corrupted one.

I know you do not 'want to' understand, as you are so proud of your nation that you will not accept that it is run(heavily pursuaded) by corrupt criminals seeking fortune and power, you have the implements to bring justice but you are not willing to use them, or become aware that you need to, it seems.

If ther is power money and humans involved, there is corruption, how we deal with that?...

Then 'you lot in here' spend your days joking and yarning about the corrupt ways of politics and how much of a joke it is, it is bizzare. How can you be so aware, yet not aware at all....

It is called denial!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

Quote

I do believe someone does have a case of the red ass blame America for all the things wrong in their perfect little world.

The problem with the wet pant leg and puddle crowd is that their countries need to step up and protect themselves because they sure as hell do not want the US doing it.

Quite franky your warships are not welcome in our shores, at least you nuclear powered ones, you can keep the fucking things.

You americans and your weapons, that is the joke. You are obsessed by them.

Quote

Personally I am good with that.... I am sick to death of seeing dead young americans while millions of turd blossoms sit around strokin themselves off and slamming those young people who are protecting their way of life that they have become accustomed to from contries that do not have the same value system they do.

Then get a draft going and see how long these wars last for, not very long.

As long as you have young americans that are willing to go to fight these illegal and false wars, the corporations will continue to make a profit from thier actions and deaths. The corporations also get to keep pumping that oil without paying for it.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

As long as you have young americans that are willing to go to fight these illegal and false wars, the corporations will continue to make a profit from thier actions and deaths.

And what companies would those be, rhys? Cite, please, with proof of the profits you claim they're getting.

Quote

The corporations also get to keep pumping that oil without paying for it.

Gonna need some proof on this one, too.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rhys 0]

Quote

And what companies would those be, rhys? Cite, please, with proof of the profits you claim they're getting.

If you take your (collosal) annual military spending and work your way backwards through the contractors you will answer your own question.

Those bullets, bombs, grenades, uniforms, tanks, hummers, ships, airplaines helecopters ... all come from somewhere don't they, you don't need me to spell it out for you, you know well about this subject.

The secret projects over there with all the private security contracts and secrecy going on, would never have anything to do with oil and oil supply would it.

because freedom and democracy is what you were there for wasn't it?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mnealtx 0]

Ah, so your usual conspiracy bullshit, vague reasoning and no concrete proof or answers.

Don't know why I expected differently.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

Quote

You just go on kidding yourself, and from texas you would think you would know more about the history of oil, it's importance, its role in conflict etc. but nah you want to believe you fight for freedom and democracy don't you, haha.

you can litter the streets with tons of shiny red white and blue ribbons now your troops are coming home, Victory or Defeat? and for what?

Wrong ASSumption about where I am from ( WAY OFF) there thwop thwop thwopter guy.

The fact remains had not the USA fought the Japanese in WWII and sacrificed thousands of our young peoples lives since then, this world would be a completely different one today. Do you REALLLY believe you and your little country would be the same without the USA that drew a HUGE line in the Pacific, that other more agressive countries have not crossed? You can try to deny your freedom to spout your usual retoric owes anything to that, but you can delude yourself all you like, reality falls somewhere else and its not on the conspiracy theory sites you love so much.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I don't blame anyone in particular, I beleive all human beings have these same attributes and it is not limited to americans. Our abiliy to control the urges that are presented to us are sometimes too difficult to control, what you or I or anyone thinks or desires has nothing to do with nation or breed, it is that we are human.

....
Then 'you lot in here' spend your days joking and yarning about the corrupt ways of politics and how much of a joke it is, it is bizzare. How can you be so aware, yet not aware at all....

It is called denial!

So which is it, Rhys? Are humans fallible, or is there some evil unifying force? You're trying to straddle a pretty big valley here.