I'm becoming an atheist

[Andy9o8 0]

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What assumptions do you think science is based on?

The assumption that what is not yet scientifically proven, can be scientifically proven.

First of all, you slightly misstate the assumption, and that naturally gives it a certain bias.

More properly expressed, the assumption is that that which exists in the physical universe in all likelihood can eventually be scientifically proven by a sufficiently advanced species (and/or the collective efforts, progress and knowledge of multiple advanced species) with sufficiently advanced technology and sufficiently advanced foundational knowledge.

It certainly more logical than the silly assumption that that which is not yet scientifically proven by Earth humans in 2010 might never be scientifically proven, and thus it might have a supernatural origin or aspect.

[jakee 1,255]

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This is indeed the word of God...If it was the word of man, it would say what we want it to say. How can any of this be the word of man when man cannot even understand? Yet it can be preceived by the senses...

You have an incredibly odd standard of proof there.

Do you have any idea how many schools of philosophy there are which advocate living or behaving in a way that is not the easiest or most superficially appealing (never mind how many philosophical works are damn near impossible to decipher)?

Are they all divinely inspired?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,255]

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No There are people here who everything seems to go over there head or they go out of there way to focus on what they can pick apart so they can feel smart. It’s an Ego thing I think they need to feel special.
So they twist and turn to miss the point.

And how does that apply in this case? There are atheists in foxholes, both literally and figuratively. You say it is a "very true" statement, but it is not true - and you know it's not true.

Why on earth do you think you should be able to represent false platitudes as valid arguments without someone calling you on it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreece 190]

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I understand it can seem offensive, but it is most offensive to those who don't want to deal with their sin. It's like how most people deal with problems, they just pretend it's not there...very convenient.

Well, here is one example.

Well, there is nothing I can do about that one, and I can never apologize for it.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[DocPop 1]

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"And straightway He constrained His disciples to get into the ship, and to go to the other side....” Mark vi. 45-52.

In your posts you continue to quote the bible as though it is some sort of proof and will convince non-believers that they are wrong. You really should realize that to us [non-believers], the bible is a work of fiction and as such provides no evidence.

You might as well try to convince people that wizards exist by quoting from the Harry Potter books.

Try to free your mind a little and question just how brainwashed you have become.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Darius11 12]

In science what you know now can change as we make a new discovery. We have scientist say they have a formula of how the universe works until they find something that they did not know about.

I am all for science and discovery, however I think we tend to think we know much more then we actually do. You have faith that science will have all the answers, and I believe science will never have all the answers.

Something can not come from nothing. So when you break it all down we still don’t know where that thing that started it all came from or how it came to be.
Now you might have an issue with how religion attempts to explain things that is understandable. However I don’t think you can just as easily write off the idea of a creator.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Coreece 190]

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This is indeed the word of God...If it was the word of man, it would say what we want it to say. How can any of this be the word of man when man cannot even understand? Yet it can be preceived by the senses...

You have an incredibly odd standard of proof there.

allow me to rephrase:

This is indeed the Word of God...

I don't want to give you proof...I would love for you to have faith and see for yourself. I just don't know how God is gonna do that for you, but all things are possible.

Maybe the first step is to see that God is evident in creation...Why do you have to feel you're beyond that. If you were in fact supressing that truth, what is it that you would consider the reason for that supression?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[RonD1120 58]

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Try to free your mind a little and question just how brainwashed you have become.

First, you are referring to someone else's posting. Second, try to free your prejudice and understand I don't care what people believe.

I only share what worked for me. Take it or leave it.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

OOPS! I apologize. That Scripture was in the Chambers quote.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Andy9o8 0]

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In science what you know now can change as we make a new discovery. We have scientist say they have a formula of how the universe works until they find something that they did not know about.

I am all for science and discovery, however I think we tend to think we know much more then we actually do. You have faith that science will have all the answers, and I believe science will never have all the answers.

Something can not come from nothing. So when you break it all down we still don’t know where that thing that started it all came from or how it came to be.
Now you might have an issue with how religion attempts to explain things that is understandable. However I don’t think you can just as easily write off the idea of a creator.

If you believe that "science never has all the answers", that's because
. a) You're taking the limited view of "science" as meaning the science of Earth species homo sapiens at said species' current state of developmental evolution, and
. b) You use the time concept of "never" because the universe has already grown so vast, and the amount of sheer time it would take all species in the universe (now or to exist in the future) to learn everything about the physical universe is also so vast as to be incomprehensible - thus, it is expressed with the label "never".

You say "something cannot come from nothing". Well, it may very well be that something can come from nothing, or maybe it cannot, but the answer to that is simply beyond Earth humans in 2010 or the near future, or may even be completely beyond the understanding of our species however long it exists. To put it another way, we don't know what we don't know.

How can people easily write off the possibility of an actual supernatural Creator? Simple - by not engaging in the non-sequitur of presuming that that which is not presently understood might therefore have a supernatural origin.

By the way, I notice you use the singular "creator" and not the plural "creators". How very monotheistic of you. It's a textbook example of how people's core presumptions when they are adults are hard-wired by a lifetime of social indoctrination.

[maadmax 0]

atheistic rhetoric is always the same, "My beliefs are better than your beliefs, therefore I should tell you what is good for your own sake."

Laughable to say the least
I'm sorry, but isn't that just a description of the entire Christian religion?

I wonder why you're so devoted to something you think is laughable...

[klafollette 0]

How can you definitively say that something cannot come from nothing? Do you have proof of that? You have to define the context of the nothingness. Nothing in this universe may be something in another universe. We just can't see it from here.

In 2 dimensional space, there is no "up/down". You have X and Y axis, but Z axis is unobservable in 2 dimensions, and would appear to be "nothing". But for us living in 3 dimensional space, the Z axis is where we have so much fun. It exists for us.

[jakee 1,255]

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allow me to rephrase:

This is indeed the Word of God...

Then I shall rephrase in turn: No it's not. It's the Word of Some Old Dead Human Bloke.

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I don't want to give you proof

No, you were simply demonstrating the levels of cod-logic you are willing to sink to in order to support things that you want to be true.

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Maybe the first step is to see that God is evident in creation

Except... it's not.

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If you were in fact supressing that truth, what is it that you would consider the reason for that supression?

What would you consider the reason for your wilfull delusion?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Darius11 12]

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By the way, I notice you use the singular "creator" and not the plural "creators". How very monotheistic of you. It's a textbook example of how people's core presumptions when they are adults are hard-wired by a lifetime of social indoctrination.

I think your adding your own assumption there and putting way to much in too a word having "s" at the end of it or not.

But if we don't know we don't know. you cant say we dont know then at the same time claim that you do know.

The reality is the any thing is possible.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[jakee 1,255]

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atheistic rhetoric is always the same, "My beliefs are better than your beliefs, therefore I should tell you what is good for your own sake."

Laughable to say the least
I'm sorry, but isn't that just a description of the entire Christian religion?

I wonder why you're so devoted to something you think is laughable...

No it is a description of the human condition. We are all in the same type of boat just different captains and different destinations.

[Andy9o8 0]

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if we don't know we don't know. you cant say we dont know then at the same time claim that you do know.

You're misstating what I've said. Re-read; answer what I've said if you wish (or not); but please don't mis-quote me.

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The reality is the any thing is possible.

No. The reality is that anything can be conceived of by the imagination; but that doesn't make the supernatural possible.

[Darius11 12]

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How can you definitively say that something cannot come from nothing?

I can't but using standards of science like energy never gets destroyed but only changes form. So if you’re using the science ideas then there is some holes lots of them.

The point or I should say my point is that it is just as blind for a religious person to say "yep I am 100% sure I know what will happen" as it is for someone to say " there can be no god because we have the big bang theory".

That’s the point. No one knows and none of your arguments have any more merit then someone who believes we were created by smerfs.

As much as we know we simply do not know enough.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[maadmax 0]

So you happily describe your own beliefs as 'laughable'. Unexpected.

[DanG 1]

Something from nothing:

http://science.jrank.org/pages/7195/Virtual-Particles.html

Happens all the time.

- Dan G

[Darius11 12]

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No. The reality is that anything can be conceived of by the imagination; but that doesn't make the supernatural possible.

I don’t think I am misquoting you.

Here you go again. You even knowing we simply don’t know enough are ready to rule out the “supernatural”

By the way the reason that’s in quotes is because I don’t think something is “supernatural” just because it does not follow the physical rules we have set.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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Something from nothing:

http://science.jrank.org/pages/7195/Virtual-Particles.html

Happens all the time.

Once again blind faith in science. There was a time where they were sure atoms were the building blocks of every thing, and there were people like you who just took it as gospel.

Now we know there is smaller particles, and even dark matter which does not interact with us in any way even though it is all around us. Once they figure that out that will be what we know and are sure of until we have the technology to see something else.


Just because we don'y know where spmething came from doesn't mean it came from no where.
The humane Ego loves to think we have figuerd it out but we are not even close.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Coreece 190]

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If you were in fact supressing that truth, what is it that you would consider the reason for that supression?

What would you consider the reason for your wilfull delusion?

[DanG 1]

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Once again blind faith in science. There was a time where they were sure atoms were the building blocks of every thing, and there were people like you who just took it as gospel.

There's a big difference in blind faith, and faith based on experimental evidence. Religious people have blind faith. Science is based on the latter. I think if you looked at the historical documents, it would be hard to find a scientist who declared after a discovery that they had everything figured out, and that there was nothing left to learn. In other words, when they discovered (and demonstrated) the existence of atoms, no one said, "Okay guys, pack up the labs, nothing more to discover." Scientific minds are open to conitual learning and discovery. It is religions that declare they know it all and there is no more truth to be had.

Anyway, I posted the link in rebuttal to your argument up-thread that something can't come from nothing. I've shown that to be false, so you need to come up with a different argument to base your (blind) belief in the supernatural on.

- Dan G

[jakee 1,255]

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So now all of a sudden you don't wanna answer a question?

That's because if you've never beaten your wife there is no answer to the question "When did you stop beating your wife".

So, "If I was suppressing the truth, what is the reason?" How the fuck should I know? Since I'm not suppressing 'The Truth' I really have absolutely no idea what would hypothetically make me suppress that hypothetical truth if it actually existed and if I was actually suppressing it.


But, if you really think the question is a good one, why don't you show me how to answer it - What would you consider the reason for your wilfull delusion?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 0]

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if you've never beaten your wife there is no answer to the question "When did you stop beating your wife".

Sure there is: when she makes me a goddam sammich.
I know, take it to Bonfire.