Please help re Glen Beck

[kallend 1,654]

Quote

Are you saying that a cap and trade scheme in the US will result in lower global temps?

Nope. It will move the heat balance in the right direction but won't correct it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,654]

Quote

At first I thought that billvon and kallend were worthy antagonists in a substantive debate; but after the last few posts I felt cheated . Apparently you lack the intellectual gravitas I gave you credit for.

To break it down would be tedious; but if you want me to I will.

Irony score 10/10

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[brenthutch 388]

Thanks kallend I thought I would have to elaborate, but you just did.

[jgoose71 0]

Quote

>So what your saying is you want to give 60% of your earning to the
>government?

Nope! You completely missed the point.

No, I got the point. Why don't you convince me that after Cap and Trade go through and the VAT gets thrown on us that we won't be paying European prices for everything. Then convince me that our industries will still be able to compete with China and India.

Government and Social Programs are paid for by taxes on the private sector. The private sector is fueled by industry and being able to produce and sell goods.

You made a big deal about all the miners loosing their lives, which is a great argument, but now it seems you are willing to sacrifice their livelihoods.

This is the barrier you need to break down to get us conservative types on board.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[rushmc 18]

Nice try

Some may have been insdustrial acidents. I dont know
As for those you may say died from the buring of coal ?That is another story

You do like to confuse issues to save your points thoght dont you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jumpwally 0]

.....far from a whack job,,,,,,salesman and a good one,,,,he is never to far from the truth

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[brenthutch 388]

Quote

Nice try

Some may have been insdustrial acidents. I dont know
As for those you may say died from the buring of coal ?That is another story

You do like to confuse issues to save your points thoght dont you

I have to disagree with you on this rushmc, I think that he honestly doesn’t know the difference

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

Nice try

Some may have been insdustrial acidents. I dont know
As for those you may say died from the buring of coal ?That is another story

You do like to confuse issues to save your points thoght dont you

I have to disagree with you on this rushmc, I think that he honestly doesn’t know the difference

That could be too

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[brenthutch 388]

Here is an article summing up what he was claiming.

[brenthutch 388]

Quote

Here is an article summing up what he was claiming.

Sorry here is the link

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=531731

[DanG 1]

There's nothing of any substance regarding cap and trade in that article. It just talks about some of the people who have invested in a voluntary cap and trade market, and implies that each of them is a baddie. All fluff, no meat.

Do you have any substantive objections, or is it just, "Gore and Obama like it, and Glen Beck tells me its bad?"

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

Quote

There's nothing of any substance regarding cap and trade in that article. It just talks about some of the people who have invested in a voluntary cap and trade market, and implies that each of them is a baddie. All fluff, no meat.

Do you have any substantive objections, or is it just, "Gore and Obama like it, and Glen Beck tells me its bad?"

All fluff and no meat?

OOoooohhhhhh

Kind of like the AGW alarmists and the IPCC?

I get it now

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Did you read the linked article? It's really short, and no big words.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Did you read the linked article? It's really short, and no big words.

No! I get it thanks
You will some day too

but you will have to adopt a different religion at that time

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[brenthutch 388]

My objections is: If cap and trade is put into law, it will no longer be voluntary. The money that should be going to improving our schools, roads, and cities will be lining the pockets of Goldman Sachs, Al Gore, Franklin Rains (sp?) and their cronies.

[DanG 1]

Quote

My objections is: If cap and trade is put into law, it will no longer be voluntary. The money that should be going to improving our schools, roads, and cities will be lining the pockets of Goldman Sachs, Al Gore, Franklin Rains (sp?) and their cronies.

You've really lost me. I'm not sure how shcools, roads, and cities got into the debate.

As I see it there are three choices:
1. Carbon is not a problem, carbon producers should be allowed to pump as much as they want into the atmosphere.
2. Carbon is a problem, we should regulate it, but not through cap and trade.
3. Carbon is a problem, we should regulate it through cap and trade.

Is there a fourth choice that I don't see? If so, what is it? If not, which choice above do you fall under?

- Dan G

[brenthutch 388]

Choice 4

Carbon is not a problem but Al Gore and company should make billions of dollars by selling carbon credits anyway.

[DanG 1]

Quote

Carbon is not a problem but Al Gore and company should make billions of dollars by selling carbon credits anyway.

That's choice 1 (just spun to get a dig in).

So if you don't think carbon is a problem, and shouldn't be regulated/taxed/controlled, what were you talking about when you said cap and trade would take money that should be going to schools, roads, and cities, and giving it to Al Gore, et al.?

Are you just saying that if you don't make businesses pay for carbon output they will make a larger profit and then pay more in taxes? I'm tired of guessing what you're thinking. Help me out here.

- Dan G

[brenthutch 388]

The private sector is the only one that creates wealth. All public sector expenses (schools roads ect) are paid by taxing the private sector. Cap and trade will hurt the private sector, and cost jobs and thus tax revenue.

[brenthutch 388]

That is NOT choice number 1.
1 would be my choice but 4 is what is about to be foisted upon us.