brenthutch 388 #1 April 27, 2010 With regards to tonight’s show, could somebody please refute Beck's assertions? Yes I know that he is a crazy, asshole and a racist and a homophobe and I know he hates poor people., but on a factual basis, where was he wrong on the whole cap and trade scheme? Where are the lies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #2 April 27, 2010 Are we supposed to know what he said? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #3 April 27, 2010 I haven't watched that guy in quite awhile(6 months+) but somehow I managed to see that segment.... He actually gave me a good idea for a news show that would list facts and refernces so that we wouldn't have to ask the peeps at dropzone.com. He always looks and talks like he's teaching a bunch if 1st graders with that stupid chalk board... Baby Beck, comming soon on Disney DVD...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,436 #4 April 27, 2010 >could somebody please refute Beck's assertions? What were they? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #5 April 27, 2010 QuoteWhat were they? I was half sleeping, but is sounded like O'bama is in kahoots with Al Gore, Bill Ayers brother and Goldman Sachs to sky rocket the price of electricity creating a 10 trillion $$$ market from which only they would benefit. EDIT ...but I could've been dreaming...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,436 #6 April 27, 2010 >I was half sleeping, but is sounded like O'bama is in kahoots with Al >Gore, Bill Ayers brother and Goldman Sachs to sky rocket the price of >electricity creating a 10 trillion $$$ market from which only they would >benefit. Yes we know that Obama/Gore/Ayers are crazy asshole liar socialists but on a factual basis - did he actually present any information? Or was it just a long string of character attacks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #7 April 27, 2010 Quotedid he actually present any information? He showed a video snipit of Obama saying that the cap and trade would skyrocket the price of electricty...than he cut back to his stupid chalk board and I fell back asleep...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #8 April 27, 2010 QuoteQuotedid he actually present any information? He showed a video snipit of Obama saying that the cap and trade would skyrocket the price of electricty...than he cut back to his stupid chalk board and I fell back asleep... I think the best part of your story was the sleep. At least you were alone with your thoughts instead of being brainwashed with extremist garbage. Perhaps not a good idea to fall asleep with that show on.....subliminal messaging. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #9 April 27, 2010 Quote I think the best part of your story was the sleep. At least you were alone with your thoughts instead of being brainwashed with extremist garbage. Perhaps not a good idea to fall asleep with that show on.....subliminal messaging. no worries here...Mark 4:35-40.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 388 #10 April 27, 2010 Yes I know extremists garbage, yada yada yada, but where are the lies? Are the connections he asserts untrue? He is clearly a whack job so it should be easy to debunk him without resorting to ad hominem attacks. On a factual basis, where is he wrong? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,436 #11 April 27, 2010 >He is clearly a whack job so it should be easy to debunk him without >resorting to ad hominem attacks. Now that's irony. You diss people who resort to ad hominem attacks in defense of an ad hominem attack by Glen Beck? Here's a challenge - list your objections (or even Beck's objections) to cap and trade without a single ad hominem attack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #12 April 27, 2010 Quote Yes I know extremists garbage, yada yada yada, but where are the lies? Are the connections he asserts untrue? He is clearly a whack job so it should be easy to debunk him without resorting to ad hominem attacks. On a factual basis, where is he wrong? The problem is he is not wrong. The way Cap and Trade works is you are assigned a certain amount of "Carbon Credits" you are allowed to use. If you exceed your limit, you are fined. You can purchase more if you need them, but it will cost you. The costs of "extra carbon" will get passed to you, the consumer, further killing any industry left in America. All Gore, the folks at GE, and a few of their friends will get rich trading in "Carbon Credits", Gas companies will have to jack their prices up to $9 a gallon, just like in Europe, and it will all come out of your pocket. The only thing that can really be said positive about Cap and Trade is that it may encourage people to use less fossil fuels. But if the technology isn't there yet, your screwed. If only global warming was real...."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #13 April 27, 2010 QuoteYes I know extremists garbage, yada yada yada, but where are the lies? Are the connections he asserts untrue? He is clearly a whack job so it should be easy to debunk him without resorting to ad hominem attacks. On a factual basis, where is he wrong? No one has yet to post an assertion of his for anyone to debunk; would you like to be the first? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #14 April 27, 2010 QuoteIf only global warming was real.... Just as you cannot find any GWB voters, most of the bumper sticker long scraped off, if global warming is real and catastrophy occurs you won't be able to find any, 'global warming is BS' type people. Everyone will suddenly become retroactively green. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #15 April 27, 2010 Cap & Trade seems to work well for SO2 emissions. Of course, the right wouldn't whine about that since Saint Ronald Reagan had a big hand in implementing it. www.epa.gov/AIRMARKET/cap-trade/docs/ctresults.pdf www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=1085... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 388 #16 April 27, 2010 See jgoose71's post. But let me ask you, what do you like about cap and trade? How much will the temps go down when our electric bills "necessarily skyrocket" Do you understand the concept of opportunity costs? If not you are not alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #17 April 27, 2010 Cap and trade treats carbon emmissions as a commodity. It's like freaking orange juice. You want more, you buy more from others who want less. It is as pure as capitalism can get. Why do you hate capitalism? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 388 #18 April 27, 2010 Will it "save the planet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #19 April 27, 2010 QuoteCap and trade treats carbon emmissions as a commodity. It's like freaking orange juice. You want more, you buy more from others who want less. It is as pure as capitalism can get. Who hands out the credits? The govt? Thats not capitalism. Thats just another way for the Govt to take our money and spend more in the form of another tax. That is NOT capitalism!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #20 April 27, 2010 Who said it would save the planet? Really, I'm asking for a specific person who claimed that cap and trade's goal is to "save the planet". I doubt anyone in any position of authority has actually made that statement. It sounds to me like something Beck would claim a supporter said just to make them sound loony. Cap and trade will help reduce carbon emmissions. It will be good for the ecology of the planet (not "save the planet"), and also good for the long term economy and energy independence of the US. That's enough for me. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #21 April 27, 2010 QuoteWho hands out the credits? The govt? Thats not capitalism. Thats just another way for the Govt to take our money and spend more in the form of another tax. That is NOT capitalism! The way the plan should be implemented, in my opinion, is that a defined number of carbon credits will be auctioned off to the highest bidder. Those winners now own the credits, and can trade them as they wish. There would have to be anti-monopoly restrictions just like in every other industry, but the government would not "hand out" the credits. In my plan, the money raised by the auction would go directly into debt repayment. Would that satisfy your concerns? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #22 April 27, 2010 QuoteQuoteCap and trade treats carbon emmissions as a commodity. It's like freaking orange juice. You want more, you buy more from others who want less. It is as pure as capitalism can get. Who hands out the credits? The govt? Thats not capitalism. Thats just another way for the Govt to take our money and spend more in the form of another tax. That is NOT capitalism! It works for SO2, and Reagan was as capitalist as they come. Explain why it's good for SO2 and not for CO2. Is it simply the right's hatred for Al Gore?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #23 April 27, 2010 QuoteSee jgoose71's post. But let me ask you, what do you like about cap and trade? How much will the temps go down when our electric bills "necessarily skyrocket" Do you understand the concept of opportunity costs? If not you are not alone. Did your electricity bills skyrocket when Reagan introduced Cap & Trade for SO2 emissions?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #24 April 27, 2010 QuoteThe way the plan should be implemented, in my opinion, is that a defined number of carbon credits will be auctioned off to the highest bidder So a company would be forced to pay a tax and whoever agree's or can pay the highest wins? What about small business's that cannot afford what Dupont, Exxon/Mobil, or some other huge company is willing to pay or can afford? QuoteThose winners now own the credits, and can trade them as they wish. And you think they will just give them away at a loss? Dupont od someone can come in and buy up everything and then inflate the price to a level that a small machine shop would not be able to afford. This is such a flawed plan and will do nothing to help American workers. I would love to see how a dropzone would handle this. I wonder how much jump tickets would sky rocket just to fund cap & trade QuoteIn my plan, the money raised by the auction would go directly into debt repayment. Would that satisfy your concerns? No! The gov't cutting spending and stop offering every Dick Tom and Harry a free ride or some new entitlement would satisfy my concerns.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #25 April 27, 2010 Quote No! The gov't cutting spending and stop offering every Dick Tom and Harry a free ride or some new entitlement would satisfy my concerns. Which programs do you consider entitlements? Unemployment insurance (for which workers pay premiums)? Social Security, for which workers pay FICA? Medicare, for which workers pay dedicated taxes? Cutting the defense budget by 50% would still leave us the most powerful nation in the history of the world and would save a bundle.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
