21 Arrested at SHOT

[1969912 0]

Looks like the charges will be related to bribery/kickbacks on foreign sales.

"WASHINGTON -- Twenty-two executives and employees at suppliers to the military and law enforcement agencies were arrested on the eve of their industry's annual trade show in Las Vegas after a 2 1/2-year undercover sting operation aimed at schemes to bribe a foreign official.

The Justice Department called the case the largest single investigation and prosecution of individuals in the history of the 1977 Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which bars bribery of foreign government officials. It also is the first large-scale use of an undercover operation in enforcing the corrupt practices act..."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/19/fbi-sting-nabs-people-suspected-bribing-foreign-officials/

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[AggieDave 6]

No names or company names in the article...that's too bad, I would have liked to have known.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[1969912 0]

Look at the FBI page here: http://washingtondc.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel10/wfo011910.htm

It looks like the only firearm mfr. involved was S&W. Their VP for sales was arrested: http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/01/smith_wesson_vice_president_of.html

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[captain1976 0]

Typical of US Government Agents. Making a case through fraud and deception (sting). This kind of shit is never allowed by European Governments and simply keeps this garage we call Agents in jobs. What a useless bunch of vermin not fit to wipe our ass on.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[1969912 0]

It looks like most involved were makers/suppliers of tactical gear and armor.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[AggieDave 6]

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It looks like most involved were makers/suppliers of tactical gear and armor.

I'm not "plugged in" enough to know what the names are on the FBI page, I googled around a little bit and didn't find a list of the company names. I have no real personal interest, except that I have spent and spend money with those sorts of manufactures.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[1969912 0]

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It looks like most involved were makers/suppliers of tactical gear and armor.

I'm not "plugged in" enough to know what the names are on the FBI page, I googled around a little bit and didn't find a list of the company names. I have no real personal interest, except that I have spent and spend money with those sorts of manufactures.

I'm not plugged in either. I just looked at the descriptions of the items made by the vendors, and only one said something about manufacturing firearms, so I googled his name. There could be more gun mfr's. involved.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[AggieDave 6]

So far it looks like they were arrested before the SHOT show and the only thing that involved the SHOT show is that they were all going to be there. All of the sting operation was done independent of the SHOT show. The accused were arrested there, the sting wasn't conducted there.

Protective Products (never heard of them) and the one VP from S&W are the only company names I've seen so far.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[1969912 0]

Yeah, it was a logistically convenient place to make the arrests. More importantly, it was probably a politically convenient place. Biggest gun show in the US.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[AggieDave 6]

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More importantly, it was probably a politically convenient place.

More importantly? I would say that it was most importantly politically, at least to those who would want to try to further restrict our constitutional rights.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[1969912 0]

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More importantly, it was probably a politically convenient place.

More importantly? I would say that it was most importantly politically, at least to those who would want to try to further restrict our constitutional rights.

Yes.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[kallend 1,683]

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Yeah, it was a logistically convenient place to make the arrests. More importantly, it was probably a politically convenient place. Biggest gun show in the US.

Nice spin.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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Yeah, it was a logistically convenient place to make the arrests. More importantly, it was probably a politically convenient place. Biggest gun show in the US.

Nice spin.

Yes, that *is* probably the reason why they did the arrests at SHOT - political spin.

Hell, Smith and Wesson probably thought it was business as usual, after their deal with the Clinton-era HUD.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 1,683]

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Yeah, it was a logistically convenient place to make the arrests. More importantly, it was probably a politically convenient place. Biggest gun show in the US.

Nice spin.

Yes, that *is* probably the reason why they did the arrests at SHOT - political spin.

Hell, Smith and Wesson probably thought it was business as usual, after their deal with the Clinton-era HUD.

Still suffering from CDS? Clinton is SO 1990s.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[1969912 0]

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Yeah, it was a logistically convenient place to make the arrests. More importantly, it was probably a politically convenient place. Biggest gun show in the US.

Nice spin.

Yes, that *is* probably the reason why they did the arrests at SHOT - political spin.

Hell, Smith and Wesson probably thought it was business as usual, after their deal with the Clinton-era HUD.

And very likely why they went after sellers of that kind of goods. Two-year sting operation going after bidders on a $15 million contract. This wasn't an effort to simply nail violators of the FCPA. Guns likely had a lot to do with it. Funny that almost all violators were selling ammo bags, body armor, and tactical clothing. I bet they would have discovered more contract irregularities if they'd investigated all the sales that seem to have put most US cops in gear that makes them look like wannabe SWAT TV show stars.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Gene03 0]

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Yeah, it was a logistically convenient place to make the arrests. More importantly, it was probably a politically convenient place. Biggest gun show in the US.

Nice spin.

Yes, that *is* probably the reason why they did the arrests at SHOT - political spin.

Hell, Smith and Wesson probably thought it was business as usual, after their deal with the Clinton-era HUD.

And very likely why they went after sellers of that kind of goods. Two-year sting operation going after bidders on a $15 million contract. This wasn't an effort to simply nail violators of the FCPA. Guns likely had a lot to do with it. Funny that almost all violators were selling ammo bags, body armor, and tactical clothing. I bet they would have discovered more contract irregularities if they'd investigated all the sales that seem to have put most US cops in gear that makes them look like wannabe SWAT TV show stars.

Somehow the term posse comatatis(sp?) "power of the county" comes to mind here.

Just can't remember why.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[jakee 1,280]

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Typical of US Government Agents. Making a case through fraud and deception (sting). This kind of shit is never allowed by European Governments and simply keeps this garage we call Agents in jobs. What a useless bunch of vermin not fit to wipe our ass on.

For sure, this kind of small fry wouldn't even be on the radar. When we go for bribery in defence contracts, we go for billions and then spend our time trying to cover it up, not prosecute it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

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Yeah, it was a logistically convenient place to make the arrests. More importantly, it was probably a politically convenient place. Biggest gun show in the US.

Nice spin.

Yes, that *is* probably the reason why they did the arrests at SHOT - political spin.

Hell, Smith and Wesson probably thought it was business as usual, after their deal with the Clinton-era HUD.

Still suffering from CDS? Clinton is SO 1990s.

Kind of like "it is Bush's" fault huh

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[captain1976 0]

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Typical of US Government Agents. Making a case through fraud and deception (sting). This kind of shit is never allowed by European Governments and simply keeps this garage we call Agents in jobs. What a useless bunch of vermin not fit to wipe our ass on.

For sure, this kind of small fry wouldn't even be on the radar. When we go for bribery in defence contracts, we go for billions and then spend our time trying to cover it up, not prosecute it.

Right you are. The criminal goings on in government area appalling and most laws that lead to prosecutions are made by grandstanding politicians.

It doesn't matter what is right or wrong anymore and I have lost all respect for the US Government.

If you add up all their crimes, it could be deemed a criminal organization much like Stalinist Russia was.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[Andy9o8 0]

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Typical of US Government Agents. Making a case through fraud and deception (sting). This kind of shit is never allowed by European Governments

Strictly speaking, almost all undercover law enforcement activities employ deception as a principal tool; and most certainly European police agencies do it, too. In the US, probably hundreds of drug busts a day are made with the participation of undercover officers posing as civilians. Ditto with illegal immigration stings, illegal sales of liquor or ciggies to minors, etc. Corruption is most definitely not unique to the US; and very frequently, it requires undercover LEO investigations to combat it.

Entrapment is an "affirmative defense" in criminal law, meaning that the defense bears the burden of proving the defense. Essentially, entrapment is when the actions of LEOs cause a person who was not otherwise inclined to commit a crime to commit that crime. Importantly, it is NOT when a defendant simply avails himself of an OPPORTUNITY presented to him to commit the crime, even when - and this is important - when the apparent opportunity-presenter is actually an undercover LEO.

In other words, if you have the chance to "just say no" to an opportunity to break the law and walk away from the deal, but instead you say "yes", and act to do so, you have NOT been "entrapped". Did the VP of S&W have a reasonable chance to just say no and walk away from the deal? Maybe yes, or maybe no. I guess the jury will have to decide that at his trial.

In the US, it is unlawful to pay bribes to get business. Those who do, contribute to and perpetuate a culture of corruption which fucks over law-abiding commerce by gaining an unlawful competitive advantage over the law-abiders. That's why it's reasonable to weed out the bribe-payers - and deter potential future bribe-payers - by nailing and prosecuting the bribe-payers. So if you're presented with a choice to either pay a bribe and win a contract, or not pay a bribe and maybe lose out to the competition - sure, you can pay the bribe - but you do so knowing you're corrupt and are committing a crime; so don't bitch when you get prosecuted for it.