kbordson 8
going to showcase my spectacular nerdiness here. 
Go read Ayn Rand, then if you want a popular, strangely out-of-place but amazingly fun criticism of her philosophy, go find and play the video game "Bioshock".
Yeah, i'm not kidding. It came out a few years ago and the basic setting is a city under the ocean, isolated from society (built in the 50s), founded on, governed by, and ultimately destroyed by Objectivism in practice.
The game developers' main argument against objectivism, and i tend to agree, is that it leaves NO ROOM for human emotion or irrationality, nor any way to deal with it when it surfaces. This is ultimately why this game-world city was destroyed...people were overcome by greed, lust for power, love, hatred, and other emotions that pure objectivism just can't handle. It's quite an interesting little thought experiment/commentary on the philosophy, wrapped in a mainstream package.
on a side note, the game demonstrated to me how the medium could be used for true social commentary, if more developers would take the step... *shrug*
Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
I appreciate your honesty. I'm clumsier than you'll ever be.
For some reason, modern "conservatism" has come to mean Jerry Fallwell. I think that's unfortunate.
I think your friend's "real American" is closer to what I consider a real American than what, say, many liberal politicians or philosophers would come up with, but as soon as you say "all real American's" you allienate so many. I say that because I believe the US was founded to promote and protect individual liberty and achievement, and that is what Rand was/is promoting. For the founders, the enemy of liberty was the tyrant, the despot. For Rand it was tyrannical government that evolved from the industrial revolution and subsequent power grabs for the sake of the "worker." These days insert any victim group in that placeholder.
Your friend is a fallen man, as we all are to some extent. Governments are made of fallen people, people who have addictions, who are tempted sexually, are greedy. You can't change the nature of man, so which do you prefer - a system where you are left to achieve or fail, make bad moral decisions, on your own, - or a system where those things occur with intrusive/coercive action from a collective of immoral people/ people who don't share your view of morality?
Rand was certainly a hard ass. I think Atlas Shrugged is worth the read. I disagree with Rand on some things, including religion and individual charity, but I do think society would be better off with her philosophy than with what we have now and the socialism we are "fast approaching."
Label me a "very small government conservative."
For some reason, modern "conservatism" has come to mean Jerry Fallwell. I think that's unfortunate.
I think your friend's "real American" is closer to what I consider a real American than what, say, many liberal politicians or philosophers would come up with, but as soon as you say "all real American's" you allienate so many. I say that because I believe the US was founded to promote and protect individual liberty and achievement, and that is what Rand was/is promoting. For the founders, the enemy of liberty was the tyrant, the despot. For Rand it was tyrannical government that evolved from the industrial revolution and subsequent power grabs for the sake of the "worker." These days insert any victim group in that placeholder.
Your friend is a fallen man, as we all are to some extent. Governments are made of fallen people, people who have addictions, who are tempted sexually, are greedy. You can't change the nature of man, so which do you prefer - a system where you are left to achieve or fail, make bad moral decisions, on your own, - or a system where those things occur with intrusive/coercive action from a collective of immoral people/ people who don't share your view of morality?
Rand was certainly a hard ass. I think Atlas Shrugged is worth the read. I disagree with Rand on some things, including religion and individual charity, but I do think society would be better off with her philosophy than with what we have now and the socialism we are "fast approaching."
Label me a "very small government conservative."
The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.
TomAiello 25
QuoteQuotegot me thinking that perhaps I don't need to read Ayn Rand.
I believe that you still should. Of her two "best" books - Fountain Head and Atlas Shrugged - I would have you lean more toward Atlas Shrugged.
I think the easiest introduction to Rand is Anthem.
nerdgirl 0
Quotegoing to showcase my spectacular nerdiness here.
Go read Ayn Rand, then if you want a popular, strangely out-of-place but amazingly fun criticism of her philosophy, go find and play the video game "Bioshock".
Yeah, i'm not kidding. It came out a few years ago and the basic setting is a city under the ocean, isolated from society (built in the 50s), founded on, governed by, and ultimately destroyed by Objectivism in practice.
The game developers' main argument against objectivism, and i tend to agree, is that it leaves NO ROOM for human emotion or irrationality, nor any way to deal with it when it surfaces. This is ultimately why this game-world city was destroyed...people were overcome by greed, lust for power, love, hatred, and other emotions that pure objectivism just can't handle. It's quite an interesting little thought experiment/commentary on the philosophy, wrapped in a mainstream package.
on a side note, the game demonstrated to me how the medium could be used for true social commentary, if more developers would take the step... *shrug*
Now that's the kind of marketing that makes me inclined to investigate whatever gaming console it is (?) that Bioshock plays on (is played on?).
/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
PC and Xbox 360 ;)
Can even download it here for 5 bucks right now:
http://www.direct2drive.com/d2dturns5
Don't get me wrong, it's still a sci-fi type shooter game, but still, the backdrop is the most intelligent i've ever seen for a game.
Can even download it here for 5 bucks right now:
http://www.direct2drive.com/d2dturns5
Don't get me wrong, it's still a sci-fi type shooter game, but still, the backdrop is the most intelligent i've ever seen for a game.
Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
DJL 232
The most lasting effect of Ayn Rand is that people try to sound smart when talking about her.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher
I believe that you still should. Of her two "best" books - Fountain Head and Atlas Shrugged - I would have you lean more toward Atlas Shrugged. It's longer and some parts are a bit more trying to get past, but it has more ... "story" and less "sell" of her philosophy. (That and I think the names Dagny and Ragnar are just kinda cool and I was amused by seeing them)
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