Finest fighting force in the world?

[mnealtx 0]

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you betcha

Not that it's the military's fault and not taht I'm trying to tangent, but how about Katrina's response?

The part where the Governor didn't ask for help and Bush got it started anyway, or the idiots that think that FEMA is actually the people doing the work and not managers for when the work force gets there?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[cliffwhite 0]

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Things to consider. Dulles is only 20 miles away from the Pentagon. Also, a missile that would follow heat would more than likely not dream of considering the Pentagon building as a heat source to lock on to.

Like I say nanook, I'm not so bright. but if chaffe and a hot flare were dropped from a c-130 just infront of the pentagon , the pentagons' own defense missle could attack the building.

Of course it could also be that the automated defense system on top of the Pentagon as well as the interceptor aircraft in the sky just couldn't stop that boeing commercial aircraft piloted by A-rabs.

Oh .., one more thing..,
Just recently the FBI has confirmed that Barbara Olsen didn't contact her husband from that aircraft.
Solicitor General Ted Olsen was on tv 9-12 -01 telling the world how his wife had called him collect from that flight wondering what she should tell the pilots to do.
There were no airphones on that particular aircraft and there is no reason to call collect from a cell phone.

Some one ain't tellin' the truth!!

Blues,
Cliff

2muchTruth

[billvon 2,433]

>Thing is ,something I do know is that if some type aircraft flew toward
> the pentagon too close for comfort the automated defense system would
>kick in.

I like it! An automated missile defense system that will shoot down anything that comes near it! I mean, sure, such a system would occasionally shoot down errant traffic helicopters, off course MD-80's and private aircraft flown by clueless pilots, but that's the price we must pay for eternal vigilance I suppose.

I wonder who got paid to hush up all the automated system tests and accidental shootdowns that have occurred over the years? Has Skynet gotten that powerful?

>but if chaffe and a hot flare were dropped from a c-130 just infront of the
> pentagon , the pentagons' own defense missle could attack the building.

I never thought about that! I could just fire a flare gun at any important government building, and its own automated missile defense system would fire missiles that would then do 180's and destroy the building for me. Cool.

I don't get the chaff thing though. Perhaps you could explain that one.

[cliffwhite 0]

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I would expect that they would always be on guard even without the knowledge that hijacked planes had been used twice3 that morning as weapons against american landmarks an hour or so earlier.

Yeah, the CG carries several HAWK missile batteries in hip pocket. He just drops them where he needs them.

It goes over REALLY well with the public, who piss their collective pants at the THOUGHT of someone with a gun.

I don't know what the hell you are talkin' about mnealtx, but do you believe the Pentagon was defenseless on 9-11-01? How about 9-10-01?

Blues,
Cliff

2muchTruth

[mnealtx 0]

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I would expect that they would always be on guard even without the knowledge that hijacked planes had been used twice3 that morning as weapons against american landmarks an hour or so earlier.

Yeah, the CG carries several HAWK missile batteries in hip pocket. He just drops them where he needs them.

It goes over REALLY well with the public, who piss their collective pants at the THOUGHT of someone with a gun.

I don't know what the hell you are talkin' about mnealtx, but do you believe the Pentagon was defenseless on 9-11-01? How about 9-10-01?

Blues,
Cliff

It's obvious you don't.... you really should quit while you're ahead.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[cliffwhite 0]

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>Thing is ,something I do know is that if some type aircraft flew toward
> the pentagon too close for comfort the automated defense system would
>kick in.

I like it! An automated missile defense system that will shoot down anything that comes near it!


I mean, sure, such a system would occasionally shoot down errant traffic helicopters, off course MD-80's and private aircraft flown by clueless pilots, but that's the price we must pay for eternal vigilance I suppose.

Actually , Bill, as you know, those errant aircraft are routinely intercepted as they enter the restricted airspace,they never have a remote chance of getting close to the Pentagon.
I mean really, you know that , so what's up with your reply ?

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I wonder who got paid to hush up all the automated system tests and accidental shootdowns that have occurred over the years? Has Skynet gotten that powerful?

>but if chaffe and a hot flare were dropped from a c-130 just infront of the
> pentagon , the pentagons' own defense missle could attack the building.

I never thought about that! I could just fire a flare gun at any important government building, and its own automated missile defense system would fire missiles that would then do 180's and destroy the building for me. Cool.
_____________________________________________

Actually you would have to have an aircraft threat to engage the missle system ,then the c-130 like the one over the Pentagon on 9-11 would release its' chaffe and flare to fool the missle toward a different target.
Again Bill , chaffe and flares are routine anti aircraft missle defense . You know that .
You also know that cellphones didn't work so well at jetliner alltitudes on 9-11-01 and even made a post to this forum a few years later about how you were part of the group who had engineered the fix.
Or could be that my memory just ain't that good.


Blues,
Cliff

2muchTruth

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[nanook 1]

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Of course it could also be that the automated defense system on top of the Pentagon as well as the interceptor aircraft in the sky just couldn't stop that boeing commercial aircraft piloted by A-rabs.

Regarding my previous post about shooting down an aircraft over a metro area vs. allowing it to hit the Pentagon, why do people think there were missile batteries on Pentagon property? And automated? With major airports nearby? I've only seen conspiracy theory sites talk about them existing.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[cliffwhite 0]

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Of course it could also be that the automated defense system on top of the Pentagon as well as the interceptor aircraft in the sky just couldn't stop that boeing commercial aircraft piloted by A-rabs.

Regarding my previous post about shooting down an aircraft over a metro area vs. allowing it to hit the Pentagon,

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Of course another option ,nanook, would have been to follow established protocall and intercept it when it strayed more than two miles off course or when the transponder was turned off.
Well away from heavily populated areas.
That didn't happen. Why do you think?

Blues,
Cliff

2muchTruth

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[rhys 0]

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Oh, yay....another "troofer" - just what we needed.

Ignorance is bliss isn't it.

You Like the 2nd ammendment so much but you so easily forget about the 1st.

You will see the inevitable litgation will be introduced to this debarcle in the very near future.

It will be a testement to the strength of the first ammendment. Should be very interesting!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[nanook 1]

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Of course another option ,nanook, would have been to follow established protocall and intercept it when it strayed more than two miles off course or when the transponder was turned off.
Well away from heavily populated areas.
That didn't happen.

Yes it did happen. But first, they would have needed to have been told by the FAA first. The Indiana person didn't put two and two together fast enough and the military was vectored in the wrong direction by confusions of where that aircraft was.

Of course CT's would use another explaination because it meets thier positive outlook in life.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

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Oh, yay....another "troofer" - just what we needed.

Ignorance is bliss isn't it.

You should know.

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You Like the 2nd ammendment so much but you so easily forget about the 1st.

Show where I'm saying he should be silenced? Can't find it? Didn't think so.

Oh, and BTW? The First Amendment is talking about GOVERNMENT action, not individual. Something else you evidently need to study up on along with chemistry and physics.

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You will see the inevitable litgation will be introduced to this debarcle in the very near future.

Yeah, you've been saying that for a couple years now.

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It will be a testement to the strength of the first ammendment.

*rolls eyes*

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Should be very interesting!

No, it probably won't be - just another rehash of the same tired crap.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[nanook 1]

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Actually you would have to have an aircraft threat to engage the missle system ,then the c-130 like the one over the Pentagon on 9-11 would release its' chaffe and flare to fool the missle toward a different target.

Air intercept missiles tend to break the sound barrier almost immediatly after they leave the launch sites. They would be too far away and pointing the opposite direction mere seconds after a launch to even notice the flares or chaff over the pentagon

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You also know that cellphones didn't work so well at jetliner alltitudes on 9-11-01 and even made a post to this forum a few years later about how you were part of the group who had engineered the fix.

That's why a majority of the passengers used the air phones

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[cliffwhite 0]

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Of course another option ,nanook, would have been to follow established protocall and intercept it when it strayed more than two miles off course or when the transponder was turned off.
Well away from heavily populated areas.
That didn't happen.

Yes it did happen. But first, they would have needed to have been told by the FAA first.

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Oh . I see. The nation is under attack but NORAD and the rest of the military defense system is waiting on a civilian agency to point out the targets and the threats?
And the no fly airspace around DC is something the military was waiting on the FAA to dilineate as well?

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" 2

There it is Mr. Nanook.
There is no denying that at the Presidential bunker it was known that a hostile aircraft was enroute to DC.
The orders stand.

If the order was for the military to intercept it the military would have intercepted it.

Therefore the official order must have been to allow the aircraft its' target.



Blues,
Cliff

2muchTruth

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[cliffwhite 0]

[reply
Air intercept missiles tend to break the sound barrier almost immediatly after they leave the launch sites. They would be too far away and pointing the opposite direction mere seconds after a launch to even notice the flares or chaff over the pentagon

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And I'm sure our spartan military budget never allowed for the engineers or the physicists to design the exact defense system which would work for our military headquarters in its' current location. Just all off the shelf stuff.


Blues,
Cliff



[

2muchTruth

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[nanook 1]

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Oh . I see. The nation is under attack but NORAD and the rest of the military defense system is waiting on a civilian agency to point out the targets and the threats?

You got it!! The FAA would be better at telling anyone if an aircraft is off course. They monitor and reroute aircraft. It's not a threat till it's off course, right? The answer is "yes" here.

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There is no denying that at the Presidential bunker it was known that a hostile aircraft was enroute to DC.
The orders stand.

Man, we are on a roll here! Unless you thought I was denying this fact.

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And the no fly airspace around DC is something the military was waiting on the FAA to dilineate as well?

No fly airspace? There's two airports in DC. One is about 6000 feet away from the Pentagon. The No fly airspace is a red herring.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[cliffwhite 0]

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That's why a majority of the passengers used the air phones

According to the FBI the aircraft that hit the Pentagon didn't have airphones.

Blues,Cliffl

2muchTruth

[cliffwhite 0]

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There is no denying that at the Presidential bunker it was known that a hostile aircraft was enroute to DC.
The orders stand.

Man, we are on a roll here! Unless you thought I was denying this fact.

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So if you agree that the presidential bunker knew there was an inbound hostile aircraft , why do you believe it wasn't shot down considering the presidents 'order " that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists".

Blues,
Cliff


[

2muchTruth

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[nanook 1]

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why do you believe it wasn't shot down considering the presidents 'order " that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists

Remember this quote?

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Yes it did happen. But first, they would have needed to have been told by the FAA first. The Indiana person didn't put two and two together fast enough and the military was vectored in the wrong direction by confusions of where that aircraft was.

this means they weren't able to if they tried.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[nanook 1]

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That's why a majority of the passengers used the air phones

According to the FBI the aircraft that hit the Pentagon didn't have airphones.

Totally irrelevant. The cell phone conspiracy was about the crash at Pennsylvania.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

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[matthewcline 0]

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>So you think ,Bill, that the "finest fighting force " in the world were just
>"dicking around" when the nation was "under attack".

OK. So what's your explanation?

I believe the order was to stand down. Note the military guy was calling it out. 50 miles,30 miles, 10, does the order still stand?
If the order had been to take down the plane it would have been downed.

If there wasn't a plane in position to intercept there would have been no reason for the question, "does the order still stand?"
The order from Vice President Dick Cheney was for the fighters to stand down. IMO

Blues,
Cliff

Well then you need to change your thread to "Finest VP in the world?" for, if the VP issued a stand down order then the military did exactly as told to do.

As for Katrina, well that too was a POTUS/VPOTUS and FEMA issue, not the Militarys, they did as ordered when so ordered, and did a very good job at it.

Your hatred is clouding your judgement. Fell free to speak your mind, as it is guaranteed by the Consitution and protected by law (and the Military you appear to hate), but think a little "better" before you attack the very people who are protecting you to the best of their ability given the orders they are to follow.

If you think they are acting to slow in some cases, then you'll need to vote out those who are questioning thier own ability (to stay in office after a decision) and make decisions to slow and late for the Military to act on.

But just giving the Military an end state and getting out of the way will offend too many people, maybe even including me, a guy who at times wished we had that direct and blunt order.

Matt

Been there, done that and have worn out the t-shirts.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[rhys 0]

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Oh, and BTW? The First Amendment is talking about GOVERNMENT action, not individual. Something else you evidently need to study up on along with chemistry and physics.

The village idiots will always be the village idiots!

hoover vs beck

your standpoint on this subject would be qite predictable.

What will you do when this coverup is accepeted as exposed (it already is but you wish to ignore the evident truth)? you and all the other 'educated' village idiots.

I suppose it will be the same as when the WMD's were found to be a Hoax, you'll just pretend that you were aware the whole time.

I am glad I have spent so much time drawing out your thoughts and your mates', I couldn't really give a fuck what you or anyone thinks of me, but you all obviously do, that is why you have such strong opinions towards things that are not clearly explained. You believ what you want to believe and dismiss what you find as threatneing, yet you only threaten your very wellbeing by supporting such corruption and idiocy.

If you had a clue you would keep your mouth shut and see what happens but you want to be the big guy in the know the whole time, but that is going to make you, kallend, bilvon, lawrocket and the rest of your self proclaimed experts, look, sound and feel like complete morons and I really hope you all become ashamed of yourselves and find the heart to oppologise for treating the casualties of the 9/11 events, and the repercussions of the conspiracy that followed, with the respect they deserve.

Your words along with the mainstreams are completely disrepectful of common sence and the massive loss of life and wellbeing that has resulted.

You will be laughing now, but you will not be for very much longer.

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Yeah, you've been saying that for a couple years now.

Yes and I stick to my word and it is evident that my assertions are correct.

A collaberation of those that are able to think and speak for themselves, known by you as 'troofers', are being ostaracised and oppressed into a corner, making those that want to support the cause reluctant, due the the simple human primal instinct of being accepted.

Fortunately there are plenty of very intellegent people that could give a fuck about you or your idiotic, foolish naysayer mates.

This collaberation is coming together with overwhelaming results right now, you might as well get you last tin hat jokes out because the joke will be on you, sooner than later.

My work is done here, your ridicule is about to 'flip a bitch' and it is all your own fault for being such a fool!

the 1st ammendment is going to save you, me and everyone from this lunacy!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Rookie120 0]

Man you are startin to lose it!

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[chuckakers 370]

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Is shit like this not considered trolling?

yup.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[bullin82 0]

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No system is perfect. What suggestions do you have to defend it?

Let's see. I'd probably have jet fighters on alert at all times . Probably an automated missle system on the roof . Maybe a radar system in place to track all objects flying within say 500 miles of the country.

OH!!!! We had all that !!!! But even with a Presidential order which(according to the 911 commision report) "authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists" , the military just couldn't manage to take out a large slow commercial airliner.
Hmm.

Blues,
Cliff

First off this is definetly trolling second if you havenever been faced with a decision to end life even more so the lives of civilians and countrymen, then you have no say. I have been blessed not to have to have that decision to kill countrymen to save a building. I mean really get over it.

[Lefty 0]

Seriously. Every now and then after I make a post I get that little nervous rise in heart rate and blood pressure when I consider that maybe I've said something completely foolish and that someone like llibvon (just kidding) is about to hit the softball out of the park. Cliff, how has your head not exploded yet?

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin