Do you think anyone will ever start vesting the "czars"?

[jgoose71 0]

Article II Section II of the US constitution:

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

Just my opinion, but to much power is being given to people we know nothing about until it is to late. In some cases these people have authority over vested cabinet members. I can't wait to see the results.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[quade 3]

And with the Democrats controlling both the House and the Senate, exactly what difference would this have made other than to slow things down for the transition team?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jgoose71 0]

That is an easy question. We may have heard something about the person (any radical influences and his qualifications), and maybe a little about the new "Czar" position being created. A lot of these positions can be covered by already existing cabinet positions.

I understand that maybe the president might be trying to get a few people to help him out that have a "target specific" job with a specific purpose in the grand scheme of things, but it is starting to look more like he has found a good way to circumvent the vetting process after everyone he tried to hire is a radical tax cheat. The Czars need to be vetted.

Even if all the process does is slow down the confirmation, at least Fox News will air the results.

Just my observation. Ask a hard question.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[rushmc 18]

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And with the Democrats controlling both the House and the Senate, exactly what difference would this have made other than to slow things down for the transition team?

Because not even they (the Dems) would have helped Jones survive. They are smarter than that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

Point is, if it's not him, it's the next guy in line.

The only thing it would do is slow down the process. With the amount of stuff Obama was trying to get going all at once, at least one person was going to end up in a position there the dirt diggers on the other side where going to find something to bitch about.

I'm not saying that excuses anything, but what I am saying is that none of us are angels. None of us would ever hold up to the type of scrutiny any of these guys have to.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 18]

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Point is, if it's not him, it's the next guy in line.

The only thing it would do is slow down the process.

OK, I guess it makes it (in your mind anyway) a good deal people like Jones have the power and the ear of the Pres. Sweet........

I mean, speed is much more important

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

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OK, I guess it makes it (in your mind anyway) a good deal people like Jones have the power and the ear of the Pres. Sweet........

Tell me again, exactly, what laws he ever broke? Can you maybe link to me the video of him saying the "racist" things Glenn Beck says he has?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JohnRich 4]

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And with the Democrats controlling both the House and the Senate, exactly what difference would this have made other than to slow things down for the transition team?

Well shucks, we wouldn't want a little thing like the Constitution to get in the way of doing things quickly!

Why don't we just throw out the whole pesky thing and let our Presidents act like Kings?

[quade 3]

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And with the Democrats controlling both the House and the Senate, exactly what difference would this have made other than to slow things down for the transition team?

Well shucks, we wouldn't want a little thing like the Constitution to get in the way of doing things quickly!

"May" not "Shall".

It's certainly not required.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jgoose71 0]

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OK, I guess it makes it (in your mind anyway) a good deal people like Jones have the power and the ear of the Pres. Sweet........

Tell me again, exactly, what laws he ever broke? Can you maybe link to me the video of him saying the "racist" things Glenn Beck says he has?

The Vetting process isn't about "If he has broke laws". It is supposed to be about "is this guy a decent human being that we can trust to do the job". Just like a job interview. Just because he hasn't broke the law, do you want him working for you? Just like in Van Jones's case, do you want a guy that supports Cop Killers to have the ear of the president? No he hasn't broken any laws but....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[quade 3]

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Just like in Van Jones's case, do you want a guy that supports Cop Killers to have the ear of the president? No he hasn't broken any laws but....

Show me the quote.
Show me the video.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 18]

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Just like in Van Jones's case, do you want a guy that supports Cop Killers to have the ear of the president? No he hasn't broken any laws but....

Show me the quote.
Show me the video.

There is one of two things going on here. Either you don't have a clue about this numb nut or, you can not be trusted and should be on the terror watch list

Which one is it?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jgoose71 0]

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Just like in Van Jones's case, do you want a guy that supports Cop Killers to have the ear of the president? No he hasn't broken any laws but....

Show me the quote.
Show me the video.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1999/10/09/MN91787.DTL

Mumia Abu-Jamal was found guilty and the case went all the way through the supreme court. That still wasn't enough for Van Jones. I'm thinking that it was because Mumia started life as a community organizer first. Never mind that he was organizing for the Black Panthers.... It's amazing how this little detail has missed most of the Media

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[quade 3]

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Quote

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Just like in Van Jones's case, do you want a guy that supports Cop Killers to have the ear of the president? No he hasn't broken any laws but....

Show me the quote.
Show me the video.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1999/10/09/MN91787.DTL

Mumia Abu-Jamal was found guilty and the case went all the way through the supreme court. That still wasn't enough for Van Jones. I'm thinking that it was because Mumia started life as a community organizer first. Never mind that he was organizing for the Black Panthers.... It's amazing how this little detail has missed most of the Media

Van Jones DIDN'T say it was OK to kill cops. Van Jones was defending the guy's First Amendment rights even if they are antithetical to "normal".

So, again, what did Van Jones do that was wrong?

Show me the quote, show me the video, show me the law that was broken?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 3]

There are one of two things going on here;

Either you believe everything right-wing talking heads tell you or . . . oh wait, that's pretty much all there is.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jgoose71 0]

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Quote

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Just like in Van Jones's case, do you want a guy that supports Cop Killers to have the ear of the president? No he hasn't broken any laws but....

Show me the quote.
Show me the video.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1999/10/09/MN91787.DTL

Mumia Abu-Jamal was found guilty and the case went all the way through the supreme court. That still wasn't enough for Van Jones. I'm thinking that it was because Mumia started life as a community organizer first. Never mind that he was organizing for the Black Panthers.... It's amazing how this little detail has missed most of the Media

Van Jones DIDN'T say it was OK to kill cops, but he had a record label that published a guy that did. Van Jones was defending the guy's First Amendment rights even if they are antithetical to "normal".

So, again, what did Van Jones do that was wrong?

Show me the quote, show me the video, show me the law that was broken?

Did you even read the Link? It said that Van Jones was protesting Mumia's case in the middle of a "Code 33" where police were supposed to be listening to the San Francisco youth in an effort to build community relations. His efforts were to disrupt the event to get media attention.

You mean to tell me he owns a record label that signs cop killers also? What site were you looking at?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[quade 3]

Excuse me, I wrote that poorly in part to my own misunderstanding of the relationship. He did not own the record label. He was sampled by the artist on the record.

I'd still like to see the quote you guys thing was so "racist" he had to resign.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jgoose71 0]

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There are one of two things going on here;

Either you believe everything right-wing talking heads tell you or . . . oh wait, that's pretty much all there is.

No this was written by the San Francisco Chronicle Oct 9, 1999, if you want to call that right wing. If my link isn't working you can google "Van Jones Cop Killer" and click on the link to the San Francisco Chronicle that pops up for the full story.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[quade 3]

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There are one of two things going on here;
Either you believe everything right-wing talking heads tell you or . . . oh wait, that's pretty much all there is.

No this was written by the San Francisco Chronicle Oct 9, 1999, if you want to call that right wing. If my link isn't working you can google "Van Jones Cop Killer" and click on the link to the San Francisco Chronicle that pops up for the full story.

Read the link. Still don't find anything that would disqualify him from holding a position in government. He helped organize a rally that happened to coincide with another event. Big fuckin' deal. His object, as is clear by the article, wasn't to disrupt the other event. It did, but that was secondary. His objective was to get press.

Was it a violent protest? No.

Was anybody even arrested? Not according to the article!

Big deal!

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jgoose71 0]

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There are one of two things going on here;
Either you believe everything right-wing talking heads tell you or . . . oh wait, that's pretty much all there is.

No this was written by the San Francisco Chronicle Oct 9, 1999, if you want to call that right wing. If my link isn't working you can google "Van Jones Cop Killer" and click on the link to the San Francisco Chronicle that pops up for the full story.

Read the link. Still don't find anything that would disqualify him from holding a position in government. He helped organize a rally that happened to coincide with another event. Big fuckin' deal. His object, as is clear by the article, wasn't to disrupt the other event. It did, but that was secondary. His objective was to get press.

Was it a violent protest? No.

Was anybody even arrested? Not according to the article!

Big deal!

Which goes back to the original point and the purpose of the Vetting process. Even though he wasn't guilty of anything and didn't break any laws, he still supported a cop killer. Is this the kind of person you want whispering in the ear of the leader of the free world?

I guess it's OK if you don't mind your leaders and their supporting elements being devoid of any Moral Compass.

It seems to be asking a lot now a days just to ask your leaders to know the difference between right and wrong. Law and order, good. Cop killer, bad.

So what if he hasn't broken any laws. His decisions speak volumes of his character.

I can understand that maybe he might have faced a lot of racism when he was growing up, but just like Obama said in his famous race speech about Rev Write, that is not the face of America today. If you can't see what America is today, how can you lead us to tomorrow?

Either way, he doesn't belong in the White House.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[quade 3]

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Which goes back to the original point and the purpose of the Vetting process. Even though he wasn't guilty of anything and didn't break any laws, he still supported a cop killer.

Did he? Or . . . was he helping to organize a protest because he didn't think the guy got a fair trial?

How do you define "support"?

Maybe you're not aware of it, but a lot of people (in particular minorities) haven't gotten fair trials. It doesn't mean they aren't even guilty, but the reason some people take cases and organize protests might not have anything to do whatsoever with the original crime. Yes, in the US, even the guilty are supposed to get fair trials.

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Is this the kind of person you want whispering in the ear of the leader of the free world?

Depending on the circumstance. Yeah, actually it might be.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 18]

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There are one of two things going on here;

Either you believe everything right-wing talking heads tell you or . . . oh wait, that's pretty much all there is.

Oh the vitriol spewed toward those you do not agree with proves you to be mistaken.

I have to admit I am enjoying it however

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

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Oh the vitriol spewed toward those you do not agree with proves you to be mistaken.

Are you certain you understand the words you use? That sentence doesn't make sense. How does my disrespect of say, Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck, "prove" that they actually have a valid point and I am somehow "mistaken"?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 18]

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Oh the vitriol spewed toward those you do not agree with proves you to be mistaken.

Are you certain you understand the words you use? That sentence doesn't make sense. How does my disrespect of say, Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck, "prove" that they actually have a valid point and I am somehow "mistaken"?

Oh it makes sense.

Glen Beck is on target. You however respect no one you disagree with. I for one am glad you are in the minority. Those looking at things with their eyes closed make for, well, those who make comments like you have on this thread

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jgoose71 0]

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Which goes back to the original point and the purpose of the Vetting process. Even though he wasn't guilty of anything and didn't break any laws, he still supported a cop killer.

Did he? Or . . . was he helping to organize a protest because he didn't think the guy got a fair trial?

How do you define "support"?

Maybe you're not aware of it, but a lot of people (in particular minorities) haven't gotten fair trials. It doesn't mean they aren't even guilty, but the reason some people take cases and organize protests might not have anything to do whatsoever with the original crime. Yes, in the US, even the guilty are supposed to get fair trials.

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Is this the kind of person you want whispering in the ear of the leader of the free world?

Depending on the circumstance. Yeah, actually it might be.

Lets try a different approach on the importance of Vesting these people-

A former Grand Dragon for the KKK wants to get a job in the Department of Defense as the "Military Czar". We can all agree that he is probably someone that we don't want to get ahold of military secrets.

KKK
For Conservatives- racist=bad
For Liberals- White=bad

Even though he may have the qualifications, background, know how, and has never been in trouble with the law, do you really want to give him this position? He may be able to do the job, but what deals does he have going on the side?

This is the problem I have with the hole "Czar" thing. How do I know Von Jones isn't going to start pumping pollutants into "rich white neighborhoods" for revenge? Current revelations about him suggest that he may be just that radical. How about the Bailout Czar? Are you sure he isn't funneling money someplace it shouldn't go?

Because of my job in the military I have to be enrolled in what they call the "Personal Reliability Program". Because of the information I deal with I don't have to break the law to get kicked out of my job. I just have to demonstrate behavior could "look bad". If I even hint that I may use the knowledge that was given to me for something other than the intended use, I am in what they call "deep do-do".

I have seen people trying to become navy SEAL's kicked out of BUD's for having Arian Nation tatoo's on their backs, I expect the same from my president, even if it is "reverse discrimination."

If you can't understand the importance of Vesting and back ground checks, then I guess we might as well just give everyone the components to VX nerve gas because just because they don't have a criminal record doesn't mean they will do anything bad with it.
Honestly officer, I was making Pesticides

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything