stevebabin 0 #1 August 8, 2009 http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/08/07/global.warming/index.html Any thoughts on this, anyone?"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #2 August 8, 2009 I'm nearly certain someone will be here in a few moments to deny it. Then when you show them the proof, they'll say, ok, it's happening, but it's not because of anything that humans have done. What's great about it is that if it continues long enough, all of the evidence will just go away and they'll just say that glaciers never existed.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #3 August 8, 2009 Quote I'm nearly certain someone will be here in a few moments to deny it. Then when you show them the proof, they'll say, ok, it's happening, but it's not because of anything that humans have done. What's great about it is that if it continues long enough, all of the evidence will just go away and they'll just say that glaciers never existed. That does seem to be the way people think in here, i just watched a documentary on polar bears, seems they are losing a week of feeding time per decade on average since that particular study began."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #4 August 8, 2009 Quotehttp://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/08/07/global.warming/index.html Any thoughts on this, anyone? Quade is right, first, no credible belief in CNN, it is a major arm of the BHO controlled media, and second, we can't do anything about it. As one of the presidential candidates, Romney I think, said, "It is global warming not America warming." If we can learn to control hurricanes and tornadoes maybe, just maybe, we can learn to change to climate. I seriously doubt it. Bottom line, Biblical prophecy indicates God's plan is for a new earth. The present one will be destroyed by fire.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #5 August 8, 2009 Quote"It is global warming not America warming." If we can learn to control hurricanes and tornadoes maybe, just maybe, we can learn to change to climate. I seriously doubt it. I guess, you don't believe that pollution contributes to the problem? But as it does you could start with the development of good public transprtation and most importantly the acceptance of using it as a viable means of transport, the USA is heavily developed around the automobile. If high speed electric trains start hauling people to work and between cities faster and more comfortably than sitting in gridlock, or commuting to and from an airplane the mindsets would change quite rapidly. The apparent ability of the american people to live frivilous, unsustainable lyfestyles is also rubbing off on the rest of the world through the media. If you can live like that, we want to too! is the way it seeems to be going, in a couple of decades when China and India as well as many other developing countries see 'more' development, which will include televisions and internet, they too will want the cushy, easy yet unsustainable and wasteful lifestyle. You don't seem to realise (from your post) how much of an impact your country has on the world. Everyone wants it easy, but unfortunately we can't, someone or something has to pay the price. Our planet is alrady in ruins, how much more can it take before a cataclysm happens that will put us all back to square one. Don't think I believe my own country and many others is not the same in many ways but the USA is the top of the shop when it comes to this unfortunate problem. You guys have ample space and recources as you are a young country with a huge continent to feed off. The rest of the world (for the most part) does not have the same privilidge."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #6 August 8, 2009 QuoteI guess, you don't believe that pollution contributes to the problem? Quote No, I dont, at least not to the degree the alarmists predict. But the data is going south on them lately. Another few years and we will know more. As for the melting part of this topic? Well, the oceans are rising (not) The polar bears are dieing (not) Temps are rising (not for the last ten years anyway) We will have more huricanes (not) Anartic ice is going away (not) How many false hoods are we to beleive from this crowd? I will make a bet that the post you put up will be refuted soon. Wanna bet?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #7 August 8, 2009 QuoteNo, I dont So therefore it is ok to pump out Co2 as much as we like, we can just burn coal for energy, drive 6 litre cars, and burn all our refuse because there will be no consequence whatsoever?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #8 August 8, 2009 Obviously it's because the hellfires of damnation are stoking-up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #9 August 8, 2009 QuoteQuoteNo, I dont So therefore it is ok to pump out Co2 as much as we like, we can just burn coal for energy, drive 6 litre cars, and burn all our refuse because there will be no consequence whatsoever? That is close to about it, yes. But then you have to remember I want my grand kids to choke on poluted air and simmer in exess heat. I want the ground and water poisoned and the dirt chemically made none usable. That fits in with my racist views and my desire to have evil CEO's and corp get terribly high profits. I want the poor shipped to an island and the old kicked out of ther homes Hope I covered it all so you dont have to waste any of your time"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #10 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote Quote No, I dont So therefore it is ok to pump out Co2 as much as we like, we can just burn coal for energy, drive 6 litre cars, and burn all our refuse because there will be no consequence whatsoever? That is close to about it, yes. But then you have to remember I want my grand kids to choke on poluted air and simmer in exess heat. I want the ground and water poisoned and the dirt chemically made none usable. That fits in with my racist views and my desire to have evil CEO's and corp get terribly high profits. I want the poor shipped to an island and the old kicked out of ther homes Hope I covered it all so you dont have to waste any of your time Gotta love it!Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #11 August 8, 2009 Quote But then you have to remember I want my grand kids to choke on poluted air and simmer in exess heat. I want the ground and water poisoned and the dirt chemically made none usable. That fits in with my racist views and my desire to have evil CEO's and corp get terribly high profits. I want the poor shipped to an island and the old kicked out of ther homes Hope I covered it all so you dont have to waste any of your time , You are a crack up, you know that you're an asshole but you simply don't care."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #12 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote But then you have to remember I want my grand kids to choke on poluted air and simmer in exess heat. I want the ground and water poisoned and the dirt chemically made none usable. That fits in with my racist views and my desire to have evil CEO's and corp get terribly high profits. I want the poor shipped to an island and the old kicked out of ther homes Hope I covered it all so you dont have to waste any of your time , You are a crack up, you know that you're ans asshole but you simply don't care. You are obviously not a religious man. I dont know who "ans asshole" is, but if you say soI am glad that some one has finnaly admitted that the AWG topic is more of a religion than a science so, in your sense you are correct, I am NOT a religious man"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rookie120 0 #13 August 8, 2009 QuoteI'm nearly certain someone will be here in a few moments to deny it. Ok they are melting! So what the hell do you want me to do about it?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #14 August 8, 2009 Oooooooo, you edited out the type o Ok "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #15 August 8, 2009 QuoteI am glad that some one has finnaly admitted that the AWG topic is more of a religion than a science so.. You may have read it that way, but I was refering to you not giving a shit about anything or anyone than yourself. I deleted the 'definately not religous' part as there are plenty of assholes that are!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #16 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote But then you have to remember I want my grand kids to choke on poluted air and simmer in exess heat. I want the ground and water poisoned and the dirt chemically made none usable. That fits in with my racist views and my desire to have evil CEO's and corp get terribly high profits. I want the poor shipped to an island and the old kicked out of ther homes Hope I covered it all so you dont have to waste any of your time , You are a crack up, you know that you're an asshole but you simply don't care. I forgot that I am a homophob and I abuse woment tooSorry for the omision"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #17 August 8, 2009 QuoteQuoteI guess, you don't believe that pollution contributes to the problem? Quote No, I dont, at least not to the degree the alarmists predict. But the data is going south on them lately. Another few years and we will know more. As for the melting part of this topic? Well, the oceans are rising (not) See attached graph Quote Temps are rising (not for the last ten years anyway) A typically meaningless statement from you when the shortest solar cycle is longer than 10 years. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #18 August 8, 2009 QuoteObviously it's because the hellfires of damnation are stoking-up. Yup! QuoteWe're gonna romp and stomp, and smash and bash, and slash and bash and burn. There's no way to delay the trouble comin' every day. ~ Frank Zappa c.1967Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #19 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote Quote I guess, you don't believe that pollution contributes to the problem? Quote No, I dont, at least not to the degree the alarmists predict. But the data is going south on them lately. Another few years and we will know more. As for the melting part of this topic? Well, the oceans are rising (not) See attached graph Quote Temps are rising (not for the last ten years anyway) A typically meaningless statement from you when the shortest solar cycle is longer than 10 years. Dude, I did not say things changeBut then I was not the one (or group) saying we will loose cities to the rising water "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #20 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote I guess, you don't believe that pollution contributes to the problem? Quote No, I dont, at least not to the degree the alarmists predict. But the data is going south on them lately. Another few years and we will know more. As for the melting part of this topic? Well, the oceans are rising (not) See attached graph Quote Temps are rising (not for the last ten years anyway) A typically meaningless statement from you when the shortest solar cycle is longer than 10 years. Dude, I did not say things changeBut then I was not the one (or group) saying we will loose cities to the rising water Who did, then? You DID say "Well, the oceans are rising (not)" when the data show very clearly that they are.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #21 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I guess, you don't believe that pollution contributes to the problem? Quote No, I dont, at least not to the degree the alarmists predict. But the data is going south on them lately. Another few years and we will know more. As for the melting part of this topic? Well, the oceans are rising (not) See attached graph Quote Temps are rising (not for the last ten years anyway) A typically meaningless statement from you when the shortest solar cycle is longer than 10 years. Dude, I did not say things changeBut then I was not the one (or group) saying we will loose cities to the rising water Who did, then? You DID say "Well, the oceans are rising (not)" when the data show very clearly that they are. Ya, and you pretend to have honest exchanges"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #22 August 8, 2009 It's all part of gods plan .... best start building an ark..... hey, I hear that it worked last time (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #23 August 8, 2009 The attached image that you included - it appears to me that the slope of the line has remained relatively constant over the past 100 years (yes... I see the up´s and down´s but the overall slope) One would think that if it were due to the American culture change with what some on this site would call our *cough* frivolous lifestyle and cavilier use of autos, then the slope would have sharply risen starting in ... lets say 1980´s? or maybe even 1960´s? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #24 August 8, 2009 The article contains a number of things that provide for inferences that indicate things aren't what they may seem. QuoteThe ongoing study is the latest in a series of reports that found glaciers worldwide are melting faster than anyone had predicted they would just a few years ago This provides yet more evidence that the modeling techniques and the physics of the climate just aren't understood. How many goddamned reports to we have to have that things are worse that the models predicted? How many things occur (such as decade-long lapses in warming) that were not predicted by models until we stop and say, "We know what the data today says. We didn't expect this. We didn't predict it. We don't know why it's happening. We've gotta go back to the drawing board. Until we understand why we didn't see this coming we'll be hit again and again with stuff we don't expect. Our record of predicting things sucks. And we've gotta get that straight before we can be relied upon in our future guesses." Quote"So we feel it's definitely something going on, probably on a global scale, and of course, if you look at other such measurements around the world and put it all together, yes, glaciers are retreating and retreating rapidly." Translation - "We don't have the science to support it. It's not something we've had peer reviewed. It's a 'feeling.'" Scientist - don't tell me what you "feel." If I wanted to know 'feelings' I'll talk to a poet. I expect scientists dealing with science to tell me what they think and provide the reasoning. "I feel like this is going on" is the nice foundation for a hypothesis. Test it and give me the results. QuoteJosberger called the unprecedented glacial melt the "canary in the coal mine." "Unprecedented." There's that word again. I think the Yosemite Valley suggests that such a glacial melt has not only been "precedented" but on a much larger scale. One need only look to history, a land bridge between modern day Siberia and Alaska. Or even the glacial remains of the American upper midwest and east coast. This is alarmist spin that cannot be supported without qualification. Period. QuoteThe rate at which a glacier melts depends on its thickness and mass and, of course, on the temperature. Even small changes in temperature of only one to two degrees can have a significant impact on the environment, according the the National Weather Service. This makes sense. The water within a glacier provides a strong thermal buffer. The greater the mass of a glacier, the greater its ability to resist the effects of an increased temperature. A billion ton block of ice is going to resist melting much better than a ten pound block of ice. The smaller the glacier gets the more suscieptible it is to melting because there is less mass to act as a thermal buffer. So melting would actually accellerate as a percentage of the mass of the glacier, given a constant warm temperature, as is gets smaller. This makes sense. QuoteWashington's South Cascade glacier has lost half its volume since 1960 and is predicted to lose half its current volume in 100 years Okay. Let me link two main issues pointed out. First - their predictions have a history of being wrong and outright sucking. So, considering their expectations haven't been met why would I believe them now? Second - assuming they are making their predictions on more valid models, the inescapeable conclusion is that the melting of the glacier is decellerating! Yes, it is expected to lose half its volume in 100 years, instead of the 40 years it took to lose half its mass. So you've got a chunk of ice half its size now than it was in 1969. At that rate you'd expect it to be GONE in 100 years, not just a quarter of the size it was. Recall - it is susceptible to accelerating its melting because of the lack of thermal buffer. (Does it take less energy to boil a quart of water or a gallon of water? Which melts sooner? A cube of ice or a block of ice? The glacier would be, effectively, yearly snowpack in another 40 years. So what the logical inference is that climate is expected to stabilize. Okay, folks. Please educate me on how I am wrong here. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #25 August 8, 2009 Quote Okay, folks. Please educate me on how I am wrong here. You're wrong by assuming a simple linear response for what is a very complex phenomenon rife with feedback effects at multiple levels of derivative.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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rhys 0 #7 August 8, 2009 QuoteNo, I dont So therefore it is ok to pump out Co2 as much as we like, we can just burn coal for energy, drive 6 litre cars, and burn all our refuse because there will be no consequence whatsoever?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #8 August 8, 2009 Obviously it's because the hellfires of damnation are stoking-up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #9 August 8, 2009 QuoteQuoteNo, I dont So therefore it is ok to pump out Co2 as much as we like, we can just burn coal for energy, drive 6 litre cars, and burn all our refuse because there will be no consequence whatsoever? That is close to about it, yes. But then you have to remember I want my grand kids to choke on poluted air and simmer in exess heat. I want the ground and water poisoned and the dirt chemically made none usable. That fits in with my racist views and my desire to have evil CEO's and corp get terribly high profits. I want the poor shipped to an island and the old kicked out of ther homes Hope I covered it all so you dont have to waste any of your time"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #10 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote Quote No, I dont So therefore it is ok to pump out Co2 as much as we like, we can just burn coal for energy, drive 6 litre cars, and burn all our refuse because there will be no consequence whatsoever? That is close to about it, yes. But then you have to remember I want my grand kids to choke on poluted air and simmer in exess heat. I want the ground and water poisoned and the dirt chemically made none usable. That fits in with my racist views and my desire to have evil CEO's and corp get terribly high profits. I want the poor shipped to an island and the old kicked out of ther homes Hope I covered it all so you dont have to waste any of your time Gotta love it!Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #11 August 8, 2009 Quote But then you have to remember I want my grand kids to choke on poluted air and simmer in exess heat. I want the ground and water poisoned and the dirt chemically made none usable. That fits in with my racist views and my desire to have evil CEO's and corp get terribly high profits. I want the poor shipped to an island and the old kicked out of ther homes Hope I covered it all so you dont have to waste any of your time , You are a crack up, you know that you're an asshole but you simply don't care."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #12 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote But then you have to remember I want my grand kids to choke on poluted air and simmer in exess heat. I want the ground and water poisoned and the dirt chemically made none usable. That fits in with my racist views and my desire to have evil CEO's and corp get terribly high profits. I want the poor shipped to an island and the old kicked out of ther homes Hope I covered it all so you dont have to waste any of your time , You are a crack up, you know that you're ans asshole but you simply don't care. You are obviously not a religious man. I dont know who "ans asshole" is, but if you say soI am glad that some one has finnaly admitted that the AWG topic is more of a religion than a science so, in your sense you are correct, I am NOT a religious man"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #13 August 8, 2009 QuoteI'm nearly certain someone will be here in a few moments to deny it. Ok they are melting! So what the hell do you want me to do about it?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #14 August 8, 2009 Oooooooo, you edited out the type o Ok "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #15 August 8, 2009 QuoteI am glad that some one has finnaly admitted that the AWG topic is more of a religion than a science so.. You may have read it that way, but I was refering to you not giving a shit about anything or anyone than yourself. I deleted the 'definately not religous' part as there are plenty of assholes that are!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #16 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote But then you have to remember I want my grand kids to choke on poluted air and simmer in exess heat. I want the ground and water poisoned and the dirt chemically made none usable. That fits in with my racist views and my desire to have evil CEO's and corp get terribly high profits. I want the poor shipped to an island and the old kicked out of ther homes Hope I covered it all so you dont have to waste any of your time , You are a crack up, you know that you're an asshole but you simply don't care. I forgot that I am a homophob and I abuse woment tooSorry for the omision"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #17 August 8, 2009 QuoteQuoteI guess, you don't believe that pollution contributes to the problem? Quote No, I dont, at least not to the degree the alarmists predict. But the data is going south on them lately. Another few years and we will know more. As for the melting part of this topic? Well, the oceans are rising (not) See attached graph Quote Temps are rising (not for the last ten years anyway) A typically meaningless statement from you when the shortest solar cycle is longer than 10 years. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #18 August 8, 2009 QuoteObviously it's because the hellfires of damnation are stoking-up. Yup! QuoteWe're gonna romp and stomp, and smash and bash, and slash and bash and burn. There's no way to delay the trouble comin' every day. ~ Frank Zappa c.1967Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #19 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote Quote I guess, you don't believe that pollution contributes to the problem? Quote No, I dont, at least not to the degree the alarmists predict. But the data is going south on them lately. Another few years and we will know more. As for the melting part of this topic? Well, the oceans are rising (not) See attached graph Quote Temps are rising (not for the last ten years anyway) A typically meaningless statement from you when the shortest solar cycle is longer than 10 years. Dude, I did not say things changeBut then I was not the one (or group) saying we will loose cities to the rising water "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #20 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote I guess, you don't believe that pollution contributes to the problem? Quote No, I dont, at least not to the degree the alarmists predict. But the data is going south on them lately. Another few years and we will know more. As for the melting part of this topic? Well, the oceans are rising (not) See attached graph Quote Temps are rising (not for the last ten years anyway) A typically meaningless statement from you when the shortest solar cycle is longer than 10 years. Dude, I did not say things changeBut then I was not the one (or group) saying we will loose cities to the rising water Who did, then? You DID say "Well, the oceans are rising (not)" when the data show very clearly that they are.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #21 August 8, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I guess, you don't believe that pollution contributes to the problem? Quote No, I dont, at least not to the degree the alarmists predict. But the data is going south on them lately. Another few years and we will know more. As for the melting part of this topic? Well, the oceans are rising (not) See attached graph Quote Temps are rising (not for the last ten years anyway) A typically meaningless statement from you when the shortest solar cycle is longer than 10 years. Dude, I did not say things changeBut then I was not the one (or group) saying we will loose cities to the rising water Who did, then? You DID say "Well, the oceans are rising (not)" when the data show very clearly that they are. Ya, and you pretend to have honest exchanges"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #22 August 8, 2009 It's all part of gods plan .... best start building an ark..... hey, I hear that it worked last time (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #23 August 8, 2009 The attached image that you included - it appears to me that the slope of the line has remained relatively constant over the past 100 years (yes... I see the up´s and down´s but the overall slope) One would think that if it were due to the American culture change with what some on this site would call our *cough* frivolous lifestyle and cavilier use of autos, then the slope would have sharply risen starting in ... lets say 1980´s? or maybe even 1960´s? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #24 August 8, 2009 The article contains a number of things that provide for inferences that indicate things aren't what they may seem. QuoteThe ongoing study is the latest in a series of reports that found glaciers worldwide are melting faster than anyone had predicted they would just a few years ago This provides yet more evidence that the modeling techniques and the physics of the climate just aren't understood. How many goddamned reports to we have to have that things are worse that the models predicted? How many things occur (such as decade-long lapses in warming) that were not predicted by models until we stop and say, "We know what the data today says. We didn't expect this. We didn't predict it. We don't know why it's happening. We've gotta go back to the drawing board. Until we understand why we didn't see this coming we'll be hit again and again with stuff we don't expect. Our record of predicting things sucks. And we've gotta get that straight before we can be relied upon in our future guesses." Quote"So we feel it's definitely something going on, probably on a global scale, and of course, if you look at other such measurements around the world and put it all together, yes, glaciers are retreating and retreating rapidly." Translation - "We don't have the science to support it. It's not something we've had peer reviewed. It's a 'feeling.'" Scientist - don't tell me what you "feel." If I wanted to know 'feelings' I'll talk to a poet. I expect scientists dealing with science to tell me what they think and provide the reasoning. "I feel like this is going on" is the nice foundation for a hypothesis. Test it and give me the results. QuoteJosberger called the unprecedented glacial melt the "canary in the coal mine." "Unprecedented." There's that word again. I think the Yosemite Valley suggests that such a glacial melt has not only been "precedented" but on a much larger scale. One need only look to history, a land bridge between modern day Siberia and Alaska. Or even the glacial remains of the American upper midwest and east coast. This is alarmist spin that cannot be supported without qualification. Period. QuoteThe rate at which a glacier melts depends on its thickness and mass and, of course, on the temperature. Even small changes in temperature of only one to two degrees can have a significant impact on the environment, according the the National Weather Service. This makes sense. The water within a glacier provides a strong thermal buffer. The greater the mass of a glacier, the greater its ability to resist the effects of an increased temperature. A billion ton block of ice is going to resist melting much better than a ten pound block of ice. The smaller the glacier gets the more suscieptible it is to melting because there is less mass to act as a thermal buffer. So melting would actually accellerate as a percentage of the mass of the glacier, given a constant warm temperature, as is gets smaller. This makes sense. QuoteWashington's South Cascade glacier has lost half its volume since 1960 and is predicted to lose half its current volume in 100 years Okay. Let me link two main issues pointed out. First - their predictions have a history of being wrong and outright sucking. So, considering their expectations haven't been met why would I believe them now? Second - assuming they are making their predictions on more valid models, the inescapeable conclusion is that the melting of the glacier is decellerating! Yes, it is expected to lose half its volume in 100 years, instead of the 40 years it took to lose half its mass. So you've got a chunk of ice half its size now than it was in 1969. At that rate you'd expect it to be GONE in 100 years, not just a quarter of the size it was. Recall - it is susceptible to accelerating its melting because of the lack of thermal buffer. (Does it take less energy to boil a quart of water or a gallon of water? Which melts sooner? A cube of ice or a block of ice? The glacier would be, effectively, yearly snowpack in another 40 years. So what the logical inference is that climate is expected to stabilize. Okay, folks. Please educate me on how I am wrong here. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #25 August 8, 2009 Quote Okay, folks. Please educate me on how I am wrong here. You're wrong by assuming a simple linear response for what is a very complex phenomenon rife with feedback effects at multiple levels of derivative.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
