pirana 0 #51 June 30, 2009 QuoteWhen I look at photos from the Hubble telescope, as one consideration, I have to accept a supreme creator being. You do not "have to", you choose to, most likely based on already existing beliefs." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #52 June 30, 2009 Quote>These original followers of Christ were convinced that he was the Messiah, the Son of God. None, not one broke ranks. I don't know about you but, to me that is a powerful conviction Wow. That is pretty amazing. People also had 2000 fewer years of history to look back on as well. Is it possible that they could have believed someone who in fact wasn't who he was? Were they any more deceivable than they are today? You have to admit, even today people are still VERY gullible. You know, kind of like how the Obama crowd is still very gullible. These disciples listened to Jesus, observed His miracles, watched Him die and then saw Him alive. Then, they watched Him ascend to heaven. They all agreed on that. They disagreed on how to tell others. But, they went to the death standing on their conviction that Jesus Christ was truth.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #53 June 30, 2009 QuoteIt's a logical impossibility to prove that something doesn't exist. It's up to you, as the person asserting that something does exist, to prove it. Please look up "Russel's Teapot". Agree. Like I said. I am not trying to prove or argue anything. My original post, Sunday 6/28, was for Christian skydivers. I was sharing. Some readers want me to argue or prove something. That is not my interest. I like to share good things.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #54 June 30, 2009 QuoteWhat evidence do you have to support your belief that God does not exist? Ah, the classic intellectually dishonest rhetorical device. "What evidence do you have that spooks do not haunt my closet at night?" One cannot prove or disprove the unprovable; thus, the unprovable must be true. In any event, you've got it backwards: the burden of proof is on those who believe in the supernatural, not on those who do not. I'm sure you're a very decent guy; but with all due respect, this kind of question insults our intelligence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #55 June 30, 2009 QuoteThe soul is defined as the mind, the emotions and the will. Do you think those elements exist? Sounds like a personal definition. I believe what is called the mind, all "feelings" or emotions, and what we perceive as "the will" (I call it the Self) all cease to exist when the brain stops functioing. There is no evidence that shows they survive the death of the physical body. I'll concede that something like the Self, or the Soul, or whatever survives the death of the body and is not reliant on the chemical reactions of the brain when evidence to that effect is presented. And I do not accept shaky videos taken by giddy reality TV ghosthunters or any other such searching-for-my-15-seconds-of-fame nonsense as evidence." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #56 June 30, 2009 Quote ... later delivered from the desire for alcohol and drugs. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
makeithappen40 0 #57 June 30, 2009 Pretty cool story. I'd have to read more about it. Uuuunfortunately, each of those men had another thing in common. They were all men. Men are prone to make error. (You know, the whole no man is perfect argument) Joseph Smith's followers also believe that he was capable of interacting with God's word. Do you believe Joseph Smith and his followers word? What about all the people who carried that message through time? Do you think that it is possible that the messages have been altered throughout time? The same can be said of all Christianity. Unfortunately, there have been experiments conducted validating this point. Messages, after exchanging hands, get changed through time. 2000 years is a reaaaally long time for the message to not have been changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #58 June 30, 2009 QuoteWhy won't you just accept that God loves you so much that He'd send you to burn in hell for all eternity? Probably a good thing we all don't love each other so much." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #59 June 30, 2009 QuoteI was saved from spiritual death, later delivered from the desire for alcohol and drugs. I have been saved with certainty of the experience since 16 Mar 81. I have been straight, clean and sober since 26 Mar 83. I have worked as a Christian based counselor since Apr 84. The Christian Skydivers Association was founded in Apr 87. Glad you were saved; but it occurs to me you saved yourself. Whatever tools or techniques were employed - it was all on you. To me religion is like weight control. (Bear with me). The recipe for being happy is as simple as the recipe for maintaining a healthy weight. Eat fewer calories than you burn. All the commercial diets are gimmicks - bar none. That being said, if you find one that allows you to succeed, good on you. Stick with it (as long as the diet itself isn't unhealthy) as a tool that works for you - but be aware that under the veil of it being your savior is a very simple truth that burning more than you eat is the foundation. (Saving the recipe for happiness for later)." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #60 June 30, 2009 QuoteOk. That kind of "evidence" doesnt do such a great job of convincing people. Also, where do you get the notion that sensory experience constitutes evidence? Sensory experience is very deniable. Think of all the times that your senses have failed you. Have you ever heard something that wasn't there? Have you ever felt pain when there was no pain to be felt? Have you ever seen something that can't be explained? We have reason to suspect that empirical inputs are false, given that they have deceived us before. (Thank you, Descartes) QuoteIt is not my job to convince anyone of anything. I have nothing to gain. If a beautiful woman tells you she loves you and gives you a big hug and a kiss and this makes your spirit soar, is that not a real, verifiable experience? Can anyone tell you that your experience was false? For the same reasons above, the empirical world is dubious in itself. Can you tell anyone the experience was true? Remember, religious arguments depend on faith in things that haven't been proven necessarily true. "Facts and evidence" are not the reason that you believe in God. Faith is. (And that is ok in my book, just don't say that you know that god exists... cause you don't.... That is true for the same reason that I don't know that God doesn't exist. We lack evidence) QuoteThat's it. That is the essence exactly. Without faith it is impossible to please God. The Bible says we are all given a seed of faith. We have to nurture it to make it grow. >Knowing Jesus, as opposed to just going to church and believing Jesus' teachings, is a good thing. I totally agree with you. However, we still don't have enough evidence to make it necessarily true that some ethical principles are in fact morally correct and others aren't. Therefore, you don't know that believing Jesus' teachings are good. However, I think they are good, just like you do.QuoteOK. >Out of the emotion of love comes the desire to share. God desires that all receive the gift of His love. Totally. However, it would be interesting if you could tell me which pieces of information (that someone else gave you, btw) that makes it necessarily true and undeniable that God in fact says that. QuoteThe New Testament book of John Chapter 3, verse 16.Your argument is problematic for the same reasons that an extremist muslim's arguments about God are false. You don't know that God said those things. You have inferred information from other assumptions that, while still allowed, aren't necessarily the case.QuoteThey work for me. I think they will work for others because of my experience in life and I believe the Bible is truth. >Jesus Christ is one of three things: 1. He was crazy. 2. He was a liar. Or, 3. He is who he says he is. >If He was either of the first two, why would any of the first disciples submit to beatings, imprisonment and execution to carry the gospel message to the world? Because people lie to each other all the time. Remember the last time millions of people the world over believed in Naziism? Hitler didn't actually know if the supreme race was white persons or black persons. However, millions of people still followed him and millions died. Therefore, no matter how widespread your support is, widespread support is no reason to follow someone's teachings.QuoteNot unless it works for you. It works for me. Try it and see if it works for you. You don't have to tell me. Just go to your secret place and ask Jesus to come into your heart and into your life. See what happens.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites makeithappen40 0 #61 June 30, 2009 >It is not my job to convince anyone of anything. I have nothing to gain. Oh. Just thought you were spreading the message of God on an internet forum and at the drop zone. Oops. >That's it. That is the essence exactly. Without faith it is impossible to please God. The Bible says we are all given a seed of faith. We have to nurture it to make it grow. Wait, who is God again? Oh ok. He is god. Did he say that you must please him, and if he did, where did you get the notion that faith is what pleases God? Oh. It was written in the Bible. A document that has been torn to shreds and re-written and handed down through 2000 years of war, crusades, and Kentucky Fried Chicken openings. The document isn't what it used to be. It hurts me as much as it hurts you. >The New Testament book of John Chapter 3, verse 16 See above. The New Testament? Ahh. A revision of the word of God by a man. Crap. >They work for me. I think they will work for others because of my experience in life and I believe the Bible is truth. Yea well so does murdering Jewish people. The German people used to get their jollies by lining Jews up in the streets, tatooing them, forcing them to perform "street scrubbing events" and killing them on the streets. "They work for me" isn't the greatest reason to believe in something either. Actually, it looks like that is a rather bad reason now. >Not unless it works for you. It works for me. Try it and see if it works for you. You don't have to tell me. Just go to your secret place and ask Jesus to come into your heart and into your life. See what happens. What if I asked Muhammed? What if I asked Buddha? What happens then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #62 June 30, 2009 Quote>Jesus Christ is one of three things: >1. He was crazy. >2. He was a liar. Or, >3. He is who he says he is. Or, a fourth possibility: He was who he said he was, but time, oral tradition and the natural human tendency to embellish have changed his story somewhat.QuoteWhat has changed or been embellished? Ah, that is a baited question. It would take weeks to search out and compare translations to determine their accuracy. Suffice to say, people have tried to disprove the Scripture and it can't be done. You may not buy in but you can't disprove it. >If a beautiful woman tells you she loves you and gives you a big hug and >a kiss and this makes your spirit soar, is that not a real, verifiable >experience? Can anyone tell you that your experience was false? If you see a movie that shows that happening, and you feel your spirit soar, would you call that a real, verifiable experience? Does that mean the movie is "real?"QuoteMy personal experience was not a movie. It was life changing reality.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #63 June 30, 2009 Quotepeople have tried to disprove the Scripture and it can't be done. You may not buy in but you can't disprove it. You're just repeating and repeating the same rhetorical double-talk that I rebutted in Post #54. Once again: The burden is to prove that the supernatural - including, for example, the Scripture - is true; the burden is NOT to prove that the supernatural is untrue. Being incapable of proof or disproof is not evidence of truth. And I say again: by repeatedly proferring this rhetorical sleight-of-logic, you're insulting our intelligence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #64 June 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteGood message. Despite negative comments, if you manage to get reach one soul, good on you. Even better if he could show that such a thing (the soul) exists.Webster's New World Dictionary defines soul: an entity without material reality, regarded as the spiritual part of a person.... My take: everyone has a soul; those with faith know they have it. Faith and the teaching of the Bible have convinced me. Christians have been scorned an beaten for 2000 yrs. Today they are put in prision and murdered in China and other parts of the world only for practicing their faith.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites redlegphi 0 #65 June 30, 2009 QuoteMy take: everyone has a soul; those with faith know they have it. Correction: They believe they have it. They can't know of the existence of something which can't be proven to exist. Once again, see Russell's Teapot. QuoteChristians have been scorned an beaten for 2000 yrs. This makes Christians different from just about every other religion and ethnic group in the world...how? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites makeithappen40 0 #66 June 30, 2009 Poor Christians, only representing 1/3rd of the general population and all. I wonder how many athiests have been beaten and scorned in the past 2000 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #67 June 30, 2009 Quote this kind of question insults our intelligence.QuoteWasn't that kinda the purpose of Jesus' ministry while here on earth. Specifically, He made fools of the intellectual elite. I'm not smart enough to do that. I just barely made it through graduate school. For me every term was a sudden death playoff. All I wanted to do was collect my GI Bill. You are a attorney. You spend your days and earn your living attacking people's beliefs and discounting their evidence. I'm not a worthy opponent for you. I have focused a major portion of my life offering encouragement and exhortation to the down trodden, confused, chemically dependent. My original post was an inspirational message to Christian skydivers. I can't debate what has saved my life, my career, my hopes and my dreams. It is what it is. If someone is at their wits end and in desperate need, there is an answer of hope and substance that has proven to be beneficial to many millions since the creation of man. I hate to hear that someone met an untimely death through suicide or some poor decision while under the influence of a mood altering chemical. Jesus came to heal the sick, restore sight to the blind, set the captives free and to proclaim the Day of the Lord. That is a worthy path to walk in my book.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,257 #68 June 30, 2009 QuoteQuite true over time. All beliefs have their willing martyrs. Quite true over time, quite true immediately, as well! You have been given examples. QuoteThese original followers of Christ were convinced that he was the Messiah, the Son of God. None, not one broke ranks. Um, Judas? You've heard of him, right? Regardless, it is not astonishing, it is not remarkable, it's not even surprising that a man in that place and time could convince others that he was a deity. There may well have been people there who believed it utterly and truly with all their being, but that's not unique and it's not persuasive.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #69 June 30, 2009 What happened on Sunday ? Was it the End of the World again, and I missed it? Darn it. Ok, I promise to keep track and make the next two. What is the attire for the party ? BC/AD Casual ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,257 #70 June 30, 2009 QuoteMy personal experience was not a movie. It was life changing reality. Big woop, but so what? There are millions of Muslims and Buddhists and Hindu's out there who would tell me exactly the same thing. There are even atheists who would say the same thing about the moment they realised there wasn't a god and that they were free. So why on earth should I think that, out of all the different vehicles of salvation I've been told about, the one you credit is the real one?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,257 #71 June 30, 2009 Quote What happened on Sunday ? Was it the End of the World again, Could have been. I woke up on monday morning with man-flu and I've felt like I'm dead ever sinceDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #72 June 30, 2009 QuoteI'm not smart enough to do that. I just barely made it through graduate school. For me every term was a sudden death playoff. All I wanted to do was collect my GI Bill. You are a attorney. You spend your days and earn your living attacking people's beliefs and discounting their evidence. I'm not a worthy opponent for you. Nice try. This isn't about me; and although I'm not going to get sucked into a rebuttal, you clearly have no idea what I do. Actually, I believe you do really know, but are deliberately mischaracterizing it. You're back-handedly attacking others; you're shamelessly painting yourself as a meek victim; you're using logical sophistry, and you are most certainly insulting people's intelligence. You are not approaching this discussion honestly or respectably. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #73 July 1, 2009 QuoteQuoteMy take: everyone has a soul; those with faith know they have it. Correction: They believe they have it. They can't know of the existence of something which can't be proven to exist. Once again, see Russell's Teapot. ....It is called faith. Some have it and unfortunately, some don't. QuoteChristians have been scorned an beaten for 2000 yrs. This makes Christians different from just about every other religion and ethnic group in the world...how?..... For one thing, China, Russia, and certain countries fear Christianity because they fear it equates with freedom and democracy.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,406 #74 July 1, 2009 >What has changed or been embellished? Ah, that is a baited question. An excellent question, and one we will never answer. We can't go back and check. >It would take weeks to search out and compare translations to determine >their accuracy. Weeks? Decades is more like it. People have made the study of the various translations their life's work. There have been ecumenical councils that have altered the Bible, discarded parts of it, added others. The Shepherd of Hermas was discarded; the 3rd epistles of John were added. The New Testament that we recognize today was not really cohesive until about AD 350. Since then, other religions (like Mormonism) have added to it, others (Judaism) reject parts of it. Who's accurate? I think they're all accurate to some degree; they are all doing the best they can to determine what _really_ happened over 2000 years ago, and no one is going to be 100% accurate over those time scales. >You may not buy in but you can't disprove it. Nor can you prove it. Indeed, the effort to do so is sort of a waste of time. It's not a historical document. It's not a history or a science book. It's not a genealogy. It's the oral record of the beginnings of a religion, recorded as well as imperfect men can record such things. >My personal experience was not a movie. It was life changing reality. If all that is required for validation of that experience is a feeling (i.e. feeling your spirit soar) then that movie, for someone, could be every bit as valid for them as your feelings are for you. This isn't to say that your feelings on the subject are wrong; indeed, if they work for you, that's all that matters. And if you want to tell other people about them, great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #75 July 1, 2009 QuotePoor Christians, only representing 1/3rd of the general population and all. I wonder how many athiests have been beaten and scorned in the past 2000 years. They burned witches in Salem not that long ago. Superstution over came the word. Christians are not infallible, and the Bible recognizes this.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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makeithappen40 0 #61 June 30, 2009 >It is not my job to convince anyone of anything. I have nothing to gain. Oh. Just thought you were spreading the message of God on an internet forum and at the drop zone. Oops. >That's it. That is the essence exactly. Without faith it is impossible to please God. The Bible says we are all given a seed of faith. We have to nurture it to make it grow. Wait, who is God again? Oh ok. He is god. Did he say that you must please him, and if he did, where did you get the notion that faith is what pleases God? Oh. It was written in the Bible. A document that has been torn to shreds and re-written and handed down through 2000 years of war, crusades, and Kentucky Fried Chicken openings. The document isn't what it used to be. It hurts me as much as it hurts you. >The New Testament book of John Chapter 3, verse 16 See above. The New Testament? Ahh. A revision of the word of God by a man. Crap. >They work for me. I think they will work for others because of my experience in life and I believe the Bible is truth. Yea well so does murdering Jewish people. The German people used to get their jollies by lining Jews up in the streets, tatooing them, forcing them to perform "street scrubbing events" and killing them on the streets. "They work for me" isn't the greatest reason to believe in something either. Actually, it looks like that is a rather bad reason now. >Not unless it works for you. It works for me. Try it and see if it works for you. You don't have to tell me. Just go to your secret place and ask Jesus to come into your heart and into your life. See what happens. What if I asked Muhammed? What if I asked Buddha? What happens then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #62 June 30, 2009 Quote>Jesus Christ is one of three things: >1. He was crazy. >2. He was a liar. Or, >3. He is who he says he is. Or, a fourth possibility: He was who he said he was, but time, oral tradition and the natural human tendency to embellish have changed his story somewhat.QuoteWhat has changed or been embellished? Ah, that is a baited question. It would take weeks to search out and compare translations to determine their accuracy. Suffice to say, people have tried to disprove the Scripture and it can't be done. You may not buy in but you can't disprove it. >If a beautiful woman tells you she loves you and gives you a big hug and >a kiss and this makes your spirit soar, is that not a real, verifiable >experience? Can anyone tell you that your experience was false? If you see a movie that shows that happening, and you feel your spirit soar, would you call that a real, verifiable experience? Does that mean the movie is "real?"QuoteMy personal experience was not a movie. It was life changing reality.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #63 June 30, 2009 Quotepeople have tried to disprove the Scripture and it can't be done. You may not buy in but you can't disprove it. You're just repeating and repeating the same rhetorical double-talk that I rebutted in Post #54. Once again: The burden is to prove that the supernatural - including, for example, the Scripture - is true; the burden is NOT to prove that the supernatural is untrue. Being incapable of proof or disproof is not evidence of truth. And I say again: by repeatedly proferring this rhetorical sleight-of-logic, you're insulting our intelligence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #64 June 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteGood message. Despite negative comments, if you manage to get reach one soul, good on you. Even better if he could show that such a thing (the soul) exists.Webster's New World Dictionary defines soul: an entity without material reality, regarded as the spiritual part of a person.... My take: everyone has a soul; those with faith know they have it. Faith and the teaching of the Bible have convinced me. Christians have been scorned an beaten for 2000 yrs. Today they are put in prision and murdered in China and other parts of the world only for practicing their faith.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #65 June 30, 2009 QuoteMy take: everyone has a soul; those with faith know they have it. Correction: They believe they have it. They can't know of the existence of something which can't be proven to exist. Once again, see Russell's Teapot. QuoteChristians have been scorned an beaten for 2000 yrs. This makes Christians different from just about every other religion and ethnic group in the world...how? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
makeithappen40 0 #66 June 30, 2009 Poor Christians, only representing 1/3rd of the general population and all. I wonder how many athiests have been beaten and scorned in the past 2000 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #67 June 30, 2009 Quote this kind of question insults our intelligence.QuoteWasn't that kinda the purpose of Jesus' ministry while here on earth. Specifically, He made fools of the intellectual elite. I'm not smart enough to do that. I just barely made it through graduate school. For me every term was a sudden death playoff. All I wanted to do was collect my GI Bill. You are a attorney. You spend your days and earn your living attacking people's beliefs and discounting their evidence. I'm not a worthy opponent for you. I have focused a major portion of my life offering encouragement and exhortation to the down trodden, confused, chemically dependent. My original post was an inspirational message to Christian skydivers. I can't debate what has saved my life, my career, my hopes and my dreams. It is what it is. If someone is at their wits end and in desperate need, there is an answer of hope and substance that has proven to be beneficial to many millions since the creation of man. I hate to hear that someone met an untimely death through suicide or some poor decision while under the influence of a mood altering chemical. Jesus came to heal the sick, restore sight to the blind, set the captives free and to proclaim the Day of the Lord. That is a worthy path to walk in my book.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #68 June 30, 2009 QuoteQuite true over time. All beliefs have their willing martyrs. Quite true over time, quite true immediately, as well! You have been given examples. QuoteThese original followers of Christ were convinced that he was the Messiah, the Son of God. None, not one broke ranks. Um, Judas? You've heard of him, right? Regardless, it is not astonishing, it is not remarkable, it's not even surprising that a man in that place and time could convince others that he was a deity. There may well have been people there who believed it utterly and truly with all their being, but that's not unique and it's not persuasive.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #69 June 30, 2009 What happened on Sunday ? Was it the End of the World again, and I missed it? Darn it. Ok, I promise to keep track and make the next two. What is the attire for the party ? BC/AD Casual ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #70 June 30, 2009 QuoteMy personal experience was not a movie. It was life changing reality. Big woop, but so what? There are millions of Muslims and Buddhists and Hindu's out there who would tell me exactly the same thing. There are even atheists who would say the same thing about the moment they realised there wasn't a god and that they were free. So why on earth should I think that, out of all the different vehicles of salvation I've been told about, the one you credit is the real one?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #71 June 30, 2009 Quote What happened on Sunday ? Was it the End of the World again, Could have been. I woke up on monday morning with man-flu and I've felt like I'm dead ever sinceDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #72 June 30, 2009 QuoteI'm not smart enough to do that. I just barely made it through graduate school. For me every term was a sudden death playoff. All I wanted to do was collect my GI Bill. You are a attorney. You spend your days and earn your living attacking people's beliefs and discounting their evidence. I'm not a worthy opponent for you. Nice try. This isn't about me; and although I'm not going to get sucked into a rebuttal, you clearly have no idea what I do. Actually, I believe you do really know, but are deliberately mischaracterizing it. You're back-handedly attacking others; you're shamelessly painting yourself as a meek victim; you're using logical sophistry, and you are most certainly insulting people's intelligence. You are not approaching this discussion honestly or respectably. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #73 July 1, 2009 QuoteQuoteMy take: everyone has a soul; those with faith know they have it. Correction: They believe they have it. They can't know of the existence of something which can't be proven to exist. Once again, see Russell's Teapot. ....It is called faith. Some have it and unfortunately, some don't. QuoteChristians have been scorned an beaten for 2000 yrs. This makes Christians different from just about every other religion and ethnic group in the world...how?..... For one thing, China, Russia, and certain countries fear Christianity because they fear it equates with freedom and democracy.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #74 July 1, 2009 >What has changed or been embellished? Ah, that is a baited question. An excellent question, and one we will never answer. We can't go back and check. >It would take weeks to search out and compare translations to determine >their accuracy. Weeks? Decades is more like it. People have made the study of the various translations their life's work. There have been ecumenical councils that have altered the Bible, discarded parts of it, added others. The Shepherd of Hermas was discarded; the 3rd epistles of John were added. The New Testament that we recognize today was not really cohesive until about AD 350. Since then, other religions (like Mormonism) have added to it, others (Judaism) reject parts of it. Who's accurate? I think they're all accurate to some degree; they are all doing the best they can to determine what _really_ happened over 2000 years ago, and no one is going to be 100% accurate over those time scales. >You may not buy in but you can't disprove it. Nor can you prove it. Indeed, the effort to do so is sort of a waste of time. It's not a historical document. It's not a history or a science book. It's not a genealogy. It's the oral record of the beginnings of a religion, recorded as well as imperfect men can record such things. >My personal experience was not a movie. It was life changing reality. If all that is required for validation of that experience is a feeling (i.e. feeling your spirit soar) then that movie, for someone, could be every bit as valid for them as your feelings are for you. This isn't to say that your feelings on the subject are wrong; indeed, if they work for you, that's all that matters. And if you want to tell other people about them, great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #75 July 1, 2009 QuotePoor Christians, only representing 1/3rd of the general population and all. I wonder how many athiests have been beaten and scorned in the past 2000 years. They burned witches in Salem not that long ago. Superstution over came the word. Christians are not infallible, and the Bible recognizes this.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
