How to use the truth

[wmw999 2,164]

Here's a really good example of rhetoric. The facts are all true, and the conclusion might be as well for some folks.

Those of you who think that Obama is evil incarnate, step back and consider these facts, particularly when you rail about "hiring the best-qualified candidate" and deciding what that means.

Those of you who think that McCain is evil incarnate, consider how truthful and full this picture is, and whether you go looking for more information.

Sometimes the picture just isn't complete. Kind of like the close-up of a beautiful model that doesn't show that she's nekkid

Anyway:

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SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT-----

Hi All - We are at a major crossroad in the history of the United States of America. Here is one of the greatest challenges facing us today.

How Racism Works...

What if John McCain were a former president of the Harvard Law Review?
What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

What if McCain were still married to the first woman he said 'I do' to?
What if Obama were the candidate who left his first wife after she no longer measured up to his standards?

What if Michelle Obama were a wife who not only became addicted to pain killers, but acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?
What if Cindy McCain graduated from Princeton (BA) and Harvard Law (JD)?

What if Obama were a member of the Keating-5?
What if McCain were a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are? This is what racism does.
It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference.

You are The Boss... which team would you hire?

With America facing historic debt, 2 wars, stumbling health care, a weakened dollar, all-time high prison population, mortgage crises, bank foreclosures, etc.

Educational Background:

Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude (which means he was ranked high)

Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

Now, which team are you going to hire ?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[klingeme 0]

And what if McCains wife said "There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the WHITE community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the WHITE community first and foremost."

Would she be considered a member of the KKK?

[rhys 0]

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Would she be considered a member of the KKK?

That scenario wouldn't work as the hypothetical parellel universe we are talking about would have had the white folk traded a slaves and ostracised in general, the KKK would be wearing black cloaks and burning crosses on the white folks lawns.

So, no not really.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[klingeme 0]

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Would she be considered a member of the KKK?

That scenario wouldn't work as the hypothetical parellel universe we are talking about would have had the white folk traded a slaves and ostracised in general, the KKK would be wearing black cloaks and burning crosses on the white folks lawns.

So, no not really.

Maybe I was being a bit extreme, but the door swings both ways here. If saying Obama had all of McCains "creditials" and visa versa, the wives statements would come into play.

I didn't set up this "Parallel universe" the OP did.

[downwardspiral 0]

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And what if McCains wife said "There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the WHITE community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the WHITE community first and foremost."

Would she be considered a member of the KKK?

And what if McCain's preacher of 20 years exclaimed,"God damn America" during a bigotted laced sermon?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[downwardspiral 0]

I'm actually very surprised you would post something like this Wendy. This assumes we only need to look at where a person was educated to consider him or her for the Oval Office. This assumes Obama is the white knight of American politics and there is no reasonable issue to be had with him. Essentially this assumes the reader is a moron.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[billvon 2,454]

>And what if McCain's preacher of 20 years exclaimed,"God damn America"
>during a bigotted laced sermon?

He would have been ignored to the extent that Hagee and Parsley have been ignored, who have variously said:

that Hitler was doing his duty as a Catholic
that the Catholic church was "the Great Whore"
their followers should ready themselves to kill liberal pastors
that Jews should be treated as Christ-killers

But since they are white conservative preachers, that's OK, and conservatives instead spend their time explaining how those pastors are NOTHING LIKE Rev. Wright.

[wmw999 2,164]

Did you read the part that I wrote? It was about considering the facts around something, not just the simple story.

I see plenty of stuff indicating that education or top-level visible qualifications should be what gets one a job in the face of affirmative action. All this post does is show that there's more to it than that; you can't only use "the facts" (carefully selected, of course) to support your own point of view.

Pretty much every fact has a context.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[diverborg 0]

Wow, I didn't even realize that I wasn't voting for Obama because I'm racist.

This is absolute horse poopy!

I guess come to think of it, I would probably vote for him if he was a white man.

[billvon 2,454]

>Wow, I didn't even realize that I wasn't voting for Obama because I'm racist.

Some people are indeed racist and are not voting for a given candidate for that reason. The videos of their interviews are available on Youtube if you want them. Doesn't mean everyone who votes for or against a given candidate is racist, of course.

[livendive 8]

And what if McCain's wife denounced her two half-sisters, claimed to be an only child (even at her father's funeral, with one of them present), and didn't share any of her rather large fortune with them? Would she be vilified like Obama has been for not sending money to his half-brother in another country? Oh...wait, maybe I already know the answer to this question.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[klingeme 0]

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And what if McCain's wife denounced her two half-sisters, claimed to be an only child (even at her father's funeral, with one of them present), and didn't share any of her rather large fortune with them? Would she be vilified like Obama has been for not sending money to his half-brother in another country? Oh...wait, maybe I already know the answer to this question.

Blues,
Dave

I'm getting confused. Is this alternative world where everthing is reversed, or the regular way?

Is it Obama or McCain that has the half brother in another country?

I don't see how whis matters though, becuase half sisters and half brothers hardly have the influence that the person sleeping in the same bed as the president has. I want a first lady that thinks we all deserve to have her supporting (in whatever capacity she does) us equally rather than an attitude like this: "There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost."

[billvon 2,454]

> I want a first lady that thinks we all deserve to have her supporting (in whatever
>capacity she does) us equally rather than an attitude like this . . .

And I want a "first man" who doesn't belong to a separatist organization that wants to see the United States torn apart.

Fortunately, in both cases, what the candidate does/believes is more important than what their spouse believes.

[klingeme 0]

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>Wow, I didn't even realize that I wasn't voting for Obama because I'm racist.

Some people are indeed racist and are not voting for a given candidate for that reason. The videos of their interviews are available on Youtube if you want them. Doesn't mean everyone who votes for or against a given candidate is racist, of course.

And how many Black First Time voters are voting for Obama simply because he is Black?

[Andy9o8 0]

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And what if McCain's wife denounced her two half-sisters, claimed to be an only child (even at her father's funeral, with one of them present), and didn't share any of her rather large fortune with them? Would she be vilified like Obama has been for not sending money to his half-brother in another country? Oh...wait, maybe I already know the answer to this question.

Blues,
Dave

I'm getting confused. Is this alternative world where everthing is reversed, or the regular way?

Is it Obama or McCain that has the half brother in another country?

I don't see how whis matters though, becuase half sisters and half brothers hardly have the influence that the person sleeping in the same bed as the president has. I want a first lady that thinks we all deserve to have her supporting (in whatever capacity she does) us equally rather than an attitude like this: "There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost."

Mark, don't insult our intelligence. There are plenty of people who profess -especially in their youth - (Michelle was a university student) to put first and foremost emphasis to benefit their ethnic group, or their religion, or a particular ideological agenda. For example, some people who are very staunchly anti-abortion.

[klingeme 0]

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And what if McCain's wife denounced her two half-sisters, claimed to be an only child (even at her father's funeral, with one of them present), and didn't share any of her rather large fortune with them? Would she be vilified like Obama has been for not sending money to his half-brother in another country? Oh...wait, maybe I already know the answer to this question.

Blues,
Dave

I'm getting confused. Is this alternative world where everthing is reversed, or the regular way?

Is it Obama or McCain that has the half brother in another country?

I don't see how whis matters though, becuase half sisters and half brothers hardly have the influence that the person sleeping in the same bed as the president has. I want a first lady that thinks we all deserve to have her supporting (in whatever capacity she does) us equally rather than an attitude like this: "There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost."

Mark, don't insult our intelligence. There are plenty of people who profess -especially in their youth - (Michelle was a university student) to put first and foremost emphasis to benefit their ethnic group, or their religion, or a particular ideological agenda. For example, some people who are very staunchly anti-abortion.

I have supported an unborn's right to life over a woman's right of convenience (Choice). I did when I was in college (11-14 years ago) and will forever.

She said when she was in college that she would "utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost." Barack is one hell of a resource to accomplish her goals. Having the ear of and sleeping next to the president of the US should help her accomplish her life long goal.

Mark Klingelhoefer

[nerdgirl 0]

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I'm getting confused. Is this alternative world where everthing is reversed, or the regular way?

Perhaps it is …

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I don't see how whis matters though, becuase half sisters and half brothers hardly have the influence that the person sleeping in the same bed as the president has. I want a first lady that thinks we all deserve to have her supporting (in whatever capacity she does) us equally rather than an attitude like this: "There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost."

Mark, don't insult our intelligence. There are plenty of people who profess -especially in their youth - (Michelle was a university student) to put first and foremost emphasis to benefit their ethnic group, or their religion, or a particular ideological agenda.

She said when she was in college that she would "utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost." Barack is one hell of a resource to accomplish her goals. Having the ear of and sleeping next to the president of the US should help her accomplish her life long goal.


Quoting this because it is approporiate and timely:

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“Part of my keeping my opinion to myself has to do with the arrogant distain that some on this forum have with opinions that vary from theirs.

It seems that some … [insert some favorite group to generalize about/criticize] … don't like questions.”

Should Michelle Obama not be allowed to ask questions?
Are you proposing that only questions that you approve or think appropriate should be written about by students?
Do you know what was the question underlying her thesis?

Perhaps, more insightful, did you ever read more of the thesis than the incendiary snippets? The full thesis is readily available online.

What you keep quoting was part of her hypothesis (literally page 2), i.e., the set-up for the question she was asking:

“Earlier in my career, there was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the Black community I was somehow obligated to this community and would utilize all of present and future resources to benefit this community first and foremost.”

Continuing on page 3 (still the hypothesis):

“At the same time, however, it is conceivable that my four years of exposure to a predominantly White, Ivy League University has instilled within me certain conservative values. For example, as I enter my final year at Princeton, I find myself striving for many of the same goals as my White classmates – acceptance to a prestigious graduate or professional school or a high paying position in a successful corporation. Thus, my goals after Princeton are not as clear as before.”

“Is it possible that other Black alumni share these feelings? Do most alumni experience a change in their attitudes; and, if so, how are they likely to change? This study will try to provide some answers to these questions.”

She did a survey of Princeton students and Princeton alumni. She’s not asserting what you keep quoting - she’s questioning it and questioning how that sentiment changes for Princeton graduates.

She's not even doing what [Angy9o8] suggested, she's questioning the sentiment.

And the “Major Conclusion” (p. 53):

“The major conclusion to be drawn from the findings of the study is as follows: despite the respondents’ sense of community with Blacks and Whites, their motivation to benefit the Black community, or their attitudes toward the Black lower class before Princeton, more respondents tended to identify with Blacks during Princeton in every measured respect. However, after Princeton this identification decreased dramatically.”

The more interesting & more challenging (in multiple ways) questions are why is the text of her thesis intentionally misconstrued? Why are the other parts left out? Why do so many people so easily believe and perpetuate that misconstruction? Why don’t more people investigate for themselves? The internet makes information more readily available yet is this an indication that even with greater available information people still largely seek out sources that reinforce the opinions that they already hold?

And then less interesting but perhaps more likely to occur than non-flippant answers being posed: will I be called a “communist” or received a condescending, insulting, &/or patronizing reply because I asked those questions? Or will I just get PMs calling me a “stupid bitch” and “elitist cunt”?

In the end one might also ask if this is another example fitting the quote in the OP?

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[livendive 8]

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And what if McCain's wife denounced her two half-sisters, claimed to be an only child (even at her father's funeral, with one of them present), and didn't share any of her rather large fortune with them? Would she be vilified like Obama has been for not sending money to his half-brother in another country? Oh...wait, maybe I already know the answer to this question.

Blues,
Dave

I'm getting confused. Is this alternative world where everthing is reversed, or the regular way?

Is it Obama or McCain that has the half brother in another country?

I guess I didn't follow the trend of the thread. Obama does indeed have a half brother in another country that he doesn't really know and he has been dragged across the coals for not sending him money. Cindy McCain also has two half sisters who live in the same country as her, whom she does not claim and with whom she has not shared her rather large inheritance. I've not seen her accused of having poor character for this

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I don't see how whis matters though, becuase half sisters and half brothers hardly have the influence that the person sleeping in the same bed as the president has. I want a first lady that thinks we all deserve to have her supporting (in whatever capacity she does) us equally rather than an attitude like this: "There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost."

Apparently you put more weight in an undergrad essay written 20+ years ago than I do. Of course I also read the paper's conclusions rather than just the soundbite in the introduction.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 2,454]

>And how many Black First Time voters are voting for Obama simply
>because he is Black?

You might want to re-read my post. I mentioned nothing about whites.

[klingeme 0]

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>And how many Black First Time voters are voting for Obama simply
>because he is Black?

You might want to re-read my post. I mentioned nothing about whites.

I appologize. When you said

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Some people are indeed racist and are not voting for a given candidate for that reason. The videos of their interviews are available on Youtube if you want them. Doesn't mean everyone who votes for or against a given candidate is racist, of course.

I took it as refering to whites, as most people think that there is no such thing as a "racist Black Person".

Mark Klingelhoefer

[MegaGoliath11 0]

yeah just cling to that one sound bite man! down with Obama! That over educated SOB with the plan to destroy America! His wife is running this whole charade to punish whitey!

[MegaGoliath11 0]

yeah man c'mon stop clinging to sound bites. You can't damn Obama for what people around him say if you don't flame McCain for all his insidious ties in Washington. remember all the candidates except Biden have had to distance themselves from their pastors.

Have you ever been out with your dad or mom and they said some racist/questionable shit and thought to yourself geez! where do you come up with this stuff.

Let's all face the music. McCain is not out to destroy America he wants to become President to fix things.

Obama is not out to destroy America with his secret sleeper squad of Muslim reformers, he wants to become President to fix things.

Why do people continue to cling to sound bites that the candidates are not directly tied to. Now personal facts are hard to escape as wendy pointed out.

[MegaGoliath11 0]

ok ok now I know you are a Marine, so you must feel a certain tinge of emotion when you hear that SEN McCain was ranked 894-899 in his grad class. You know as well as I that we get ranked in the military. We get ranked in schools, evaluations, awards etc. If you don't get top 10 percent then I say no slight at all, not top 20 percent? no prob. not top 30 percent ok whatever, not top 50 percent? wait hmm..... long silence not top 95% holy cow! I mean did you even fucking try soldier!.

Did you take it seriously!? I mean how many guys went to that school and were overjoyed that they got in, and treated it as part of their life's work. But oh know McCain too good for that. His father got him in and made sure he graduated.

I mean I know he reformed himself after and became a hero and champion of POWs and later kinda turn their back on them.

read this article that sorta sums up John McCain POW/MIA involvement. http://www.vvof.org/mccain_hides.htm

[wmw999 2,164]

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yeah man c'mon stop clinging to sound bites. You can't damn Obama for what people around him say if you don't flame McCain for all his insidious ties in Washington.

I need a smoochie icon
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,454]

>as most people think that there is no such thing as a "racist Black Person".

Racism doesn't care about your skin color. You can be white, black, red, yellow or green.