Acquittals in Sean Bell's shooting spark outrage

[friendstersux 0]

posted twice

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!

[friendstersux 0]

Unarmed black man. Unarmed GROOM etc ..

These catch phrases have been regurgitated by the liberal media over and over.

I cordially invite ANY reporter to stand in front of my vehicle as I run them over, and after they wake from their coma, I challenge them to report that I was not "ARMED" with a vehicle, and using it unlawfully, when I intentionally ran them down.

If I take a pen from my pocket, and jam it into your eye and blind you. I am guilty of assault. I was armed with a pen. An object that is not traditionally viewed as a weapon, can in fact, by virtue of the manner in which it is used BE a weapon. Most assuredly, Sean Bell was armed that night. Armed with a vehicle. And most likely intoxicated, which makes that vehicle a weapon even moreso.

When a NYC Police Officer who was intox killed a family of four, he was quickly demonized by the liberal, cop hating media, because he used his vehicle as a weapon.

Amazing. A vehicle in the hands of a white cop is a weapon. In the hands of a young black male, it is not. The double standard is alive and well in media circles. Journalistic integrity has gone the way of the Do-Do bird.

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!

[auburnguy 0]

I think its funny how Sharpton has threatened to "shut down this city" (nyc). I am going to hold my tongue from the copious amounts of easy jokes here.

"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

[GQ_jumper 4]

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So you're happy to see Sharpton up in arms about unarmed people being shot at?

Don't twist my words, as has been mentioned before, COUNTLESS TIMES, he had a vehicle, a vehicle has the potential to be far deadlier of a weapon than a pistol. Remember the old man that drove through the farmer's market??

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This is a police training issue.

Agreed 100% And the department is closely scrutinizing the events so they can see what needs to be done to retrain or punish those involved and ensure that they take steps to prevent further events from happening.

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but I know a vehicle doesn't need 51 shots unloaded.

Have you ever seen how pistol rounds work against regular vehicles? Everyone screaming about how they shouldn't need so many rounds to hit a target inside a vehicle, everyone seems to be the expert on something they've never tested. You could sit in the drivers seat of a car, put a target at the end of the hood and unload a mag through the windshield at the target and from only 4-5 feet away not hit that target once. Glass has a huge effect on the tajectory of rounds, Even high powered rounds, like a sniper round would need to be offset to hit a target. And rounds passing through the body of the car inconsistently penetrate, I've seen a round go clean through the door while a round right next to it failed to. There is no consistency, so everyone screaming about how it shouldn't take that many shots has no clue what they are talking about. If you are trying to stop a vehicle you aim at the windshield and dump rounds trying to break it up so your rounds will go where you aim.

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But its all good cause you can look at Sharpton calling for some sense of justice.

The only reason that ass-clown is calling for anything is because there was a story about a black man being on the recieving end of an unfortunate incident and there were white people involved. If this same situation happened to a white guy I doubt it would've recieved half the attention. He's getting everyone all stirred up just so he can raise his stature with the black community to forward his career.

These officers were acquitted on murder charges just like anybody would have been in that situation, they weren't tried as officers, they were tried as suspects. The judicial system worked just as it should, and if people have issues with the verdict than push for a reform of the justice system, maybe we could get judges to render verdicts based on popular opinion, or better yet maybe everyone who's been watching on the news could text the verdict like you do when you vote on American Idol, would justice be served then?

These men still face the civil suit and an investigation by their department and will most certainly see some sort of punishment. Justice will be served despite the fact that we didn't burn them at the stake to appease the local black community that the great Rev. has gotten to rally against the same force that is sworn to protect them, and 99.99999% of the time does so successfully. All Sharpton is doing is making it harder for the NYPD to do their jobs, he isn't helping anyone, he's making the situation worse to benefit himself.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[kschilk 0]

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but I know a vehicle doesn't need 51 shots unloaded.

Have you ever seen how pistol rounds work against regular vehicles? Everyone screaming about how they shouldn't need so many rounds to hit a target inside a vehicle, everyone seems to be the expert on something they've never tested. You could sit in the drivers seat of a car, put a target at the end of the hood and unload a mag through the windshield at the target and from only 4-5 feet away not hit that target once. Glass has a huge effect on the tajectory of rounds, Even high powered rounds, like a sniper round would need to be offset to hit a target. And rounds passing through the body of the car inconsistently penetrate, I've seen a round go clean through the door while a round right next to it failed to. There is no consistency, so everyone screaming about how it shouldn't take that many shots has no clue what they are talking about. If you are trying to stop a vehicle you aim at the windshield and dump rounds trying to break it up so your rounds will go where you aim.

That is NOT the way to stop a vehicle with a gun. One shot, through the paper-thin kickpanel and into the computer, would be the smart thing to do. Shooting at the driver, won't stop the vehicle. A smart second shot, would be at the airbag sensor, to pretty much incapacitate everyone inside the vehicle. Even a li'l "backscratcher" like a .380, 9 or 10mm could stop a car, if you hit it in a kill-zone.

"T'was ever thus."

[friendstersux 0]

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I know about as much as my dog about guns, but I know a vehicle doesn't need 51 shots unloaded. My ex used to take me target shooting and I have a pretty good idea of what it takes to drop a magazine and put in a new one. How's about ducking behind that big van they said Bell hit while they figured out if they were shooting back?

So you would seriously have enough time and react quick enough to duck behind a van from a speeding vehicle that is firing shots back at you? Tell us more about your superpowers.

They say that "50 shots is murder" - but with three officers involved it sounds to me like, between the three of them, each emptied his magazine - with one or more reloading and firing several more shots. In addition, they fail to account for the fact that they were shooting at night and that officers are trained to keep shooting until the threat is eliminated. In this case, the threat was a moving vehicle. Although it may have been sloppy police work, 50 handgun rounds at a moving vehicle is not, in my opinion, overkill. Read full article

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!

[friendstersux 0]

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Problem here is that the term "gunfight", usually denotes two or more people, shooting at each other. As I understand it, only the cops were armed so that isn't a gunfight....that's a turkey-shoot. Sorry....but if I couldn't hit the guy (in this case...a close, stationary target) in 10 shots, I'd walk up to 'im and beat 'im to death with the gun.

When did you become such an authority in whether or not this was justified and about this situation being a turkey shoot? Were you there? Would you be so calm, cool and collective that you would done otherwise? I think not.

In the Queens shooting, even if the men in the car were unarmed, police had reason to be worried about the car, careening back and forth, according to Michael Palladino, Detectives' Endowment Association. "I do not think the amount of shots were excessive because there was deadly physical force used against our detectives and the detectives used deadly physical force back. They continued to fire until the threat against them ceased, " he has said. As in Queens, a police officer can fear death - even if the suspect does not have a gun. In the death of Gidone Busch, a jury agreed that the police had reason to fear - and fire 13 times at - the mentally ill man wielding a hammer. Read full article

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!

[Amazon 7]

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In the Queens shooting, even if the men in the car were unarmed, police had reason to be worried about the car, careening back and forth, according to Michael Palladino, Detectives' Endowment Association. "I do not think the amount of shots were excessive because there was deadly physical force used against our detectives and the detectives used deadly physical force back. They continued to fire until the threat against them ceased, " he has said. As in Queens, a police officer can fear death - even if the suspect does not have a gun. In the death of Gidone Busch, a jury agreed that the police had reason to fear - and fire 13 times at - the mentally ill man wielding a hammer.

I see you are just fine with living in a police state.. where the police are held infallible for their actions.

[friendstersux 0]

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Them cops must have been scared shitless of that wall of NOTHING coming back at them, even of the 1st shot.

Wow. You were obviously there that night and determined that it was indeed a wall of nothing....interesting. What else did you see happening on that very night when you were there?

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I agree with kschilk - 51 shots .vs. ZERO that's NONE, Fuck All, nada, nowt, Zip (get the point yet?) = Turkey Shoot - wankers.

Another superhero wannabe...you're telling me that if you were a cop and a speeding car was coming at you and possibly firing shots back at you that you would totally react in a different way? Another interesting point. Where did you get your formal training at? All LEO's could definitely use your calm, cool, collectiveness and alternate strategies for some revised field training.

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!

[friendstersux 0]

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I see you are just fine with living in a police state.. where the police are held infallible for their actions.

Infallible for what actions? For defending themselves because they were in fear of losing their lives? I guess you're telling me that you were there that night too and that you would have changed the script on the events that followed, correct?

I'm so amazed at how many combat qualified individuals that post here can actually say that they would react differently. You all should seriously sign up and employ yourselves as field trainers for all LEOs. They are obviously in desperate need of your help. Please hurry and sign up.

I am not combat qualified. I am not calm, cool and collective under life threatening situations. I would have probably have frozen and got mowed down if a speeding car came at me possibly firing shots at me. At least I can admit that I wouldn't know how I would react in that situation if it was presented to me rather than replaying the scene and arm chair quarterbacking this situation.

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!

[shropshire 0]

So you were there too... how many shots did you see fired at the cops? How fast was the car going and who was it aimed at exactly? What were the cops wearing and what did they say to the people that they shot? Did they identify them selves correctly or at all? Come on you're the expert, justify the round ratio.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Amazon 7]

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I am not combat qualified. I am not calm, cool and collective under life threatening situations. I would have probably have frozen and got mowed down if a speeding car came at me possibly firing shots at me.

Perhaps this might not be the sport for you...


THis was a case of police overreacting... just more macho bullshit in thinking they can doi anything they want to use their weapons to stop the dirtbags... perps... skells...or you can add the terms they PROBABLY were using given the ethnicity.

[friendstersux 0]

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LEOs have a specific job to do, and as such, they must be able to perform well in high stress, high risk situations. If you cannot perform the appropriate actions in those instances, you shouldn't be a cop. Likewise, you shouldn't be a TI if you consistantly end up under a CYPRES-deployed reserve, agreed?

Where did you get your combat training at? Please, do tell. Cops are so robotic that they aren't human and can perform well under high risk situations, right? That is so deep man. Thanks for shedding some light on this situation.

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Pulling a weapon as a plainclothes cop, without clearly identifying yourself as such, is a MAJOR fuckup. Did that happen? We don't know for sure, but 2 witnesses say yes. Did the vehicle drive towards the cops? Once again, we don't know. Should the cops have been within close enough proximity to move out of the way without firing a LOT of bullets for fear of their lives? Many think so.

So you believe that the officers didn't identify themselves that night? You based this on what? On what two people said, trent benefield and pablo guzman, right? This is coming from two hardcore criminals with a serious rap sheet. Therefore, two guys that have prior criminal records involving guns & drugs are such credible witnesses to attest that police officers that night did not identify themselves. Wow.

Take a look at the attached photo. It's trent benefield in his myspace picture showing off all the donations that he received after the shooting. Look at how he's mourning the loss of his friend by showing off his pay dirt. Read the full blog for the young hip hop community

Here's a excerpt from the blog: Shit like this is why reparations will NEVER be a real political issue. There are just too many coons out there ready to act the damn fool for that second of shine.

This also raises the question of what exactly where these dudes doing in a shady strip club that night. I still think the NYPD officers involved fucked the fuck up and deserve serious prison time for what they did, but Sean Bell and everyone in the car all had real criminal records (I'm not talking about jaywalking) and shit like this makes it seem like profiling only happens to "bad" black people.

When Trent Benefield is the face of your tragedy it makes it harder to unify your cry for racial justice.

For calling out your coon status and shedding light on the many social issues this case brings up, Trent Benefield is the Snitch of the Week. It's over for black people.

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!

[friendstersux 0]

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So you were there too... how many shots did you see fired at the cops? How fast was the car going and who was it aimed at exactly? What were the cops wearing and what did they say to the people that they shot? Did they identify them selves correctly or at all? Come on you're the expert, justify the round ratio.

You've got it all wrong. I am going by the court testimonies, evidence presented and the judge's verdict. It's all clearly stated in news articles. As any american, I put trust in the justice system. Case and point.

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!

[friendstersux 0]

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Perhaps this might not be the sport for you...

Wow, you really are a jack of all trades. I am so impressed. I guess being a 900 jump wonder and having a D license qualifies you to determine whether or not a 3 jump student is competent to jump in this sport. I guess I was strapped in front of you during my tandem jumps, right? I guess you were calm, cool and collective when you started in this sport, right? And from what you're saying from proper and repetitive training from qualified instructors regarding emergency procedures determine that this sport is not for me just because I'm not calm, cool and collective under life threatening situations. Wow, you really are good. Not only are you combat trained but you are also a psychic and you know me very well. You are good, I have to admit. Anyway, let's stick to the point and not pull how much jumps and how many licenses you hold over me, okay? Don't veer away from the subject. Afterall, those are forum guidelines, right?

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THis was a case of police overreacting... just more macho bullshit in thinking they can doi anything they want to use their weapons to stop the dirtbags... perps... skells...or you can add the terms they PROBABLY were using given the ethnicity.

Stop being so judgemental and hateful. Why don't you join al sharpton's rally in new york. He could use your psychic abilities. Rather than reading a few articles and clouding your judgement from personal feelings about this situation, why don't you read about the evidence presented in court, the credibility of the witnesses and how the judge came about his verdict. Thank goodness you are not a judge because you would probably decapitate everyone, right?

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!

[NJSkydiver 0]

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THis was a case of police overreacting... just more macho bullshit in thinking they can doi anything they want to use their weapons to stop the dirtbags... perps... skells...or you can add the terms they PROBABLY were using given the ethnicity.

I agree with the majority of posters here. all cops want to do is take away your civil rights and shoot to kill the minorities! if you don't believe that, get out from that bubble you live in! where the hell are all the cops here in this forum? let's hear what you have to say!

- What do I owe beer for this time?

[Amazon 7]

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Stop being so judgemental and hateful. Why don't you join al sharpton's rally in new york. He could use your psychic abilities. Rather than reading a few articles and clouding your judgement from personal feelings about this situation, why don't you read about the evidence presented in court, the credibility of the witnesses and how the judge came about his verdict. Thank goodness you are not a judge because you would probably decapitate everyone, right?

Yes I am judgemental.. a man is dead because a gang of cops attacked a group of citizens exercising their right to go where they want in our supposed Land of the Free. I am sure the gang got together and made sure they got their stories in sync for your court documents... but their actions that night speak volumes about who and what they are.



AS far as my skydiving... I started in 1972. I was apprehensive but
I have always dealt with stressfull situations quite well. I have 8 cutaways under life threatening situations. I also have participated in many other life threatening situations. Learning to deal with them is a measure of personal survival. I have seen far too many people who have panicked in situations and they only survived by sheer stupid luck. Others... did not survive. Your milage may vary.


If as you say you dont deal well with that.... well.. good luck

[NJSkydiver 0]

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Yes I am judgemental.. a man is dead because a gang of cops attacked a group of citizens exercising their right to go where they want in our supposed Land of the Free. I am sure the gang got together and made sure they got their stories in sync for your court documents... but their actions that night speak volumes about who and what they are.

cops are crooked, cops are evil, and they do not respect citizens of this country. the cops went out that night with intentions to arrest and hurt someone, it's a given otherwise they would be in a police car eating donuts. I'm glad I'm not the only one here that hates cops.

- What do I owe beer for this time?

[lawrocket 3]

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As any american, I put trust in the justice system. Case and point.

Not even I fully trust the American justice system.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

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Yes I am judgemental.. a man is dead because a gang of cops attacked a group of citizens exercising their right to go where they want in our supposed Land of the Free. I am sure the gang got together and made sure they got their stories in sync for your court documents... but their actions that night speak volumes about who and what they are.

cops are crooked, cops are evil, and they do not respect citizens of this country. the cops went out that night with intentions to arrest and hurt someone, it's a given otherwise they would be in a police car eating donuts. I'm glad I'm not the only one here that hates cops.

Most cops are good and respect the citizens of this country. The vast majority are great. There are those, however, that are loose cannons, to say the least.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

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Most cops are good and respect the citizens of this country. The vast majority are great. There are those, however, that are loose cannons, to say the least.

Thank you.

Personally I would not like to live in a country without the police . Most of the cops I know are hard working good people. Some of them may be a bit jhaded after having to deal with the less law abiding citizens we have but most of them do not see everyone around them as out to get the cops. Police work is difficult.. dealing with some people who prepetrate crimes is difficult.

BUT I will not give a pass to the BAD cops out there that DO feel we are against them..... the ones who get on power trips and do believe they can literally get away with murder as loing as they get their stories straight. There is little difference between them... and those people they are SUPPOSED to be protecting us from.

[friendstersux 0]

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Yes I am judgmental..

Let me take a page out of your judgmental book here for a bit....

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a gang of cops attacked a group of citizens exercising their right to go where they want in our supposed Land of the Free.

3 hardcore criminals went into a well known illegal location for drugs, prostitution and guns were exercising their right to go into such a bonafide premises. It's such a free country that they can go into such an illegal location to be free and disregard what the law says about drugs and prostitution, right? Such fine and upstanding citizens they are/were.

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I am sure the gang got together and made sure they got their stories in sync for your court documents

3 different cops that were in 3 different places at the same time. Therefore, you are saying that they all had the same story, which is how their stories synced up, right? You really need to get your facts straight. If you did, you would realize that one cop was outside approaching the suspects getting into their car, another cop was inside an undercover cop car and another cop was in a undercover police minivan that was struck by sean bell's car. Gee, I can see how their stories synced up because they were obviously the same stories. The fact is 3 different cops, 3 different stories. One started shooting in fear for his life of being mowed down and being fired upon and the other two followed suit to eliminate the threat.

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AS far as my skydiving... I started in 1972. I was apprehensive but
I have always dealt with stressfull situations quite well. I have 8 cutaways under life threatening situations. I also have participated in many other life threatening situations. Learning to deal with them is a measure of personal survival. I have seen far too many people who have panicked in situations and they only survived by sheer stupid luck. Others... did not survive. Your milage may vary.


If as you say you dont deal well with that.... well.. good luck

There you go again veering away from the subject at hand. Nonetheless, I will entertain you.

So Mr. D license, Mr. 900 jump wonder and Mr. skydiving since 1972, you're basically saying that with proper repetitive training from qualified instructors, regarding emergency procedures, that this sport is not for me? Basically, you are saying everyone that has panicked in situations but survived from cutaways was by sheer stupid luck? Those that did handle themselves well during cutaways are cut from the same mold that you were? Born with dealing well in stressful situations? You are saying it is impossible to develop handling yourself well in emergency situations when you had proper and repetitive training for cutaways? Wow. Thank you. I'm so glad you carved out my short career in skydiving. I'm just going to literally pack it all in. Goodbye ground school. Goodbye AFP. Goodbye dropzone. Mr. Psychic says I won't last so I have to heed his advice.

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!

[friendstersux 0]

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Personally I would not like to live in a country without the police . Most of the cops I know are hard working good people.

This does not sound like you at all.

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BUT I will not give a pass to the BAD cops out there that DO feel we are against them......

You are seriously putting yourself in the category of those 3 men with criminal records?!!! Look at what blogger in a hip hop community forum said about these 3 fine young gentlemen that you put yourself in the same category with:

but Sean Bell and everyone in the car all had real criminal records (I'm not talking about jaywalking) and shit like this makes it seem like profiling only happens to "bad" black people.

When Trent Benefield is the face of your tragedy it makes it harder to unify your cry for racial justice. Read full blog

And this was coming from another black person.

You seriously need to wake up and realize that these 3 criminals are not in your category, unless however, you also go to unlawful locations, have prior criminal records for drugs and gun possession, now do you? I think not.

You do realize that possession of enough drugs to distribute to the public usually means selling to young children, right? Mr. Liberal, you should realize that 2 of these criminals do not belong on the street where they can cause harm to other people. It's unfortunate that the other criminal was shot dead. Nonetheless, it's one less dangerous criminal off the street.

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!

[shropshire 0]

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Yes I am judgemental.. a man is dead because a gang of cops attacked a group of citizens exercising their right to go where they want in our supposed Land of the Free. I am sure the gang got together and made sure they got their stories in sync for your court documents... but their actions that night speak volumes about who and what they are.

cops are crooked, cops are evil, and they do not respect citizens of this country. the cops went out that night with intentions to arrest and hurt someone, it's a given otherwise they would be in a police car eating donuts. I'm glad I'm not the only one here that hates cops.

Most cops are good and respect the citizens of this country. The vast majority are great. There are those, however, that are loose cannons, to say the least.

I'll 2nd that... with....

Most people are good citizens and respectthe law and order of our countries... There are, however those that don't and some of them are also cops.
It shouldn't be that way, but it is. One would hope that fellow cops would rat them out not close ranks and support and defend them... but once again, this happens and it stinks.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[friendstersux 0]

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1.) Plainclothes officers (=civilian/thief/carjacking) drawing weapons, potentially not identifying themselves as LEO.

That statement was made by 2 known felons with serious criminal records regarding police officers not identifying themselves. I guess you chose to believe their side of the story.

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2.) The perceived/actual threat was responded to with deadly force. However, no weapon was found, and reference issue 1.

My post# 27 of 48:

Unarmed black man. Unarmed GROOM etc ..

These catch phrases have been regurgitated by the liberal media over and over.

I cordially invite ANY reporter to stand in front of my vehicle as I run them over, and after they wake from their coma, I challenge them to report that I was not "ARMED" with a vehicle, and using it unlawfully, when I intentionally ran them down.

If I take a pen from my pocket, and jam it into your eye and blind you. I am guilty of assault. I was armed with a pen. An object that is not traditionally viewed as a weapon, can in fact, by virtue of the manner in which it is used BE a weapon. Most assuredly, Sean Bell was armed that night. Armed with a vehicle. And most likely intoxicated, which makes that vehicle a weapon even moreso.

When a NYC Police Officer who was intox killed a family of four, he was quickly demonized by the liberal, cop hating media, because he used his vehicle as a weapon.

Amazing. A vehicle in the hands of a white cop is a weapon. In the hands of a young black male, it is not. The double standard is alive and well in media circles. Journalistic integrity has gone the way of the Do-Do bird.

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3.) Perceived EXCESS deadly force in terms of 50 fired bullets. Whether or not it was excessive, who knows.

My post# 31 of 48:

They say that "50 shots is murder" - but with three officers involved it sounds to me like, between the three of them, each emptied his magazine - with one or more reloading and firing several more shots. In addition, they fail to account for the fact that they were shooting at night and that officers are trained to keep shooting until the threat is eliminated. In this case, the threat was a moving vehicle. Although it may have been sloppy police work, 50 handgun rounds at a moving vehicle is not, in my opinion, overkill. Read full article

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It is commendable that you can get good grouping with your weapons. ALL people who may have to use deadly force for their job should be equivalently accurate, even in a stressful environment. Like I said, can't stand the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen.

You're not the first poster to be a combat expert. Nice arm chair quarterbacking.

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I am all for officers having guns to protect themselves. With that same token, I think that, because they selected that as a job, they should err more on the side of preserving life, rather than taking life to protect perceived threats to their own.

Thanks for your opinion. Unfortunately, The American Judicial System and LEOs do not share your point of view nor did the Judicial System find the cops use of deadly force excessive.

My post # 32 of 48:

In the Queens shooting, even if the men in the car were unarmed, police had reason to be worried about the car, careening back and forth, according to Michael Palladino, Detectives' Endowment Association. "I do not think the amount of shots were excessive because there was deadly physical force used against our detectives and the detectives used deadly physical force back. They continued to fire until the threat against them ceased, " he has said. As in Queens, a police officer can fear death - even if the suspect does not have a gun. In the death of Gidone Busch, a jury agreed that the police had reason to fear - and fire 13 times at - the mentally ill man wielding a hammer. Read full article

Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you!