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beowulf 1
Quote
"Not everyone can hear this word, only those to whom it has been given"
Go in peace
This is typical Christian bullshit if someone doesn't imagine the same thing you do then it's because you can't "hear this word" or Jesus hasn't shown you the "way".
QuoteQuoteActually, I kinda think the guy in that series of videos is a bit of a tool.
It's not so much that I disagree with his basic concepts, but that he seems to take some sort of joy in taunting the Christians; which is just being an asshole if you ask me.
A couple of years ago Penn Jillette did a really nice piece on NPR's segment called "This I Believe". Normally the segment is devoted to people of faith giving reasons why they believe this or that aspect of whatever religion they happen to believe in. I thought Penn did a very good job of sounding pretty reasonable without sounding too much like a jackass.
You can read it or hear it HERE.
Thanks for the link. He says it much more eloquently than I've been able to.
Why is it easier to believe in a man who doesnt believe in God? Wouldnt you want to be someone who has the hope of eternal life? I mean to believe this life is it, goes against what you truly hope for on the inside doesnt it? Or do you hope that this is the only life? And if so, why? So many of you want to believe in life after death, Jesus proved it by being ressurected from the dead and ascending to heaven. Now that we have the proof, you would rather deny it? It seems all our lives we have been waiting to truly believe in life after death, he shows us the way and we still dont believe.
Now I am asking a question to all atheist and seekers, I hope you respond with truthfulness, where is the joy in your life if not in hope? And Penn Jillette says that he loves his family, I would certainly hope so, but what will he do if he loses them? He says he has truth but doesnt believe even in possibility. There is more truth in a man who believes in possibility than a man who is certain that something only seen by faith is not real. I mean even evil believes in good right? Evil doesnt say, good does not exist, it just goes against it. I need some answers here from the truth that is in you, speak from your heart, think a little bit, and dont be afraid to fear God, "it is the fear of God that is the beginning of wisdom"
"We didn't start the fire"
beowulf 1
QuoteJesus proved it by being ressurected from the dead and ascending to heaven
All you have to support this statement is the bible. That is not proof of anything.
I enjoy many things in life. I don't need to imagine an after life in order to feel good about life.
This is typical Christian bullshit if someone doesn't imagine the same thing you do then it's because you can't "hear this word" or Jesus hasn't shown you the "way".
Why are you so bitter against us? Have you been hurt by a follower of Christ? Have they spoken badly against you? Are we hateful and careless with our words? Your bitterness can easily turn to anger or even rage and believe it or not has nothing to do with Christians and everything to do with what is in you. If you dont believe, why are you so bitter?
I mean what did you expect? You fall in with "an atheist speaks" thread on an open and public forum fully voicing your own opinions and beliefs and angry that someone else doesnt see it your way. So you have become the one on the offensive and mad the very thing you are arguing with me about. In a sense my freind you are arguing with yourself, and using Christians to take your frustration out on.
Why not just take what you hear with a grain of salt, unless maybe you are on the side of truth more than you think? I am truly sorry that I am the one sparking your anger, but i am only expressing my heart, dont you understand, I cant go against what I believe to be right, no one can if they live by the truth.
"We didn't start the fire"
QuoteQuoteJesus proved it by being ressurected from the dead and ascending to heaven
All you have to support this statement is the bible. That is not proof of anything.
I enjoy many things in life. I don't need to imagine an after life in order to feel good about life.
See, now we are talking. I am very very glad that you are happy and that you enjoy many things in this life, I hope you enjoy everything truly. I am not against enjoying life, nor do I think any Christian is. Everyone has their own path, you are following your heart which truly my friend that is all we can do. I followed my heart and it led me to Jesus, but not before it took me all sorts of other places! Some wont ever be led to the Gospel, but all will follow thier own paths.
I am only a guide for those who seek to follow the path of Jesus, I can bring no one, because those who come to Jesus are called, the heart desires what the heart desires. Consider me a really good freind here whenever and whereever you need one, nothing more. I may have some insight that you may benefit from, and trust me I am listening for insight from everyone I meet, even children. Wisdom truly is everywhere.
Something I struggle with is this "warrior of God" mentality in the world today. Anyone who truly believes in God knows that he judges us by our own hearts, I dont know about these "warriors", but with me I dont feel like even I deserve Heaven, so going around telling everyone I am a "warrior for God" just doesnt seem right to me. If I am a warrior, I will practice humility, humbleness, gentleness, truth, forgiveness and being merciful. To me, these are the hardest things to find at times. Not to change the subject entirely, but what do you think?
"We didn't start the fire"
beowulf 1
I think you are delusional. You misuse the words proof and evidence. You seem to think very highly of your feelings and expect others to take them seriously.
Bottom line, there is no evidence of any deity and no evidence of life after death. Lets stick the actual definition of evidence. Feelings don't count (they differ from person to person and the time of day), one book of vague authorship is only heresay. I submit that all religions make fraudulant claims based on heresay.
Bottom line, there is no evidence of any deity and no evidence of life after death. Lets stick the actual definition of evidence. Feelings don't count (they differ from person to person and the time of day), one book of vague authorship is only heresay. I submit that all religions make fraudulant claims based on heresay.
QuoteQuoteJesus proved it by being ressurected from the dead and ascending to heaven
All you have to support this statement is the bible. That is not proof of anything.
Your right, we dont have proof, and you know thats why we have faith. But our faith is not blind my freind it is founded on love, a deeper love than I have ever found. I promise you that I would not have believed if I had not found this love, becasue though faith may be blind, love is real and powerful, even, undeniable. Jesus said more than anything it seems that we had so little faith, so even God knows how little faith we have, but faith that is genuine will grow, just as love that is genuine will last.
But without faith the only proof we have is that 12 men 2000 years ago spent time with Jesus, learned from him, saw him crucified, and through their witness and testimony, saw him resurrected from the dead. Christianity is only alive becasue of thier testimony. But it wasnt just their testimony, they had something else, the spirit. That spirit is still alive today and to this day brings people love in increasing measures. Try to think about what spirit is and you may see how it influences. But to continue, these 12 men were most of them martryd, persecuted, hated, poor, "like refuse" on the street. Basically my friend they were bumbs, only with the conviction and power of what they have witnessed, not just the resurrection, but what they were witnessing throughout the rest of their lives, living not only on food and water, but on the insight and revelations of the spirit that Jesus released when he was crucified. Jesus died so that we might have not just love, but the love of God, which goes much much deeper. This spirit he released is called the Holy Spirit.
Jesus told us that God is spirit and not only that he is spirit but that his spirits glory, the greatest of his being, is love. Everyone who believes in God believes that he created all that exists in space and time, therefore everything was created good and in his spirit. That is why we feel "connceted" with beauty, because the very spirit that is beauty created us. So mountains, Sky, Oceans, ect, are all made in his spirit, all life, but what he did with us was something so magnificent. He created us in his very image so that we might reveal the glory in his spirit, love. Nature only shows some of his beauty, but even nature cannot be born of his glory. Because God is spirit then we commune with him in spirit. Goodness, Faith, Hope, and Love. Contrary to the popular atheist belief, we believe when you are hoping for something you are hoping in spirit, when you love something or someone, it is spirit as well and both as you know feel good to our hearts. Jesus tells us not to love anything more than God or to put your hope in anything else, becasue these things are quickly dissapearing, here one day, gone the next, but someone putting their hope in God and finding love in him finds it for the rest of their lives and not only that, but finds it in increasing measures the more the secrets are revealled.
I cant show you this, although I wish I could, you have to be born of this spirit to see it. No one comes to God without truth, and it shouldnt be too hard to recognize the faults and weaknesses in our own life. You cannot be truthful enough with God he made you and he knows you better than you know yourself. What I find interesting though is why would he even bother to reveal himself to us? Even if you hate him, he loves you, even if you dont believe, he shows you grace, even if you deny him time after time, and spit in his face, he still keeps his heart open, waiting, for you to learn. Jesus came to seek and save what was lost. Our proof is in the spirit he released and the testimony that is bred from our lives. Unfortunately our testimony has not power for those who do not believe, with proof or without proof. Many many people in the Gospel saw the miracles themselves, but still didnt believe who he was. It is the ones who didnt see and yet still believed that were called blessed, because they didnt have to see with their eyes, they saw with their hearts. Again, sorry I wrote so much"We didn't start the fire"
beowulf 1
QuoteYour right, we dont have proof, and you know thats why we have faith. But our faith is not blind my freind it is founded on love, a deeper love than I have ever found.
I believe you faith is missplaced. I think your faith is blind. You are blinded by your emotions. You want to believe so much that you cannot see how ridiculus the bibles claims are. I think this is fueled by fear. Probably fear of death. You don't want to believe that life just ends and there is nothing after death.
QuoteI think you are delusional. You misuse the words proof and evidence. You seem to think very highly of your feelings and expect others to take them seriously.
Bottom line, there is no evidence of any deity and no evidence of life after death. Lets stick the actual definition of evidence. Feelings don't count (they differ from person to person and the time of day), one book of vague authorship is only heresay. I submit that all religions make fraudulant claims based on heresay.
But in one final attempt to misuse the words proof and evidence, I will try reason one last time! Martin Luther King, was he just emotional, or was he inspired by hope and dreams? The proof or evidence of the power he had is in the testimony of those he touched, using feelings to inspire feelings and emotions to keep hope alive. Dont you know that hope doesnt die if it is kept alive by faith? Hope and faith are not feelings, they INSPIRE feelings and so does love.
So, I am the delusional one because I believe in inspiration? And, do you need evidence or proof that you will be alive tomorrow before you make plans? I hope not, becasue what evidence and proof definitely doesnt deny my freind is that tomorrow is never promised. If you can agree with that, then why would you deny the hope in Jesus? And Im sorry that I confided in you about the warrior thing, that may have been a mistake.
"We didn't start the fire"
QuoteQuoteYour right, we dont have proof, and you know thats why we have faith. But our faith is not blind my freind it is founded on love, a deeper love than I have ever found.
I believe you faith is missplaced. I think your faith is blind. You are blinded by your emotions. You want to believe so much that you cannot see how ridiculus the bibles claims are. I think this is fueled by fear. Probably fear of death. You don't want to believe that life just ends and there is nothing after death.
OF COURSE I DONT WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NOTHING AFTER DEATH, BECAUSE I LIVE BY THE TRUTH!!!!! Are you telling me that you want to believe that there is nothing after death? And you are very right, faith is most definitely fueled by fear, so is not turning away from sin becasue you think you will not live as good a life. You cant find hope in God, true hope, without a fear of him. Truth doesnt deny that.
And faith IS blind, but what you have faith in is seen very clearly. The bible describes faith as "being sure of what you hope for, and certain of what you cannot see"
And what is less ridiculous, to believe we are here to go to college, make as much money as possible, have a family, retire, and die? Yet that is the mind set of our entire culture and society. At least among skydivers you find those with a zest for life who coincedentally are much closer to God than you think, even if they think they are not.
So now we have a moment of truth. Time for you to defend your entire credibility. Do you fear?
"We didn't start the fire"
beowulf 1
I have the same fears as anyone else, but I choose to live in reality and not a fantasy world based on claims that have no evidence to back them up.
which is it? earlier you said you are not relying on blind faith.
There is nothing wrong with leading that life. It's just as good as leading a life of skydiving every weekend, if that person enjoys their life who am I to question their choices. Not everyone wants to be a skydiver.
QuoteAnd faith IS blind,
which is it? earlier you said you are not relying on blind faith.
QuoteAnd what is less ridiculous, to believe we are here to go to college, make as much money as possible, have a family, retire, and die?
There is nothing wrong with leading that life. It's just as good as leading a life of skydiving every weekend, if that person enjoys their life who am I to question their choices. Not everyone wants to be a skydiver.
beowulf 1
QuoteBut in one final attempt to misuse the words proof and evidence, I will try reason one last time! Martin Luther King, was he just emotional, or was he inspired by hope and dreams? The proof or evidence of the power he had is in the testimony of those he touched, using feelings to inspire feelings and emotions to keep hope alive. Dont you know that hope doesnt die if it is kept alive by faith? Hope and faith are not feelings, they INSPIRE feelings and so does love.
MLK wrote and delivered an emotional speech that inspired many people. So what is your point??
Hope is an emotion, look it up. Faith is believing in something with out any evidence, look it up. Try dictionary.com
Many people find the bible to be emotionally inspiring. That doesn't make it any more valid.
beowulf 1
QuoteAre you telling me that you want to believe that there is nothing after death?
No I am not telling you that. I am saying there is no evidence of any life after death. It's not about what i want to believe. It's about the evidence available.
QuoteI have the same fears as anyone else, but I choose to live in reality and not a fantasy world based on claims that have no evidence to back them up.
QuoteAnd faith IS blind,
which is it? earlier you said you are not relying on blind faith.QuoteAnd what is less ridiculous, to believe we are here to go to college, make as much money as possible, have a family, retire, and die?
There is nothing wrong with leading that life. It's just as good as leading a life of skydiving every weekend, if that person enjoys their life who am I to question their choices. Not everyone wants to be a skydiver.
Ok. I said that our faith is not blind, that it is founded on love, faith is blind, but what you have faith in is what is seen. I am also guessing the dictionary.com has the definition for love just wrapped up in one little perfect definition as well right? Even though there are thousands of movies, songs, peices of art to express that very thing. How is dictionary.com going to define faith, hope, or love? What it defines is mans definition of it, not mans experience or testimony of it. The bible defines faith through the heart of those who lived it, and are you telling me that you believe the bible is worth comparing to the dictionary? How many people you know give their lives, time, money, effort in support of the dictionary? Im sorry, I cant make that connection. Then you said earlier that the bible is vague on authorship, even though it has been written in for thousands of years, the dictionary is your guide?? wow. I wonder if the definition for skydiving can define how you feel about it?
Yeah the less ridiculous comment wasnt finished
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
But what I was trying to say is that man wasnt created to just pay bills and work. theres more to life than that. You can witness the power of the simpler life in more humble envioronments. All I was saying about skydiving was that it generally attracts people who wanted something more out of life, challenge, or just more beauty, I dont know. If you have never been to third world countrys or tribal envioronments then you wouldnt really have the perception that is bred by someone who has, so either you believe there is more to life than what our society shows, or you dont, there is not a right or a wrong, that answer is just found from within. Your comment on fear sort of suprises me. We both have admitted that we fear, yet only my fear aparently is based on a fantasy, yours is reality? Your gonna need to explain that one to me.
"We didn't start the fire"
QuoteQuoteAre you telling me that you want to believe that there is nothing after death?
No I am not telling you that. I am saying there is no evidence of any life after death. It's not about what i want to believe. It's about the evidence available.
but what if I told you that what you want to believe is what you can believe? Would you still not believe you can becasue you dont have the evidence. And have you even read a gospel?
"We didn't start the fire"
beowulf 1
Quotebut what if I told you that what you want to believe is what you can believe? Would you still not believe you can becasue you dont have the evidence. And have you even read a gospel?
I have read the Bible.
You can believe anything you want. That doesn't make it true.
Everyone feels fear at times. It's how you deal with it that is important. I don't resort to fantasys based on the Bible.
QuoteQuoteBut in one final attempt to misuse the words proof and evidence, I will try reason one last time! Martin Luther King, was he just emotional, or was he inspired by hope and dreams? The proof or evidence of the power he had is in the testimony of those he touched, using feelings to inspire feelings and emotions to keep hope alive. Dont you know that hope doesnt die if it is kept alive by faith? Hope and faith are not feelings, they INSPIRE feelings and so does love.
MLK wrote and delivered an emotional speech that inspired many people. So what is your point??
Hope is an emotion, look it up. Faith is believing in something with out any evidence, look it up. Try dictionary.com
Many people find the bible to be emotionally inspiring. That doesn't make it any more valid.
MY POINT IS THAT HE INSPIRED! INSPIRATION BREEDS FEELING AND FEELING BREEDS THOUGHT AND THOUGHT, ACTION. THERE IS SOMETHING BEFORE THE EMOTION, BEFORE THE FEELING. THIS IS WHAT THOSE INSPIRED BY THE SPIRIT OF JESUS HAVE. The spirit of Grace (Gods love) is what Jesus was inspired by, that is why he died and gave his life, so that we would know it.
You said that MLK inspired people through his speeches, but most of that power came through his convictioin (how much he believed), that conviction was given to the world in his death and therefore his message lives and continues to inspire with power. Jesus is the no different, except the spirit he released was the willingness for everyone to love one another and turn from their evil ways.
If hope is just an emotion, then what is inspiration? Isnt an emotion just a response to something? What is it responding to? What does anything or anyone respond to? Now, keep in mind, reason just told you that MLK inspired people, so I am close to believing that your really not listening to reason, which means your definitly not gonna listen to me. Youve already made up your mind what I am to you and what my intent is. Unfortunately, I cant do anything about that.
"We didn't start the fire"
QuoteQuotebut what if I told you that what you want to believe is what you can believe? Would you still not believe you can becasue you dont have the evidence. And have you even read a gospel?
I have read the Bible.
You can believe anything you want. That doesn't make it true.
Everyone feels fear at times. It's how you deal with it that is important. I don't resort to fantasys based on the Bible.
Well your further along than I am then cause I havent read the entire bible even yet. But I asked if you had read a Gospel, which is the small 4 books that were the accounts of Jesus. He only lived around 30 years or so and he only had 3 years of ministry. A Gospel is either Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. The entire bible is 66 books, and it is an absolute miracle to me that everything fits together the way it does with all the years in between each book. I mean Isaiah prophesied some 800 years before Christ that he was going to come. And you can go all the way back to genesis and exudus to find evidence of the prophecy of Jesus. Thats not somewhat fascinating? There are theologists all over the world who dont even believe in Jesus, but have a super fascination of the bible and the way it connects. If you want to know the truth about yourself confront yourself in full truth, what you find is only a hair of what God knows about you. He even knows if you will seek him some day, truth knows all your secrets.
Let me say, I hope these conversations arent over, I just want you to know that i appreciate your confrontations more than you know. I mean that. Like I said, at least your not a self-righteous hypocrite. It is a rare thing to be able to share your faith with someone and I appreciate everything you write.
"We didn't start the fire"
beowulf 1
QuoteMY POINT IS THAT HE INSPIRED! INSPIRATION BREEDS FEELING AND FEELING BREEDS THOUGHT AND THOUGHT, ACTION. THERE IS SOMETHING BEFORE THE EMOTION, BEFORE THE FEELING. THIS IS WHAT THOSE INSPIRED BY THE SPIRIT OF JESUS HAVE. The spirit of Grace (Gods love) is what Jesus was inspired by, that is why he died and gave his life, so that we would know it.
Just because you and many people are inspired by the biblical accounts of Jesus doesn't make it true or that Jesus was ever resurected from the dead or that anything in the Bible really happened. I look things logically. Logically there is no evidence that God exists or that Jesus was resurected from the dead. Just because you found inspiration in the Bible doesn't make it true or factual.
Everyone feels fear at times. It's how you deal with it that is important. I don't resort to fantasys based on the Bible.
Your right, its how you deal with it. But have you never feared the possibility of hell? Fear is shown to us so that we might know what fear is. It is meant to humble us, but also to bring us hope which is greater than control. Hope gives the outcome of your life to something else, or we choose to bare the burden of that outcome within ourselves. Fear does not get erased just because we feel we have control, it has a great purpose in our lives and ultimately it is overcome with power a power that is greater.
Fear is also an inspiration beyond just being afraid. It will paralyze people, haunt them, control them and it cannot be controled by our minds, it goes much deeper than that. It is power given to wisdom to bring us hope, so that the greater powers in wisdom can overcome it and find true peace.
"We didn't start the fire"
Just because you found inspiration in the Bible doesn't make it true or factual.
Forgive me for saying, but what makes your theory true or factual? Quantam Physics and Evolutionists have been trying to prove the miracle of life for centuries, none of thier findings is based on fact. Only tiny factual evidence leading up to a theory that is far from proven. People either look at life as a miracle, or they dont, either way the mystery of both views is just as intriguing, and as i said earlier, both views serve a purpose.
I have seen many dead bodies as I am sure you have as well. The body is there, the heart, the blood, but something is missing, something powerful, something sacred, something miraculous, something that even the greatest minds in science cant find. I am sorry, but I just cant believe that something so vast and brilliant in our world, on our earth such as life, is just born from pieces of carbon fiber in the universe and has absolutley no purpose whatsoever. I personally cannot deny that there is actual wisdom operating under an invisible blanket of space, with purpose, design and influence. We humans must really think alot of ourselves, and where has that pride ever gotten us?
"We didn't start the fire"
Thanks for the link. He says it much more eloquently than I've been able to.
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