More Church vs State

[DSE 3]

LDS Church makes statement against alcohol in grocery stores
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) has long supported the state of Utah alcohol control philosophy that alcohol be made reasonably available to responsible adults.
The church agrees with the position of the Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission and the attorney general that the sale of distilled spirits - including so-called alcopops - should be restricted to state liquor stores.
To allow the sale of distilled spirits in grocery and convenience stores promotes underage drinking and undermines the state system of alcohol control. Utah can justifiably take pride in its low rates of per capita consumption of alcohol and its low incidence of drunk driving. The resulting lower social costs from alcohol abuse are a benefit to all Utahns."
- LDS Church spokesman Mark Tuttle


Just a small amount of background; 2 of the 3 people on the ABC are LDS. It's been a long-running joke in Utah about having non-drinkers on the Alcohol and Beverage Commission.
I wonder when cough syrup will end up in the State Liquor store?

[pirana 0]

Rats, I saw the thread title and thought I might get a cartoon along the lines of Spy v. Spy.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Unstable 8]

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Just a small amount of background; 2 of the 3 people on the ABC are LDS.

So, what do you recommend? Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming, while increasingly diverse, are still very predominantly LDS areas. Not electing them to those position because they are LDS would be discrimination.

=========Shaun ==========

[Shotgun 1]

As a non-religious person, I agree that alcoholic beverages should not be sold in grocery stores. I think that restricting it to liquor stores would help at least a little bit with society's alcohol abuse problems, and it would only be a mild inconvenience to those who wish to purchase it.

[skydyvr 0]

At least the church is basing their argument in positive statistics. When we hear "God doesn't want us to drink" as an argument to change law, a big red flag goes up.

. . =(_8^(1)

[DSE 3]

Not electing them to those position because they are LDS would be discrimination.


They're not elected. They're appointed.
Interesting that Utah has a low drunk driving/alcohol related record while these beverages have been allowed on the shelves since day one, and of course, our famous 3.2 beer is always available on the shelves.

Of course, that goes without mentioning that of the Utah residents (predominantly Mormon), 54% of those surveyed were OPPOSED to restricting sales.
The beverages are the same alcohol content as our beer, so it's a fairly stupid action, IMO.

[Unstable 8]

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As a non-religious person, I agree that alcoholic beverages should not be sold in grocery stores. I think that restricting it to liquor stores would help at least a little bit with society's alcohol abuse problems, and it would only be a mild inconvenience to those who wish to purchase it.

I agree. I've lived in Utah for years, and I've been with many drinking friends and to many bars. "Mild inconvenience" is the best description to the rest of us for a solution that seems to be working...

=========Shaun ==========

[Casurf1978 0]

Aren't you two jumping to a conclusion a bit soon. Did a quick search and came up with these studies on alcohol abuse in California and Utah. Keep in mind that Cali has 36M people while Utah only has 2.2M.


http://www.usnodrugs.com/statistics.htm?state=Utah&cat=alcohol


http://usnodrugs.com/statistics.htm?state=California&cat=alcohol

[Shotgun 1]

My conclusion is based on my own experience with alcoholism and knowing that alcohol in the grocery store presents an unnecessary problem for those who are trying to give it up.

As for those statistics, I'm not sure how they would know how many people have a drinking problem in each state.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

There are large parts of Canada where liquor is only sold through government stores, and other parts where the rules have been 'relaxed' to allow it to be sold in dedicated stores with restricted hours. There is no evidence that this has increased either the alcoholism rate or the DWI rate. We do not have less alcohol based problems in BC (dedicated stores, restricted hours) than our neighbours in Washington state (liquor in the Safeway) have.

[livendive 8]

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As a non-religious person, I agree that alcoholic beverages should not be sold in grocery stores. I think that restricting it to liquor stores would help at least a little bit with society's alcohol abuse problems, and it would only be a mild inconvenience to those who wish to purchase it.

Personally, I like the fact that I can stop at the grocery store and get everything I want for dinner, including meat, veggies, and wine.

(In WA, beer and wine are sold in grocery and convenience stores, but hard alcohol is only sold in state-run liquor stores. No alcohol may be sold anywhere between 2 AM and 6 AM, and liquor stores are closed on Sundays).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Shotgun 1]

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We do not have less alcohol based problems in BC (dedicated stores, restricted hours) than our neighbours in Washington state (liquor in the Safeway) have.

I'm not sure how you would know that, other than DWI rates, or perhaps other alcohol-related arrest rates too.

But my opinion is not based on statistics (I don't believe it's possible to have accurate statistics regarding alcoholism). It's just based on my own experience. And obviously anyone who really wants alcohol will just go to the liquor store to get it, but I do think that keeping it out of the grocery stores would make a small difference in the problem. (Just my opinion, of course. I suspect that most people will not agree with me.)

[Shotgun 1]

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Personally, I like the fact that I can stop at the grocery store and get everything I want for dinner, including meat, veggies, and wine.

I understand that most people just think of the convenience of having it in grocery stores. But for an alcoholic who is trying to quit drinking, a trip to the grocery store is an easy way to relapse when there is alcohol all over the store, and most people cannot simply avoid grocery stores.

Now I realize the same could be said for people who are trying to lose weight or give up caffeine or whatever; they too have temptations all over the grocery store. But when they give into their temptations, they are not putting other people in danger, as is often the case with an alcoholic.

Anyhow, I don't expect it to change here in California. Liquor is available in pretty much every grocery store and is usually displayed prominently throughout the store. Oh well... It does make it easier for me to pick up a bottle of booze when I feel like having some, and that's all that really matters.

[jakee 1,257]

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My conclusion is based on my own experience with alcoholism and knowing that alcohol in the grocery store presents an unnecessary problem for those who are trying to give it up.

Eh? So because you've got no willpower I'm not allowed to pick up a six pack of bud lite with my TV dinner? Shocking

(At least 50% of the above is a joke)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Shotgun 1]

For the part that's not a joke, I've probably already answered that in my other posts in this thread.

[DSE 3]

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My conclusion is based on my own experience with alcoholism and knowing that alcohol in the grocery store presents an unnecessary problem for those who are trying to give it up.

As for those statistics, I'm not sure how they would know how many people have a drinking problem in each state.

Well...there's an argument. Ban Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition for those that have a problem with masturbation, or eliminate chocolate for those that are struggling with weight issues.
My best friend has a sex-addiction, so perhaps all women should be kept from public places, or at the least, be forced to cover all of their bodies except for their eyes and hands.

[Royd 0]

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My conclusion is based on my own experience with alcoholism and knowing that alcohol in the grocery store presents an unnecessary problem for those who are trying to give it up.

What are we going to do about all of those people struggling with obesity?

[jakee 1,257]

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My best friend has a sex-addiction, so perhaps all women should be kept from public places, or at the least, be forced to cover all of their bodies except for their eyes and hands.

You do not go far enough sir! Ah the power of a soft caress while gazing deep into a lovers eyes.... er, you may have to excuse me for a moment!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Shotgun 1]

As I said in one of my other posts:

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Now I realize the same could be said for people who are trying to lose weight or give up caffeine or whatever; they too have temptations all over the grocery store. But when they give into their temptations, they are not putting other people in danger, as is often the case with an alcoholic.

Anyhow, I don't expect you guys to agree with me. And I really don't think it would make a huge difference anyway.

[DSE 3]

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As I said in one of my other posts:

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Now I realize the same could be said for people who are trying to lose weight or give up caffeine or whatever; they too have temptations all over the grocery store. But when they give into their temptations, they are not putting other people in danger, as is often the case with an alcoholic.

Anyhow, I don't expect you guys to agree with me. And I really don't think it would make a huge difference anyway.

I don't think you can protect people from themselves or others, if this is the criteria on which a decision to sell or not sell is made.
Ammunition, drug products, knives, liquor, hammers are all available over the counter.
Should we generate a 5-day waiting period to purchase hammers? It's bad enough that drugs like Drixoral (Once a scrip-only drug and then became OTC) requires you to fill out a federal form just to buy a box now. We're already legislated to death over what are common purchases, due to the weaknesses of others. Rather than raising up a balanced society, is it truly better to dumb the quality of life down to the lowest common denominator?

[Shotgun 1]

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I don't think you can protect people from themselves or others, if this is the criteria on which a decision to sell or not sell is made.

I don't know about that... It seems that the changes that have been made in the way tobacco is sold (including advertising) have helped to decrease the percentage of smokers in our society. (And thereby reducing the harm that smokers cause to other people.) It's hard to say for sure though, since the anti-smoking laws that have emerged have probably played a larger role in that decrease.

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We're already legislated to death over what are common purchases, due to the weaknesses of others.

Do you think that we should make heroin and cocaine legal and available in grocery stores? (Yeah, I know that those are not common purchases like alcohol is, but that's probably mostly because alcohol is legal and they're not.)

I know that's an extreme example, but I'm just curious where you think the line should be drawn regarding legislation that tries to reduce the problems caused by addiction.

[rhys 0]

Those mormons are a different breed thogh arent they.

Have you ever watched 'this divided state'?

Although MM acted like an idiot in his speach, the mormons proved themselved to be the most closed minded idiots I have ever witnessed.

Talk about sheltered!

I'll be keen to go to Utah one day to witness that for myself. + they have epic snow there.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[DSE 3]

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Those mormons are a different breed thogh arent they.

Have you ever watched 'this divided state'?

Although MM acted like an idiot in his speach, the mormons proved themselved to be the most closed minded idiots I have ever witnessed.

Talk about sheltered!

I'll be keen to go to Utah one day to witness that for myself. + they have epic snow there.

Not only have I see "This Divided State," but I live in it.
I met Steven on "World's Fastest Indian," super-smart kid. "This Divided State" got a lot of attention for him. Can't wait to see his expose' on Cheney and BYU.

[Unstable 8]

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Well...there's an argument. Ban Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition for those that have a problem with masturbation, or eliminate chocolate for those that are struggling with weight issues.
My best friend has a sex-addiction, so perhaps all women should be kept from public places, or at the least, be forced to cover all of their bodies except for their eyes and hands

It makes sense to me. Kansas is much the same way, and we don't have the Mormons running our state. The government, concerned about thinks like teenaged drinking, drunk driving, and alcoholism, in their best interest they are trying to somewhat control it's distribution to the public. I think Shotgun has a lot of good points, and I'm not sure why you are even bringing the Mormons into this. Once again, in Kansas, not long ago we had war on capital hill when people wanted to start selling booze on Sunday. You still can't in Riley county, that is just what the local governments, trying to act in the best interests of it's people, are trying to do.

=========Shaun ==========

[DSE 3]

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and I'm not sure why you are even bringing the Mormons into this. Once again, in Kansas, not long ago we had war on capital hill when people wanted to start selling booze on Sunday. You still can't in Riley county, that is just what the local governments, trying to act in the best interests of it's people, are trying to do.

Read the article, I didn't bring Mormons into it, the Mormon-owned newspaper specifically mentions Mormon legislature, Mormons on the ABC, Mormon-dominated state, Mormons that don't agree with restricting sales.