Lucky... 0 #51 December 22, 2007 Quote Quote Let's see. Someone gets EARNS $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes $500,000 in investment income and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes a capital gain of $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone gets $500,000 from a bank based on a promise they won't keep, doesn't pay it back, but doesn't have to pay tax on it. Something wrong with your logic there. I thought you were using convoluted logic but I know believe I am wrong. You are a socialist. And that is OK if that is what you believ but I wonder ..... Are you a US citizen???? Wait a minute, Mr. Personal Responsibility thinks it's ok to shirk a debt and even get a nod from the IRS? Pick a side and build a house. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #52 December 22, 2007 Quote>Had BC signed it (IMO) it would not have been about corp greed but a >great dead for the little guy. Quote By the way, where did I say what you have in this post????"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #53 December 22, 2007 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #54 December 22, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Let's see. Someone gets EARNS $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes $500,000 in investment income and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes a capital gain of $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone gets $500,000 from a bank based on a promise they won't keep, doesn't pay it back, but doesn't have to pay tax on it. Something wrong with your logic there. I thought you were using convoluted logic but I know believe I am wrong. You are a socialist. And that is OK if that is what you believ but I wonder ..... Are you a US citizen???? Wait a minute, Mr. Personal Responsibility thinks it's ok to shirk a debt and even get a nod from the IRS? Pick a side and build a house. Take it where you will. Wow, what another stretch"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #55 December 22, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Let's see. Someone gets EARNS $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes $500,000 in investment income and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes a capital gain of $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone gets $500,000 from a bank based on a promise they won't keep, doesn't pay it back, but doesn't have to pay tax on it. Something wrong with your logic there. I thought you were using convoluted logic but I know believe I am wrong. You are a socialist. And that is OK if that is what you believ but I wonder ..... Are you a US citizen???? Wait a minute, Mr. Personal Responsibility thinks it's ok to shirk a debt and even get a nod from the IRS? Pick a side and build a house. Take it where you will. Wow, what another stretch A stretch? Repug personal responsibility includes paying your billd, taxes, etc.....right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #56 December 22, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Let's see. Someone gets EARNS $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes $500,000 in investment income and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes a capital gain of $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone gets $500,000 from a bank based on a promise they won't keep, doesn't pay it back, but doesn't have to pay tax on it. Something wrong with your logic there. I thought you were using convoluted logic but I know believe I am wrong. You are a socialist. And that is OK if that is what you believ but I wonder ..... Are you a US citizen???? Wait a minute, Mr. Personal Responsibility thinks it's ok to shirk a debt and even get a nod from the IRS? Pick a side and build a house. Take it where you will. Wow, what another stretch A stretch? Repug personal responsibility includes paying your billd, taxes, etc.....right? Now, should I attack you for your spelling? "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Misternatural 0 #57 December 22, 2007 >>"What is truly shocking is that there are perhaps MILLIONS of people who will be helped by this (parents and children) and there are STILL people out there who are alleging corporate kickbacks and greed and abuse instead of looking at the large people it will help who TRULY need the help." Well I am democratic moderate of sorts but isn't it true that most bills, in order to pass must have provisions which appease both parties? The way I look at it laws should take a Jeremy Bentham style utilitarian approach,ie. the greatest good for the greatest number. Some of my liberal cohorts don't see this- but the same is true- as you point out for the righties when they don't get everything their way. But thats democracy- you aint gonna get everything you want. My point about the speed at which bills are passed- now that the U.S. govt. and the media seem not to be so bogged down with the war in Iraq , is that good bills- and news stories seem to be flowing out of Washington, It's probably just a perception thing. The darkness appears to be lifting... finally.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #58 December 23, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Let's see. Someone gets EARNS $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes $500,000 in investment income and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes a capital gain of $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone gets $500,000 from a bank based on a promise they won't keep, doesn't pay it back, but doesn't have to pay tax on it. Something wrong with your logic there. I thought you were using convoluted logic but I know believe I am wrong. You are a socialist. And that is OK if that is what you believ but I wonder ..... Are you a US citizen???? Wait a minute, Mr. Personal Responsibility thinks it's ok to shirk a debt and even get a nod from the IRS? Pick a side and build a house. Take it where you will. Wow, what another stretch A stretch? Repug personal responsibility includes paying your billd, taxes, etc.....right? Now, should I attack you for your spelling? You've made it clear that you have no reply for most issues, bt here goes again: A stretch? Repug personal responsibility includes paying your bills, taxes, etc.....right? That's why being a Repug is so difficult; you get stuck with your rigid nature. I feel your pain, but address the assertion, aren't Repugs about personal responsibility? No, as we see they are about shirking these things at the cost of the country, just look at the debt and you will see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #59 December 23, 2007 Quote>>"What is truly shocking is that there are perhaps MILLIONS of people who will be helped by this (parents and children) and there are STILL people out there who are alleging corporate kickbacks and greed and abuse instead of looking at the large people it will help who TRULY need the help." Well I am democratic moderate of sorts but isn't it true that most bills, in order to pass must have provisions which appease both parties? The way I look at it laws should take a Jeremy Bentham style utilitarian approach,ie. the greatest good for the greatest number. Some of my liberal cohorts don't see this- but the same is true- as you point out for the righties when they don't get everything their way. But thats democracy- you aint gonna get everything you want. My point about the speed at which bills are passed- now that the U.S. govt. and the media seem not to be so bogged down with the war in Iraq , is that good bills- and news stories seem to be flowing out of Washington, It's probably just a perception thing. The darkness appears to be lifting... finally. Utilitarianism? Yea, nice concept, it breeds things like capital punishment. Utilitarianism defies the concept of the Constitution, which allegedly promotes individual liberty. The issue Dems have with the signed bill is that we are extremely sceptical of any bill that is signed by this garbage that is supposedly there to help the little guy, as he really hasn't signed any of those, has he? Can you list any bills directed at helping the little guy and not helping the rich in enormous ways? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #60 December 23, 2007 QuoteCan you list any bills directed at helping the little guy and not helping the rich in enormous ways?He reduced my taxes. Now, if we could get the Fair Tax enacted, all of the little guys who suck the system dry, would have to pay their fair share. Illegal aliens and foriegn tourists could balance the books. Do you have a problem with that, or are just a hater of the man who makes $1.00 more than you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,647 #61 December 23, 2007 QuoteQuoteCan you list any bills directed at helping the little guy and not helping the rich in enormous ways?He reduced my taxes. Now, if we could get the Fair Tax enacted, all of the little guys who suck the system dry, would have to pay their fair share. Illegal aliens and foriegn tourists could balance the books. Do you have a problem with that, or are just a hater of the man who makes $1.00 more than you? He reduced your taxes a tiny amount while at the same time running up enormous debts on your behalf. You don't even realize you have been hoodwinked.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #62 December 24, 2007 >>>>>>He reduced my taxes. Right, Clinton raised them, the deficit was balanced and the debt started to get paid down a shade. 1 US Dollar = 1.55 Canadian dollar as Clnto left office, now we're lucky of they're equal, that is the effect of lowering your taxes; are good with that? >>>>>>>>>>Now, if we could get the Fair Tax enacted, all of the little guys who suck the system dry, would have to pay their fair share. Oh, the common person is the problem? Warren Buffet would contradict that, and it doesn't get much bigger than that. We are probably the only industrialized nation that has no socialized meds, as well as other social progs and you still want to chant that BS about the little guy not carrying his load? What a joke. >>>>>>>>>>>>>.Illegal aliens and foriegn tourists could balance the books. Do you have a problem with that, or are just a hater of the man who makes $1.00 more than you? I'm a hater of slime that has no problem with the class disparity that we do and still chants shit abou the little guy getting over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #63 December 24, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteCan you list any bills directed at helping the little guy and not helping the rich in enormous ways?He reduced my taxes. Now, if we could get the Fair Tax enacted, all of the little guys who suck the system dry, would have to pay their fair share. Illegal aliens and foriegn tourists could balance the books. Do you have a problem with that, or are just a hater of the man who makes $1.00 more than you? He reduced your taxes a tiny amount while at the same time running up enormous debts on your behalf. You don't even realize you have been hoodwinked. They're so lock-stepped that they can't even see around the guy in front of them..... kinda like sheep; nose to asshole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #64 December 24, 2007 Quote We are probably the only industrialized nation that has no socialized meds Oh I thought we were talking about the US... Hello, the US has had socialized meds for decades, and it's too expensive to maintain due to cost and demographic changes taking place and forecast to continue. What we don't have is universal health care coverage. Big difference.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #65 December 24, 2007 >>>>>>>>>>>Oh I thought we were talking about the US... Oh, we are. Simply comparing the US to the ret of the world is drawing a standard and comparing the US to it. Hint: The standard is the use of industrialized nations - often used. We can do this when talk about capital punishment, juvenile justice, taxes, military, etc. Those who wish to contain their arguments to a narrow microcosm usually do so for the purpose of concealing the truth. >>>>>>>>>>>>Hello, the US has had socialized meds for decades, Right, so Medicade and Medicare are socialized meds to you - BRILLIANT. Let me see, per your citations, who qualifies? ...covering people who are either age 65 and over, or who meet other special criteria....individuals are eligible for Medicare if they (or their spouse) worked for at least 10 years in Medicare-covered employment and are at least 65 years old and are a citizen or permanent resident of the United States of America. That's real socialiazed medicine, huh? Yea, we are tooooo socialized, we need to curtail those benefits and let people die, after all, personal repsonsibility, right? >>>>>>>>>>>and it's too expensive to maintain due to cost and demographic changes taking place and forecast to continue. Right, but the fact that we spend 45% of the world's total military expenditure means nothing, right? After all, they are all jealous and out to get us, right? Actually, if we include war funding we spent ~60% of the world's military budget, but socilaized meds are too expensive huh? BRILLIANT. Letme take this argumenbt out of your microcosm and put it ino context..... we are ~4 1/2% of the world's population, yet we are spending 45% of the world's military budget. We also have most millionaires here by a longshot and deprive 1 in 6 of basic healthcare. - just skip over these, hard to address for you - >>>>>>>>>>>>>What we don't have is universal health care coverage. Big difference. BIG SEMANTICS. In order for the Democratic canidates to get the hillbilly garbage to go along with socialized medicine, they call it universal healthcare. Once these rednecks tried soc meds, they would largely be hooked and the rightwing faction knows this so they use whatever language or tactics they can to quash it. SOCIALIZED MEDICINE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialized_medicine Socialized medicine or state medicine is a term used primarily in the United States to describe a public health care system that is controlled and financed by the government.[1] It can refer to any system of medical care that is largely both publicly financed and government administered or regulated. [2] [3] The term is narrowly used by some to describe a system where the government funds and manages health care by directly employing health care providers directly [4]. It has also been applied to systems where the government sets rules for private practices to provide treatment for re-imbursement by the state.[5] This extended portion is effectively the same as single payer health insurance, where the government finances health care but is uninvolved in delivery.[6] Examples of socialized medicine include such systems as the United States' Veterans Health Administration, the British National Health Service hospital trusts,[7][8] and the Cuban national health care system. [9][10] Most industrialized countries, and many developing countries, operate some form of socialized medicine, though the term is often used pejoratively in political discourse. [11] [12] See there, it's a term used as a derogatory name for political purpose. UNIVERSAL CARE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care Universal health care refers to government programs intended to ensure that all citizens, and sometimes permanent residents, of a governmental region have access to most types of health care. Patients may pay for some portion of their care directly, but most care is subsidized by taxpayers and/or by compulsory health insurance. So you can use whatever terminology you want, but the point is that we don't ensure our people are healthy as most/all indust nations do, instead we spend 550+B per year on basic military operations. So let's examine the issue/semantics poer you. You say: - Socialized medicine amounts to Medicare, Medicaide. - Universal care is were the gov ensures all have medicare coverage. Deduction: You then say that we currently have soc meds and it goes too far, too expensive. SO you want us to move away from a plan that so inferior in its coverage to that of the rest of the world that we are pittied by the rest of the indust world? Hmmmm, no mention of curtailing the military spending, must have been an ovesight, or you like that spending. Look, you can attach whatever political label you wish, but socialized meds is a cutting term to define mandatory spending to ensure everyone has healthcare coverage. Do you want to get into an arument about semantic labels or address spending vs healthcare needs of a nation? The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system.[1] The government directly covers a little over one-quarter of the population[8] through health care programs for the elderly, disabled, military service families and veterans, children, and the poor.[9] Federal law ensures public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay.[ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #66 December 24, 2007 QuoteSo you can use whatever terminology you want, but the point is that we don't ensure our people are healthy as most/all indust nations do, instead we spend 550+B per year on basic military operations. So if the govt were to tell us to quit smoking, ease up on the alcohol, and get off of your lazy ass and get some exercise, you'd be all over that, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #67 December 25, 2007 Quote We also...deprive 1 in 6 of basic health care. We don't deprive anyone of health care. You're depriving me of a Ferrari!My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Broke 0 #68 December 25, 2007 OR we can just get rid of the IRS and then income tax and not have to waste time with making blls like thisDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,427 #69 December 25, 2007 > OR we can just get rid of the IRS . . . That makes as much sense as solving your credit card debt problems by burning all your credit card bills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #70 December 26, 2007 QuoteQuote Of course, if someone has used up $50k in credit card debt, and has that cancelled, then yes, I believe that the person SHOULD pay taxes on that. There really has been something tangible received for it. What if a person had $50K in credit card debt, did a cash-out refinance into an ARM, and then had the $50K forgiven when the ARM interest rate increased? What if a person spent $50K in cash on cars and consumer goods to avoid credit card debt, got a 100% ARM for the same house they would have bought living a less extravagant lifestyle, and had that $50K forgiven after they learned they shouldn't have done that? What if an otherwise frugal person spent $50K on housing more than they should have, couldn't make the payments after the teaser period, and had the $50K forgiven? Although the timing and mechanics of the financial mistakes vary in all four examples, it's the same over-spending problem which deserves the same treatment. Forgiven debt should be taxable income or not. I'd suggest that the lenders get the collateral (house) or proceeds from sale of goods purchased on credit ($0 in the case of non-durables like vacations), take a capital loss just as if they'd invested in the stock market instead of an individual, and there isn't any retroactive income. It doesn't hurt people who were just down on their luck, is fair, and doesn't cost much. I think I'm with Drew on this one. If someone used a mortgage to pay off credit card debts, and then didn't pay back the mortgage, the difference between what they got and what they gave back is income. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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rushmc 18 #54 December 22, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Let's see. Someone gets EARNS $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes $500,000 in investment income and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes a capital gain of $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone gets $500,000 from a bank based on a promise they won't keep, doesn't pay it back, but doesn't have to pay tax on it. Something wrong with your logic there. I thought you were using convoluted logic but I know believe I am wrong. You are a socialist. And that is OK if that is what you believ but I wonder ..... Are you a US citizen???? Wait a minute, Mr. Personal Responsibility thinks it's ok to shirk a debt and even get a nod from the IRS? Pick a side and build a house. Take it where you will. Wow, what another stretch"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #55 December 22, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Let's see. Someone gets EARNS $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes $500,000 in investment income and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes a capital gain of $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone gets $500,000 from a bank based on a promise they won't keep, doesn't pay it back, but doesn't have to pay tax on it. Something wrong with your logic there. I thought you were using convoluted logic but I know believe I am wrong. You are a socialist. And that is OK if that is what you believ but I wonder ..... Are you a US citizen???? Wait a minute, Mr. Personal Responsibility thinks it's ok to shirk a debt and even get a nod from the IRS? Pick a side and build a house. Take it where you will. Wow, what another stretch A stretch? Repug personal responsibility includes paying your billd, taxes, etc.....right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #56 December 22, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Let's see. Someone gets EARNS $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes $500,000 in investment income and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes a capital gain of $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone gets $500,000 from a bank based on a promise they won't keep, doesn't pay it back, but doesn't have to pay tax on it. Something wrong with your logic there. I thought you were using convoluted logic but I know believe I am wrong. You are a socialist. And that is OK if that is what you believ but I wonder ..... Are you a US citizen???? Wait a minute, Mr. Personal Responsibility thinks it's ok to shirk a debt and even get a nod from the IRS? Pick a side and build a house. Take it where you will. Wow, what another stretch A stretch? Repug personal responsibility includes paying your billd, taxes, etc.....right? Now, should I attack you for your spelling? "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #57 December 22, 2007 >>"What is truly shocking is that there are perhaps MILLIONS of people who will be helped by this (parents and children) and there are STILL people out there who are alleging corporate kickbacks and greed and abuse instead of looking at the large people it will help who TRULY need the help." Well I am democratic moderate of sorts but isn't it true that most bills, in order to pass must have provisions which appease both parties? The way I look at it laws should take a Jeremy Bentham style utilitarian approach,ie. the greatest good for the greatest number. Some of my liberal cohorts don't see this- but the same is true- as you point out for the righties when they don't get everything their way. But thats democracy- you aint gonna get everything you want. My point about the speed at which bills are passed- now that the U.S. govt. and the media seem not to be so bogged down with the war in Iraq , is that good bills- and news stories seem to be flowing out of Washington, It's probably just a perception thing. The darkness appears to be lifting... finally.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #58 December 23, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Let's see. Someone gets EARNS $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes $500,000 in investment income and has to pay tax on it. Someone makes a capital gain of $500,000 and has to pay tax on it. Someone gets $500,000 from a bank based on a promise they won't keep, doesn't pay it back, but doesn't have to pay tax on it. Something wrong with your logic there. I thought you were using convoluted logic but I know believe I am wrong. You are a socialist. And that is OK if that is what you believ but I wonder ..... Are you a US citizen???? Wait a minute, Mr. Personal Responsibility thinks it's ok to shirk a debt and even get a nod from the IRS? Pick a side and build a house. Take it where you will. Wow, what another stretch A stretch? Repug personal responsibility includes paying your billd, taxes, etc.....right? Now, should I attack you for your spelling? You've made it clear that you have no reply for most issues, bt here goes again: A stretch? Repug personal responsibility includes paying your bills, taxes, etc.....right? That's why being a Repug is so difficult; you get stuck with your rigid nature. I feel your pain, but address the assertion, aren't Repugs about personal responsibility? No, as we see they are about shirking these things at the cost of the country, just look at the debt and you will see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #59 December 23, 2007 Quote>>"What is truly shocking is that there are perhaps MILLIONS of people who will be helped by this (parents and children) and there are STILL people out there who are alleging corporate kickbacks and greed and abuse instead of looking at the large people it will help who TRULY need the help." Well I am democratic moderate of sorts but isn't it true that most bills, in order to pass must have provisions which appease both parties? The way I look at it laws should take a Jeremy Bentham style utilitarian approach,ie. the greatest good for the greatest number. Some of my liberal cohorts don't see this- but the same is true- as you point out for the righties when they don't get everything their way. But thats democracy- you aint gonna get everything you want. My point about the speed at which bills are passed- now that the U.S. govt. and the media seem not to be so bogged down with the war in Iraq , is that good bills- and news stories seem to be flowing out of Washington, It's probably just a perception thing. The darkness appears to be lifting... finally. Utilitarianism? Yea, nice concept, it breeds things like capital punishment. Utilitarianism defies the concept of the Constitution, which allegedly promotes individual liberty. The issue Dems have with the signed bill is that we are extremely sceptical of any bill that is signed by this garbage that is supposedly there to help the little guy, as he really hasn't signed any of those, has he? Can you list any bills directed at helping the little guy and not helping the rich in enormous ways? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #60 December 23, 2007 QuoteCan you list any bills directed at helping the little guy and not helping the rich in enormous ways?He reduced my taxes. Now, if we could get the Fair Tax enacted, all of the little guys who suck the system dry, would have to pay their fair share. Illegal aliens and foriegn tourists could balance the books. Do you have a problem with that, or are just a hater of the man who makes $1.00 more than you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #61 December 23, 2007 QuoteQuoteCan you list any bills directed at helping the little guy and not helping the rich in enormous ways?He reduced my taxes. Now, if we could get the Fair Tax enacted, all of the little guys who suck the system dry, would have to pay their fair share. Illegal aliens and foriegn tourists could balance the books. Do you have a problem with that, or are just a hater of the man who makes $1.00 more than you? He reduced your taxes a tiny amount while at the same time running up enormous debts on your behalf. You don't even realize you have been hoodwinked.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #62 December 24, 2007 >>>>>>He reduced my taxes. Right, Clinton raised them, the deficit was balanced and the debt started to get paid down a shade. 1 US Dollar = 1.55 Canadian dollar as Clnto left office, now we're lucky of they're equal, that is the effect of lowering your taxes; are good with that? >>>>>>>>>>Now, if we could get the Fair Tax enacted, all of the little guys who suck the system dry, would have to pay their fair share. Oh, the common person is the problem? Warren Buffet would contradict that, and it doesn't get much bigger than that. We are probably the only industrialized nation that has no socialized meds, as well as other social progs and you still want to chant that BS about the little guy not carrying his load? What a joke. >>>>>>>>>>>>>.Illegal aliens and foriegn tourists could balance the books. Do you have a problem with that, or are just a hater of the man who makes $1.00 more than you? I'm a hater of slime that has no problem with the class disparity that we do and still chants shit abou the little guy getting over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #63 December 24, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteCan you list any bills directed at helping the little guy and not helping the rich in enormous ways?He reduced my taxes. Now, if we could get the Fair Tax enacted, all of the little guys who suck the system dry, would have to pay their fair share. Illegal aliens and foriegn tourists could balance the books. Do you have a problem with that, or are just a hater of the man who makes $1.00 more than you? He reduced your taxes a tiny amount while at the same time running up enormous debts on your behalf. You don't even realize you have been hoodwinked. They're so lock-stepped that they can't even see around the guy in front of them..... kinda like sheep; nose to asshole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #64 December 24, 2007 Quote We are probably the only industrialized nation that has no socialized meds Oh I thought we were talking about the US... Hello, the US has had socialized meds for decades, and it's too expensive to maintain due to cost and demographic changes taking place and forecast to continue. What we don't have is universal health care coverage. Big difference.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #65 December 24, 2007 >>>>>>>>>>>Oh I thought we were talking about the US... Oh, we are. Simply comparing the US to the ret of the world is drawing a standard and comparing the US to it. Hint: The standard is the use of industrialized nations - often used. We can do this when talk about capital punishment, juvenile justice, taxes, military, etc. Those who wish to contain their arguments to a narrow microcosm usually do so for the purpose of concealing the truth. >>>>>>>>>>>>Hello, the US has had socialized meds for decades, Right, so Medicade and Medicare are socialized meds to you - BRILLIANT. Let me see, per your citations, who qualifies? ...covering people who are either age 65 and over, or who meet other special criteria....individuals are eligible for Medicare if they (or their spouse) worked for at least 10 years in Medicare-covered employment and are at least 65 years old and are a citizen or permanent resident of the United States of America. That's real socialiazed medicine, huh? Yea, we are tooooo socialized, we need to curtail those benefits and let people die, after all, personal repsonsibility, right? >>>>>>>>>>>and it's too expensive to maintain due to cost and demographic changes taking place and forecast to continue. Right, but the fact that we spend 45% of the world's total military expenditure means nothing, right? After all, they are all jealous and out to get us, right? Actually, if we include war funding we spent ~60% of the world's military budget, but socilaized meds are too expensive huh? BRILLIANT. Letme take this argumenbt out of your microcosm and put it ino context..... we are ~4 1/2% of the world's population, yet we are spending 45% of the world's military budget. We also have most millionaires here by a longshot and deprive 1 in 6 of basic healthcare. - just skip over these, hard to address for you - >>>>>>>>>>>>>What we don't have is universal health care coverage. Big difference. BIG SEMANTICS. In order for the Democratic canidates to get the hillbilly garbage to go along with socialized medicine, they call it universal healthcare. Once these rednecks tried soc meds, they would largely be hooked and the rightwing faction knows this so they use whatever language or tactics they can to quash it. SOCIALIZED MEDICINE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialized_medicine Socialized medicine or state medicine is a term used primarily in the United States to describe a public health care system that is controlled and financed by the government.[1] It can refer to any system of medical care that is largely both publicly financed and government administered or regulated. [2] [3] The term is narrowly used by some to describe a system where the government funds and manages health care by directly employing health care providers directly [4]. It has also been applied to systems where the government sets rules for private practices to provide treatment for re-imbursement by the state.[5] This extended portion is effectively the same as single payer health insurance, where the government finances health care but is uninvolved in delivery.[6] Examples of socialized medicine include such systems as the United States' Veterans Health Administration, the British National Health Service hospital trusts,[7][8] and the Cuban national health care system. [9][10] Most industrialized countries, and many developing countries, operate some form of socialized medicine, though the term is often used pejoratively in political discourse. [11] [12] See there, it's a term used as a derogatory name for political purpose. UNIVERSAL CARE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care Universal health care refers to government programs intended to ensure that all citizens, and sometimes permanent residents, of a governmental region have access to most types of health care. Patients may pay for some portion of their care directly, but most care is subsidized by taxpayers and/or by compulsory health insurance. So you can use whatever terminology you want, but the point is that we don't ensure our people are healthy as most/all indust nations do, instead we spend 550+B per year on basic military operations. So let's examine the issue/semantics poer you. You say: - Socialized medicine amounts to Medicare, Medicaide. - Universal care is were the gov ensures all have medicare coverage. Deduction: You then say that we currently have soc meds and it goes too far, too expensive. SO you want us to move away from a plan that so inferior in its coverage to that of the rest of the world that we are pittied by the rest of the indust world? Hmmmm, no mention of curtailing the military spending, must have been an ovesight, or you like that spending. Look, you can attach whatever political label you wish, but socialized meds is a cutting term to define mandatory spending to ensure everyone has healthcare coverage. Do you want to get into an arument about semantic labels or address spending vs healthcare needs of a nation? The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system.[1] The government directly covers a little over one-quarter of the population[8] through health care programs for the elderly, disabled, military service families and veterans, children, and the poor.[9] Federal law ensures public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay.[ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #66 December 24, 2007 QuoteSo you can use whatever terminology you want, but the point is that we don't ensure our people are healthy as most/all indust nations do, instead we spend 550+B per year on basic military operations. So if the govt were to tell us to quit smoking, ease up on the alcohol, and get off of your lazy ass and get some exercise, you'd be all over that, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #67 December 25, 2007 Quote We also...deprive 1 in 6 of basic health care. We don't deprive anyone of health care. You're depriving me of a Ferrari!My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #68 December 25, 2007 OR we can just get rid of the IRS and then income tax and not have to waste time with making blls like thisDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #69 December 25, 2007 > OR we can just get rid of the IRS . . . That makes as much sense as solving your credit card debt problems by burning all your credit card bills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #70 December 26, 2007 QuoteQuote Of course, if someone has used up $50k in credit card debt, and has that cancelled, then yes, I believe that the person SHOULD pay taxes on that. There really has been something tangible received for it. What if a person had $50K in credit card debt, did a cash-out refinance into an ARM, and then had the $50K forgiven when the ARM interest rate increased? What if a person spent $50K in cash on cars and consumer goods to avoid credit card debt, got a 100% ARM for the same house they would have bought living a less extravagant lifestyle, and had that $50K forgiven after they learned they shouldn't have done that? What if an otherwise frugal person spent $50K on housing more than they should have, couldn't make the payments after the teaser period, and had the $50K forgiven? Although the timing and mechanics of the financial mistakes vary in all four examples, it's the same over-spending problem which deserves the same treatment. Forgiven debt should be taxable income or not. I'd suggest that the lenders get the collateral (house) or proceeds from sale of goods purchased on credit ($0 in the case of non-durables like vacations), take a capital loss just as if they'd invested in the stock market instead of an individual, and there isn't any retroactive income. It doesn't hurt people who were just down on their luck, is fair, and doesn't cost much. I think I'm with Drew on this one. If someone used a mortgage to pay off credit card debts, and then didn't pay back the mortgage, the difference between what they got and what they gave back is income. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
